New Setup, Cycling Tank, Multiple Questions

[Jefdav84]

Brand new to the Saltwater side of things, and wanted to go ahead and give my set up. All tips, suggestions, assistance of any kind is welcome. Look forward to the journey

Brief introduction to my setup. I may of jumped the gun a bit on my setup, so will try and make the best of what I have. I basically wanted a fairly simple setup as a beginner so the first person i talked to at my LFS gave me suggestions based on simple set up, and this is what I ended up with.

40 pound of live rock, and water from my LFS is when i started actually doing real internet research. At this point I honestly had no idea what a sump was, and after doing research it appears that the stand that I currently have is not big enough to have one.

Marine land 60 gallon - with the generic particle board stand
Tank: 12.75 in L x 48.5 in W x 25 in H
Stand: 14.25 in L x 50 in W x 30 in H

2x - SunSun JVP 800 GPH power heads

Marine land penguin 350 (Ended up returning and getting a cascade 1000 canister) Once again after researching further it was said that canisters can be a nightmare to deal with.

300w ViaAqua Heater


At this point I am not sure what to do. There is no room for sump, but wanted to know if I should go the HOB filter route, and if so what would be the best to get? I have seen Aqua Clear, Marine land, Tidal all mentioned, but no real clear answer on what would be most efficient. I have seen some do regular media filtration, and then some that do a DIY project on the AC to make it in to a FUGE. At this point just want to make the best out of this set up for now.

After i put in my 40 pound of live rock and water from my LFS is when i started actually doing real internet research. At this point I honestly had no idea what a sump was, and after doing research it appears that the stand that I currently have is not big enough to have one.


Tank has been cycling for a little over 3 weeks now. I have live rock (35-40lbs) , live sand, 1 bottle of Dr Tim's one and only. Also added in 3 snails recently.

Ammonia - Only got up to about 1.00 ppm from what i could tell
Nitrite - 0.25 tops
Nitrates - Seems to of never got over 0 ppm, but possibly could of hit that next shade of yellow for the 5.0 ppm.
PH - Hovering in that 8.0 to 8.2 range

As of the water right now all of my levels are all 0 ppm, so does this mean the tank has cycled? Obviously I want to sort of get this filtering situation figured out before adding a fish in. Also if there are any tips or suggestions on going to this next phase then let me know.

Thanks

 

[brandon429]

that sounds like a skip cycle tank using Group B rocks, see here:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-microbiology-of-reef-tank-cycling.214618/


true live rock has animals on it you can see without a test kit.

From the presence of those animals and pigments, we know if your rocks were live or not. If they were, they don't need time in the new place to build up bac, they show up ready we show. Just like a marine aquarium conventions where nobody has more than 1 day to set up a 40,000$ reef tank, and it always works, at every convention. skip cycle does occur, its not a fluke, and parts of our industry depend on it.
Post pics of your tank if you will, we w include it in the umpire section


filtering wont matter its a custom choice

 

[BeejReef]

I have no experience with them, but many run canister filters with no problem.

That said, it's still not too late to convert to a sumped design if you have strong feelings.
You say you've filled it with water and rock, so you have an appreciation for how heavy and permanent it can be

If you want to make changes, you can still drain and store your rocks in a bucket or trash can w water. There's no coral or fish, so last chance to ship or get off the pot!

What's the issue with your stand? Do you have a pic of it? Why is it "too small?"
Is this it? https://www.petsmart.com/fish/tanks...eartland-led-aquarium-with-stand-5248474.html

http://www.kernsanalysis.com/TankSize.html

As u can see, there are plenty of tanks that would fit in that stand that could be purposed into sumps. U may have to knock out some shelves.

I'll be the first to admit that drilling a tank, designing an overflow and a return isn't the easiest thing in the world. BUT, it's not the hardest either. It's also not cheap.... $200-$300.

IMHO, you're really kind of in between with that tank size (same as mine btw). Too big for HOB to be simple and easy, too small for a sump to be a must have.

What are your longer-term goals for the tank. What would you like to accomplish with it?

 

[Salty Lemon]

So you have a 60 gallon tank -- nice. Congratulations!

