Newbie: Overflow Water Level / Sump

[Scooter.B]

John, I drilled two return holes in the back of my tank, high as possible just so the bulkhead fit with a bit of working room.
From the bulkhead, I used 2 separate lines of 3/4 Loc Line to 1"or 1 3/4" flare.
(Forget exact flare size) it works great.
Note: instead of ball valves, it used gate valves for better control.

 

[Sarah24!]

I made mine just about an inch below the overflow gates and it’s very quiet. The further the water drops the loader it will be. Not a huge fan of this, but tou can also get a 2 inch thick phone and cut it to fit in the overflow. It should sit right below the overflow gates, but you should make a hole around the top where siphon hole is or simply extend it within respect to what it is with out the foam in there. The down side is you have to wash them about every two weeks or weekly. But they work, temporarily, I only used mine until my tank cycled.

 

[johnbr]

I missed the second pipe in the overflow being the return line. You would need a durso if you only have one drain. Definitely let us know how it turns out.

Had mine durso, now it's herbie...LOVE IT! Worth making both of those drain lines and plumbing return over back!!

Got mine installed today. Durso I guess. Is dead silent now. To drill more lines in the tank is impossible. The tank is completely filled that I can't even move it.

The issue now is in the SUMP right were the water comes from the tank is super turbulent now. The filter sock is not even filled of water.



So weird.

 

[Sarah24!]

Extended some piping into the water and it will make that quiet. I did that on mine. Cut maybe five inch or six long one inch pipe. Don’t glue them in and that turbulence will quiet down.

 

[johnbr]

Extended some piping into the water and it will make that quiet. I did that on mine.

I have that already. It came already connect with the sump from factory.

 

[Sarah24!]

I have that already. It came already connect with the sump from factory.

It just looks like where your black fitting are there are no pipes going below just above. How long is the pipe going into the sump fixture? Is it possible to take a pic. Here is a pic of mine where you can see the pipes going into the sump, but then I added another 8 inch by inch pipe below. It sits about 2 inches above the bottom of the sump. That will quiete it down.

 

[johnbr]

It just looks like where your black fitting are there are no pipes going below just above. How long is the pipe going into the sump fixture? Is it possible to take a pic.

I will try.

Here's how I did the Durso

To long? The hole on the top, was it correctly done? Dude bigger tank are so hard to set up.

Also, my Vectra is not even half of the power. Should I increase that?

 

[johnbr]

How long is the pipe going into the sump fixture? Is it possible to take a pic.

The pipe has about 6" - 8"

 

[Matthew Frost]

Does the water level in the overflow fluctuate at all? Your still pulling a lot of air through that drain. That turbulence in your sump is big air bubbles.

 

[Matthew Frost]

I will try.

Here's how I did the Durso

To long? The hole on the top, was it correctly done? Dude bigger tank are so hard to set up.

Also, my Vectra is not even half of the power. Should I increase that?

This looks spot on. We just need to dial it in.

 

[johnbr]

Does the water level in the overflow fluctuate at all? Your still pulling a lot of air through that drain. That turbulence in your sump is big air bubbles.

No Matt I don't see it fluctuating. I noticed that when I put my finger over the cap in the durso the water level drops and the bubbles stop. As soon I remove my finger it starts again.

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

Maybe try putting an air valve on the intake hose into the top of your durso. I have seen people use those to be able to "dial" in the durso for flow and noise.

 

[johnbr]

Does the water level in the overflow fluctuate at all?

Matt just took a closer look and YES you were right the water fluctuates a little bit in the overflow every time that air sucks in the durso.

Maybe try putting an air valve on the intake hose into the top of your durso. I have seen people use those to be able to "dial" in the durso for flow and noise.

Should I make a bigger hole? Cut the pipes? Elevate the 90 degree elbow?

I just can;t figure this out guys. I was super excited to start cycling.

 

[Matthew Frost]

OK, what's happening is that durso is trying to go full siphon to keep up with you return pump and it can't because its getting air behind it. You have two choices: one, if the hole in the top of the durso and let it go full siphon. I wouldn't recommend only having one drain and running it full siphon. The second is to dial back your return pump until it normalizes with the hole in the top. The water should "normalize" right about the middle of the bend/inlet in the pipe. Sorry this is just tough to explain this way.

 

[Scooter.B]

I would adjust your pump before you start cutting off or making something larger.
Start with what is controllable without having to make modifications. PUMP control and air flow in the durso. Start there.

