new Maroon Clownfish starving itself and spitting out all of its food for 8 or 9 days

[Jay Hemdal]

i was trying to follow what humblefish recommended on his site for brook which is half the recommended 500mg per 20g then ramped up to full dose after a few doses for 10 days atleast. If i read it right. There are still a few of the dots with tiny mucous bits on them tho so i dont know if i should keep dosing. it has reduced probably 90% since the video with the mucous sheets and like 75% since the picture with just the dots that you said looked more like ich after but vette thought bacterial. This is for the clown goby in the 3g. If i pull all he would likely join for the other treatments if still needed.

For the main tank do you think i should consider pulling them some point soon and doing hypo or copper with maybe metro food or should i just keep waiting and if so should i order the stuff for hypo and copper so i have it if i need to? the lemon damsel kinda looks like its missing scales or something which i guess would make sense from flashing.

The damsels are fighting, and that likely accounts for the missing scales and bedraggled look.

Skip metro in food unless you do it correctly:

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods Jay Hemdal c. 2020 Oral medications are an excellent way to target internal diseases of fishes. Marine fish absorb aquarium water, so in certain cases, they “drink” enough medication from the water to effect a cure. However, freshwater fish actively export...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[blazin'reefer]

The damsels are fighting, and that likely accounts for the missing scales and bedraggled look.

Skip metro in food unless you do it correctly:

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods Jay Hemdal c. 2020 Oral medications are an excellent way to target internal diseases of fishes. Marine fish absorb aquarium water, so in certain cases, they “drink” enough medication from the water to effect a cure. However, freshwater fish actively export...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

Thanks, there definitely is some fighting in the main 55 tank. Didnt think it was that bad since they have always been somewhat aggressive for the 2 years i have had them. but that could definitely be the cause for the missing scales. The lemon damsel is flashing alot though like the tang was before he died.

The clown goby in the 3g still had a few bigger mucous dots 2 days ago when i stopped metro (after 12 days of dosing ever 48h) have again turned back into the more ich looking dots and covered him head to fin again now so im not sure if metro really helped, if i stopped dosing early or if it was just progression of whatever it is re-infecting him. Still eatting a decent amount.

If it was ich would a clown goby flash obvious just like any other fish or is it more hard to tell since they swim weird to begin with? i am going to try and order salinity calibration solution so i can try hypo if needed to just nervous as i have never done it even after reading a bunch.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks, there definitely is some fighting in the main 55 tank. Didnt think it was that bad since they have always been somewhat aggressive for the 2 years i have had them. but that could definitely be the cause for the missing scales. The lemon damsel is flashing alot though like the tang was before he died.

The clown goby in the 3g still had a few bigger mucous dots 2 days ago when i stopped metro (after 12 days of dosing ever 48h) have again turned back into the more ich looking dots and covered him head to fin again now so im not sure if metro really helped, if i stopped dosing early or if it was just progression of whatever it is re-infecting him. Still eatting a decent amount.

If it was ich would a clown goby flash obvious just like any other fish or is it more hard to tell since they swim weird to begin with? i am going to try and order salinity calibration solution so i can try hypo if needed to just nervous as i have never done it even after reading a bunch.

Darn, that still looks like how that species shows ich. If it were my fish, I'd do a skin scrape and look at it under a microscope and know pretty quickly what the issue is.

Hypo is probably your best option as that controls ich and flukes.

Jay

 

[blazin'reefer]

Darn, that still looks like how that species shows ich. If it were my fish, I'd do a skin scrape and look at it under a microscope and know pretty quickly what the issue is.

Hypo is probably your best option as that controls ich and flukes.

Jay

the weirdest thing is that within 2 hours of taking that picture those dots were almost all impossible to see yet again except a couple. i do know ich has cycles but i dont know if they are that quick are they? Not sure if its his slime coat just making it hard to see inbetween the times i spot them or what the deal is but yeah i am trying to get the calibration solution asap so i can do hypo. Unfortunately no stores sell it near me though.

i do need to learn about the skin scraping and microscope when i get one. Just worried the fish would move and get stabbed accidentally. Is it difficult for someone who has never done them in your opinion? I started feeding him 2 times a day also to keep his immune system up aswell and hes eatting almost it all and looks fatter.

In the main 55 the talbot looks like it definitely has a bit more scales lost but its fins arent nipped too bad and still has the dots kinda. i do see the others take a bit of a swim at it like once every half hour or so. Would it be better for it if i moved it to the 3g with the clown goby or what point would i know its time forsure? Also if i did move it would they just pick the next smallest fish to go after?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

the weirdest thing is that within 2 hours of taking that picture those dots were almost all impossible to see yet again except a couple. i do know ich has cycles but i dont know if they are that quick are they? Not sure if its his slime coat just making it hard to see inbetween the times i spot them or what the deal is but yeah i am trying to get the calibration solution asap so i can do hypo. Unfortunately no stores sell it near me though.

i do need to learn about the skin scraping and microscope when i get one. Just worried the fish would move and get stabbed accidentally. Is it difficult for someone who has never done them in your opinion? I started feeding him 2 times a day also to keep his immune system up aswell and hes eatting almost it all and looks fatter.