1. I'd worry more about a HOB Protein skimmer vs a HOB Sump. They are ugly to look at, but a protein skimmer really cleans up the tank. A new one will cause lots of foam for a week or two. So keep a close eye on it and keep towels nearby.
2. Canister filters aren't a problem. I used them on my old tank. You just need to do a quick rinse out every month so that the nitrates don't build up.
3. If your live rock was actually live rock, it would have been wet when you bought it from the store -- was it? Many stores/online also have various rock that is generally purple that is sprayed with bacteria to get your tank started. Many call that live rock too. It arrives dry. It is not the same thing and you will still need to cycle the tank. Your nitrates will go sky-high before your tank finishes cycling. If it hasn't jumped way up yet, you still have a couple weeks.
4. Sumps are awesome and useful. But I would live on the cautious side and go with what you already have. You can get your sump when you get your next tank in a few years. (It always works that way. )

 

[lapin]

Howdy

Here are some dimensions of tanks . Maybe you can make one of these in the 20 to 30 gallons size work for you. You need only 2 chambers, one for the return pump and one for everything else.
http://www.aquariumdimensions.com/

 

[BadFish619]

Welcome to R2R!

 

[Tiger Brown]

So you have a 60 gallon tank -- nice. Congratulations!

1. I'd worry more about a HOB Protein skimmer vs a HOB Sump. They are ugly to look at, but a protein skimmer really cleans up the tank. A new one will cause lots of foam for a week or two. So keep a close eye on it and keep towels nearby.
2. Canister filters aren't a problem. I used them on my old tank. You just need to do a quick rinse out every month so that the nitrates don't build up.
3. If your live rock was actually live rock, it would have been wet when you bought it from the store -- was it? Many stores/online also have various rock that is generally purple that is sprayed with bacteria to get your tank started. Many call that live rock too. It arrives dry. It is not the same thing and you will still need to cycle the tank. Your nitrates will go sky-high before your tank finishes cycling. If it hasn't jumped way up yet, you still have a couple weeks.
4. Sumps are awesome and useful. But I would live on the cautious side and go with what you already have. You can get your sump when you get your next tank in a few years. (It always works that way. )

Man, Salty Lemon is spot on with the advice. I use a canister, by necessity more than desire, but it works quite well, and I change it out every 3 weeks which is fairly labor intensive, but I actually enjoy tank maintenance quite a bit.

Be careful about the cycling, as Lemon said, it really will depend on if your rock is truly "live". You should still see the Nitrites and then the Nitrates rise during the cycle. I cycled mine with live rock and ammonia drops and it still took a few weeks. I also dumped in Bio-Spira as well.

Oh and a big plus one on the value of a protein skimmer! Good luck and welcome!!!!!

 

[Jefdav84]

So you have a 60 gallon tank -- nice. Congratulations!

1. I'd worry more about a HOB Protein skimmer vs a HOB Sump. They are ugly to look at, but a protein skimmer really cleans up the tank. A new one will cause lots of foam for a week or two. So keep a close eye on it and keep towels nearby.
2. Canister filters aren't a problem. I used them on my old tank. You just need to do a quick rinse out every month so that the nitrates don't build up.
3. If your live rock was actually live rock, it would have been wet when you bought it from the store -- was it? Many stores/online also have various rock that is generally purple that is sprayed with bacteria to get your tank started. Many call that live rock too. It arrives dry. It is not the same thing and you will still need to cycle the tank. Your nitrates will go sky-high before your tank finishes cycling. If it hasn't jumped way up yet, you still have a couple weeks.
4. Sumps are awesome and useful. But I would live on the cautious side and go with what you already have. You can get your sump when you get your next tank in a few years. (It always works that way. )

Thanks for the info

1) Any suggestions on a protein skimmer to look at? Ive seen they range in prices all the way from $20 - $250 for a HOB skimmer

3) Yes all of my rock was live, and bought at my LFS. Brought it home in wet newspaper. I have already seen some rock decay, possible aiptasia growing , and also 2 possible Majano's.