 

[TaylorPilot]

The problem is that you have allot of water and air mixing in the pipe and shooting out the bottom of the pipe at a decent velocity. As the water goes down, it is drawing air in to that small hole in top of the durso. There isn't anywhere for that air to go but down and out the bottom. There are a few things you can do that we use to do back in the day before everyone was running siphon lines. First, put a T right above the bulkhead, then add a decent length of pipe going up to another cap with a hole in it, to make what looks like another durso. This way some of that air can escape out of the top of that cap. Next, I see your sump has two bulkheads in it. You can split the line before going into the sump bulkheads and run two identical lines down into the sump. This will slow the velocity of the water down by half, so more of the air has a chance to escape out the top. Finally, after the bulkheads inside the sump, put adapters on the bulkheads, making the line the largest plumbing size you can fit, 2" or better if you can. Then run that line down close to the bottom of the sump. What this does is slow the water down even further, letting more and more air escape through the top of the two pipes coming out the top of the bulkheads. One word of caution though, if something gets stuck in either one of those drains after the sump bulkheads, the back pressure will probably push water up and out the pipe. You can route that vent over the top of the sump just in case, so even if it does get a clog, it will drain into the sump. This all shouldn't cost more than $10-15, and could be done pretty easily. Other than these few things, there isn't much you can do to quiet it down. The mechanism requires it to suck in the air. If it didn't, it would suck in more water instead, causing a siphon, drawing the water down very fast, then sucking air when the water level dropped, breaking the siphon. Doing this over and over. Also, you don't have to have the return go through the back of the glass. Honestly from a functional stand point, it is probably better that it doesn't. If you are worried about aesthetics, you can get black pvc and fittings, and buy a few line loc fittings. I would probably split that much flow up over two line locs anyways. Google furniture grade PVC. If you do it right, you probably wouldn't ever notice it. I know it is a pain, but I would seriously consider converting it to a herbie before adding livestock. Find a few clean containers and hold as much of the water as possible. Those brute trash cans work great for this stuff. We all use them for storing and doing water changes. Odds are you'll end up with a few anyways. A few days of inconvenience vs having to deal with loud drains for the rest of the tanks life is a no-brainer in my book. HTH

 

[johnbr]

OK, what's happening is that durso is trying to go full siphon to keep up with you return pump and it can't because its getting air behind it. You have two choices: one, if the hole in the top of the durso and let it go full siphon. I wouldn't recommend only having one drain and running it full siphon. The second is to dial back your return pump until it normalizes with the hole in the top. The water should "normalize" right about the middle of the bend/inlet in the pipe. Sorry this is just tough to explain this way.

So in order for the water level to go lower in the overflow box to reach the half of the 90 degree inlet I would have to increase the pump speed? If I do so the water level in the pump chamber will be below the recommend level and the will start to pull air.

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

@Matthew Frost is saying to decrease the pump speed.

 

[Matthew Frost]

So in order for the water level to go lower in the overflow box to reach the half of the 90 degree inlet I would have to increase the pump speed? If I do so the water level in the pump chamber will be below the recommend level and the will start to pull air.

No, decrease the pump speed. Start with that pump at the lowest possible speed.

 

[johnbr]

I would adjust your pump before you start cutting off or making something larger.
Start with what is controllable without having to make modifications. PUMP control and air flow in the durso. Start there.

I can try that to.

The problem is that you have allot of water and air mixing in the pipe and shooting out the bottom of the pipe at a decent velocity. As the water goes down, it is drawing air in to that small hole in top of the durso. There isn't anywhere for that air to go but down and out the bottom. There are a few things you can do that we use to do back in the day before everyone was running siphon lines. First, put a T right above the bulkhead, then add a decent length of pipe going up to another cap with a hole in it, to make what looks like another durso. This way some of that air can escape out of the top of that cap. Next, I see your sump has two bulkheads in it. You can split the line before going into the sump bulkheads and run two identical lines down into the sump. This will slow the velocity of the water down by half, so more of the air has a chance to escape out the top. Finally, after the bulkheads inside the sump, put adapters on the bulkheads, making the line the largest plumbing size you can fit, 2" or better if you can. Then run that line down close to the bottom of the sump. What this does is slow the water down even further, letting more and more air escape through the top of the two pipes coming out the top of the bulkheads. One word of caution though, if something gets stuck in either one of those drains after the sump bulkheads, the back pressure will probably push water up and out the pipe. You can route that vent over the top of the sump just in case, so even if it does get a clog, it will drain into the sump. This all shouldn't cost more than $10-15, and could be done pretty easily. Other than these few things, there isn't much you can do to quiet it down. The mechanism requires it to suck in the air. If it didn't, it would suck in more water instead, causing a siphon, drawing the water down very fast, then sucking air when the water level dropped, breaking the siphon. Doing this over and over. Also, you don't have to have the return go through the back of the glass. Honestly from a functional stand point, it is probably better that it doesn't. If you are worried about aesthetics, you can get black pvc and fittings, and buy a few line loc fittings. I would probably split that much flow up over two line locs anyways. Google furniture grade PVC. If you do it right, you probably wouldn't ever notice it. I know it is a pain, but I would seriously consider converting it to a herbie before adding livestock. Find a few clean containers and hold as much of the water as possible. Those brute trash cans work great for this stuff. We all use them for storing and doing water changes. Odds are you'll end up with a few anyways. A few days of inconvenience vs having to deal with loud drains for the rest of the tanks life is a no-brainer in my book. HTH

So, let me see if I got this. First I remove the durso and add another T in the bottom of it another 90 degree and more pipe aim the top of the overflow? Second I can remove that pipe in the sump bulk head add another T e run another pipe to the second bulk head and make 2 drains. That's it?