In the main 55 the talbot looks like it definitely has a bit more scales lost but its fins arent nipped too bad and still has the dots kinda. i do see the others take a bit of a swim at it like once every half hour or so. Would it be better for it if i moved it to the 3g with the clown goby or what point would i know its time forsure? Also if i did move it would they just pick the next smallest fish to go after?

I wouldn’t move the talbots. Oddly, the green chromis seems fine. Those are a lot more peaceful than Talbots, so I can’t explain why some fish is picking on that and not the chromis!

 

[blazin'reefer]

I wouldn’t move the talbots. Oddly, the green chromis seems fine. Those are a lot more peaceful than Talbots, so I can’t explain why some fish is picking on that and not the chromis!

it is just one talbot, yeah the green chromis is actually one of the ones beating it up along with the yellow tail and mainly the lemon. I checked it again and now the other fish seem to have bit the clear covering of the talbot's one eye and its half hanging off now too but the black part underneath looks ok, the talbot is hiding more now though. is it possible for that to heal and what is the reason that you wouldnt move it? at this point i feel like they are going to kill it if i dont and the talbot i have has always been kinda passive so i dont think he would attack the clown goby especially being injured, or is it because of possible diseases?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

it is just one talbot, yeah the green chromis is actually one of the ones beating it up along with the yellow tail and mainly the lemon. I checked it again and now the other fish seem to have bit the clear covering of the talbot's one eye and its half hanging off now too but the black part underneath looks ok, the talbot is hiding more now though. is it possible for that to heal and what is the reason that you wouldnt move it? at this point i feel like they are going to kill it if i dont and the talbot i have has always been kinda passive so i dont think he would attack the clown goby especially being injured, or is it because of possible diseases?

Well, if the talbots is getting more damaged, you'll need to either move it, or drop in a tank divider.

Moving fish always brings with it some risk. You can damage a fish by chasing it around, the new tank might not be established properly, etc.

 

[blazin'reefer]

Well, if the talbots is getting more damaged, you'll need to either move it, or drop in a tank divider.

Moving fish always brings with it some risk. You can damage a fish by chasing it around, the new tank might not be established properly, etc.

i tried catching him 2 times this morning for about 5-10 minutes at a time until it went under the big rock both times and hid there so i have given up for now so i dont make it worse. I wonder if the lemon damsel started getting more aggressive due to the fact i stopped the nori and algae wafers after the tang died and he would spend most of the day eatting those. I re-added them today and so far it seems the talbot is getting less attacks right now as the lemon is preoccupied for the most part. I also looked online for 55g tank dividers in my city and no where has them in stock either of course. I ordered "plastic binding slide bars for office report" on prime and will make my own dividers with them, plastic mesh and suction cups based off youtube videos. I can also use it as an acclimation box dividing the tank in the future for new fish. Hopefully the talbot survives until i can get them made in a few days or so.

 

[blazin'reefer]

heres another update, the main 55 the talbot has almost fully healed including its eye that was half hanging from its head so thats good. The lemon damsel is still flashing and is quite aggressive being the biggest now and the yellowtail seems to be the current main victim taking the brunt of the attacks with a few nipped fins but seems to dodge most of the attacks and seems relatively ok. I do see one black dot on the lemon but its been there a couple weeks and hasnt moved. The chromis looks skinny aswell despite eatting more than it ever has but no white stringy poo or anything.

The 3g i have been seeing the dots still on and off on the clown goby and am getting the salinity calibration solution and a new ph meter asap, hopefully relatively soon so i can potentially attempt hypo but in the meantime i have been adding a tiny amount of hydrogen peroxide to the tank every few days to hopefully give me a bit more time. It seems that 5 hours after dosing the h2o2 (half dose of 1ml per 8g) the goby freaks out swimming all over really fast and breathing a bit fast and sometimes laying on his side for a few minutes which lasts for a couple hours which is the reason i havent been following dosing instuctions in frequency for that, that and not having tests. One weird thing is if it is ich i havent really seen him flash or breath really heavy at all before the h2o2 was first dosed.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

heres another update, the main 55 the talbot has almost fully healed including its eye that was half hanging from its head so thats good. The lemon damsel is still flashing and is quite aggressive being the biggest now and the yellowtail seems to be the current main victim taking the brunt of the attacks with a few nipped fins but seems to dodge most of the attacks and seems relatively ok. I do see one black dot on the lemon but its been there a couple weeks and hasnt moved. The chromis looks skinny aswell despite eatting more than it ever has but no white stringy poo or anything.