 

[Salty Lemon]

Thanks for the info

1) Any suggestions on a protein skimmer to look at? Ive seen they range in prices all the way from $20 - $250 for a HOB skimmer

3) Yes all of my rock was live, and bought at my LFS. Brought it home in wet newspaper. I have already seen some rock decay, possible aiptasia growing , and also 2 possible Majano's.

I have always had Reef Octopus skimmers -- so I am not a good person to offer comparisons. They work great and are a decent quality. Hopefully others on here have other suggestions.

 

[LiveWire]

Welcome to the REEF!! I hope you got all the info that you were looking for with the excellent replies from the members here at the REEF.

 

[Reef-junky]

How big is the inside of the stand? You probably could fit at least a 10 gallon sump in there. If it wasn’t to late I would say get a 40 breeder or 75 gallon tank. What type of tank are you trying to have (fish only or a reef)?

 

[WMR]

Welcome to R2R! The fish & reefing community that’s on here are the best! You don’t have to look anywhere else

 

[Jefdav84]

Man, Salty Lemon is spot on with the advice. I use a canister, by necessity more than desire, but it works quite well, and I change it out every 3 weeks which is fairly labor intensive, but I actually enjoy tank maintenance quite a bit.

Be careful about the cycling, as Lemon said, it really will depend on if your rock is truly "live". You should still see the Nitrites and then the Nitrates rise during the cycle. I cycled mine with live rock and ammonia drops and it still took a few weeks. I also dumped in Bio-Spira as well.

Oh and a big plus one on the value of a protein skimmer! Good luck and welcome!!!!!

Any suggestions on

that sounds like a skip cycle tank using Group B rocks, see here:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-microbiology-of-reef-tank-cycling.214618/


true live rock has animals on it you can see without a test kit.

From the presence of those animals and pigments, we know if your rocks were live or not. If they were, they don't need time in the new place to build up bac, they show up ready we show. Just like a marine aquarium conventions where nobody has more than 1 day to set up a 40,000$ reef tank, and it always works, at every convention. skip cycle does occur, its not a fluke, and parts of our industry depend on it.
Post pics of your tank if you will, we w include it in the umpire section


filtering wont matter its a custom choice

Thanks for sharing that link it was very helpful. I do indeed have the Group B rock. Bought at LFS, and it was wrapped in newspaper and same container. Within a week i did have a few things blossom out. I think i had two Majano's, and possibly currently have a few little pieces of aiptasia. I am not sure on that but I am going to try and upload some pics in a few for identification.

 

[Jefdav84]

Everything is a bit cluttered right now with the tank but here is it's current state as of right now.

 

[Jefdav84]

For those of you that asked about the stand size, and my questioning of a sump. 10 inches is about all i got width wise to put one under there. My guess is I would need something in the 8-9 inch range to even be able to do it. All i could really find with an 8" width was a 5 gallon tank. Not sure if that is even worth it, but I am interested to hear everyone's thoughts

 

[brandon429]

Jef that's a clean nice cloudless system it looks sharp. It's helpful for our cycling readers to see you quickly link the shipping details of the rock, the pigments and life forms it has on it to know cycle is done and we're on to next step in a second.

That's rare, that's ideal. Most cycling today is raw hesitation until a nitrite test seems to hopefully partially agree, but that's not in our thread

You've linked benthic animal presence to nitrifying bacteria presence and that's accurate. Your tank is ready for ten tang fish immediately really though the rocks are nice and not algae invaded, someone kept those clean so far

 

[BeejReef]

For those of you that asked about the stand size, and my questioning of a sump. 10 inches is about all i got width wise to put one under there. My guess is I would need something in the 8-9 inch range to even be able to do it. All i could really find with an 8" width was a 5 gallon tank. Not sure if that is even worth it, but I am interested to hear everyone's thoughts

Canister sure seems to fit nicely. No reason it can't work unless u have specialized plans for the tank.

At that width, even w a custom sump, it could be challenging to fit a skimmer

 

[Reef-junky]

The only thing he could do sump wise would be to connect 2 or 3 five gallon tanks I doubt a skimmer would fit in such small tanks. The canister may be the way to go. To bad you couldn’t find a narrow long tote or something.