The 3g i have been seeing the dots still on and off on the clown goby and am getting the salinity calibration solution and a new ph meter asap, hopefully relatively soon so i can potentially attempt hypo but in the meantime i have been adding a tiny amount of hydrogen peroxide to the tank every few days to hopefully give me a bit more time. It seems that 5 hours after dosing the h2o2 (half dose of 1ml per 8g) the goby freaks out swimming all over really fast and breathing a bit fast and sometimes laying on his side for a few minutes which lasts for a couple hours which is the reason i havent been following dosing instuctions in frequency for that, that and not having tests. One weird thing is if it is ich i havent really seen him flash or breath really heavy at all before the h2o2 was first dosed.

Flashing and rapid breathing are not common symptoms of ich so the goby not doing that doesn't rule out ich.

Jay

 

[blazin'reefer]

Flashing and rapid breathing are not common symptoms of ich so the goby not doing that doesn't rule out ich.

Jay

i have read on a few places gobies can be sensitive to hypo, are clown gobies able to handle it?

If he doesnt die before i am able to try hypo does the size of tank matter? it would be much easier to use a small gallon or 2 bowl with a tiny power filter for only one fish.

 

[blazin'reefer]

i might try to get kanaplex or ruby rally pro aswell incase hypo didnt work but cant decide since they arent cheap to get in canada off amazon US so i have been holding off so far.

 

[blazin'reefer]

the dots seem to look kinda stringy again today aswell, and he spends 80% of the day on the glass near the surface but still eatting decent. maybe it is the gobies mucous slime expelling from from the wounds if it is ich biting it? sorry for the blue blurry pics but you can see the dots now looking stringy again but will probably clear in the next day or couple again.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

i have read on a few places gobies can be sensitive to hypo, are clown gobies able to handle it?

If he doesnt die before i am able to try hypo does the size of tank matter? it would be much easier to use a small gallon or 2 bowl with a tiny power filter for only one fish.

Gobies handle hypo fine.

Using a small tank means that the water quality is going to be tough to manage unless you use an established bio filter.

The pics you posted just aren't clear enough for me to make any further diagnosis.....

 

[blazin'reefer]

Gobies handle hypo fine.

Using a small tank means that the water quality is going to be tough to manage unless you use an established bio filter.

The pics you posted just aren't clear enough for me to make any further diagnosis.....

thanks again. whenever i do hypo if i do I might just use a 5g tank then and start half full and slowly add water over 48 or 72h until its 1.09 then. Are ammonia alerts still necessarily if i leave filter media in the 3g tank before so it has bacteria?

I ordered tropic eden salinity calibration solution that has a 0ppt and 35ppt and ph calibration solution aswell as a new ph meter. i recieved it all except for the ph meter which should hopefully be here in a week or 2.

Basically to try to explain what i have been seeing the clown goby starts with the ich looking dots, then a few days later they all look much bigger and some slightly stringy (but not as bad as when it was in the big tank with the youtube video that looked like what you called mucous sheets) and they also kinda move around in the flow during this stage. They then disappear almost entirely a few days later leaving the fish 95-100% clear of symptoms for either hours up to a week before it repeats. Does this still sound like the ich lifecycle in your view? just trying to make sure before i potentially do hypo.

This cycle has been going on for over 3 months now continually and the fish honestly doesnt seem much worse over this 3 months, theres no way it could just be something benign and just slightly annoying to it but not that harmful, right? Here is him today during the ich looking dots phase of it, in the last pic with white light you can kinda see how the get bigger if you look at his body.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

thanks again. whenever i do hypo if i do I might just use a 5g tank then and start half full and slowly add water over 48 or 72h until its 1.09 then. Are ammonia alerts still necessarily if i leave filter media in the 3g tank before so it has bacteria?

I ordered tropic eden salinity calibration solution that has a 0ppt and 35ppt and ph calibration solution aswell as a new ph meter. i recieved it all except for the ph meter which should hopefully be here in a week or 2.

Basically to try to explain what i have been seeing the clown goby starts with the ich looking dots, then a few days later they all look much bigger and some slightly stringy (but not as bad as when it was in the big tank with the youtube video that looked like what you called mucous sheets) and they also kinda move around in the flow during this stage. They then disappear almost entirely a few days later leaving the fish 95-100% clear of symptoms for either hours up to a week before it repeats. Does this still sound like the ich lifecycle in your view? just trying to make sure before i potentially do hypo.

This cycle has been going on for over 3 months now continually and the fish honestly doesnt seem much worse over this 3 months, theres no way it could just be something benign and just slightly annoying to it but not that harmful, right? Here is him today during the ich looking dots phase of it, in the last pic with white light you can kinda see how the get bigger if you look at his body.

The differential diagnosis here would be mucus plugs. However, it still looks like ich to me. The only thing that is odd is the fish managing the infection for so long - typically, ich spots will come and go a few times, but then come back with a vengeance and take the fish out at some point.

 

[blazin'reefer]

The differential diagnosis here would be mucus plugs. However, it still looks like ich to me. The only thing that is odd is the fish managing the infection for so long - typically, ich spots will come and go a few times, but then come back with a vengeance and take the fish out at some point.

thanks again jay. Over the last week or 2 i am now wondering if i am reaching that point of if it is ich it may take the clown goby out soon, i havent seen his body clear of the dots at all over that time period and it looks like theres more than ever, plus when i tried to feed the last 2 or 3 days he is now spitting like all the food out almost, and barely chasing it down either. Food that he was eatting fine before. I tried doing a 15% water change and changed the carbon.

My new ph meter still isnt here yet though it is suppose to be here soon..

Question-
Since he seems to now be getting possibly worse again, if he doesnt eat the next feeding should i just try and start hypo without the ph meter and then check when it gets here and adjust then if he lives to that point? I do have a old ph meter but it isnt accurate and continually moves up the longer it is in whatever i am testing. I also dont have a ammonia alert right now and only an expired ammonia test but plan to take the filter pads and some small rocks from the 3g he is in. He also sleeps right by the intake or output of the flow at the top of the tank every night now.

also another sad note my disabled watchman goby in the 55 died from what i assume was either an internal tumor or maybe accites or whatever its called where fluid builds up around organs, he was bloated for a few weeks and it got worse and worse until he stopped eatting and died a few days later. Atleast he lived a relatively long life at about 4 years.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

thanks again jay. Over the last week or 2 i am now wondering if i am reaching that point of if it is ich it may take the clown goby out soon, i havent seen his body clear of the dots at all over that time period and it looks like theres more than ever, plus when i tried to feed the last 2 or 3 days he is now spitting like all the food out almost, and barely chasing it down either. Food that he was eatting fine before. I tried doing a 15% water change and changed the carbon.

My new ph meter still isnt here yet though it is suppose to be here soon..

Question-
Since he seems to now be getting possibly worse again, if he doesnt eat the next feeding should i just try and start hypo without the ph meter and then check when it gets here and adjust then if he lives to that point? I do have a old ph meter but it isnt accurate and continually moves up the longer it is in whatever i am testing. I also dont have a ammonia alert right now and only an expired ammonia test but plan to take the filter pads and some small rocks from the 3g he is in. He also sleeps right by the intake or output of the flow at the top of the tank every night now.

also another sad note my disabled watchman goby in the 55 died from what i assume was either an internal tumor or maybe accites or whatever its called where fluid builds up around organs, he was bloated for a few weeks and it got worse and worse until he stopped eatting and died a few days later. Atleast he lived a relatively long life at about 4 years.

Oh - I didn't understand that you were waiting to do the hypo treatment to get a pH meter. You don't need that at the start of a hypo treatment, it is only something that you might want to check later on during hypo, as the pH tends to drop a bit during this sort of treatment. The only device that you need to start hypo is a good specific gravity meter. If you have two devices, you can use them to check each other. I find that a swing arm hydrometer works well.

You should start hypo ASAP!

 

[blazin'reefer]

Oh - I didn't understand that you were waiting to do the hypo treatment to get a pH meter. You don't need that at the start of a hypo treatment, it is only something that you might want to check later on during hypo, as the pH tends to drop a bit during this sort of treatment. The only device that you need to start hypo is a good specific gravity meter. If you have two devices, you can use them to check each other. I find that a swing arm hydrometer works well.

You should start hypo ASAP!

yeah i was waiting for the ph meter i thought i needed it during the whole treatment. I have a refractomer and calibration solution now. i am trying now, unfortunately the worst case scenario happened and when i was trying to lift the rockwork out so i could catch him it broke and part of it may have fell on the goby now aswell. He is still alive and still put up a bit of a chase afterwords to catch him and is now in the 5g that im slowly filling up with normal saltwater after using mostly 3g display water and will soon add fresh water in increments if he is still alive but his mouth is also stuck open now after the possible physical trauma aswell as fins looking torn up so idk if i will be able to get him to eat and if it will heal or not. he is still sitting upright at the bottom and moving around a small amount doesnt appear to be breathing fast right now (about 2 hours after this all took place) any suggestions at this point? Not holding much faith in him surviving at this point but im still trying.

 

[Baby Damsel 219]

Looks brightly colored. Would not be too worried. Turn off the lights to lower the stress level. Add an air stone and feed flake not frozen. if it's breathing heavily then might be a little worried.