Newbie Reefer - First Cycle - Some Questions

[r33fermaddness]

Hey all, I’m not sure if this thread was better posted here or the chemistry forum so I apologize in advance if it’s not in the right place.

So I finished my 90g build earlier this month and started cycling on the 8th. I decided to use Red Sea’s Reef Mature Starter Kit and I have some questions, as things aren’t where they should be according to the kit’s instructions.

Let me preface this: I’m not trying to come off impatient, I’m completely willing to wait however long I need for this to happen - I’m just trying to clear up some inconsistencies between my tank and the starter kit.

For those unfamiliar: the Red Sea mature kit is a carbon dosing system. It comes with Nitro Bac which is a blend of bottle bacteria, Bacto Start which I’m unsure of what exactly it is, it’s labeled as a bacteria starter complex, NoPoX, which I’ve come to understand is a carbon source in the form of methanol for bacteria food, and KH Coralline Gro which is a KH buffer. Note, this is my best understanding of the kit as an inexperienced reefer, if anyone has more insight into this I welcome more information. I’ve read up a bit on carbon dosing and have a decent understanding of it.

I started with a 90g DT with about 84g + dry rock, a 25g sump holding about 11g, a Reef Octopus skimmer, heaters, ATO, couple pieces of dry rock, filter sock, and an aquamesh filter pad to eliminate micro bubbles.

Now I’ve been following the instructions of the kit to the letter with the exception of using much of the KH buffer; I’m using Instant Ocean Reef Crystals which is keeping my water’s KH at 10-11 and the kit says to add the buffer to achieve KH of 8.4. I had a weird dip in KH a little less than a week of running, but after the kit’s scheduled 5% water change on day 7, the KH has stayed between 10-11.

I’m currently on day 12 in the kit’s schedule, and this is where the inconsistencies are starting. Day 10, I was instructed to test Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate, with them testing 0, 0, and 10ppm respectively. My water was nowhere near that, reading 1, .5, and 20ppm respectively. On day 10 the kit also instructed that I add some cleanup crew at that point, as it had mentioned at day 6 I should start seeing some algae start to bloom. I did have a bloom occur a day or so after I did the water change on day 7, but it went away in a couple days and I haven’t seen anything since; as you can see from the picture of my tank, there is little to no algae. That, in combination with my parameters being way off, I figured it would not be a good environment to add any life to quote yet.
Today my parameters are reading 0 ammonia, .5ppm Nitrite and 20ppm Nitrate. I’m not quite sure why my Nitrates are so high, my skimmer is running fine from what I can tell, I have the waste collecting in a bottle that I dump out every couple days.
Here’s a readout of my parameters so far:

The kit had me only test certain parameters on certain days, but when things started going off the rails on Friday I’ve been testing daily. Good news is, the ammonia has tanked since Friday, so I think things are progressing the right direction, just taking longer than expected based off the kit’s instructions.
Also to note: I’m using Red Sea test kits, so parameters are subject to the accuracy of those tests.

So my questions:
- Am I on the right track? From what I’ve read, this seems to be taking a different course from the kit’s projections due to starting with dry rock instead of live rock? The instructions don’t make much of a distinction but does mention “live rock” a couple times.
So do I just need to wait it out and keep testing until parameters say the tank has cycled?
I read someone say that water changes during the cycle will stall the cycle, however the kit has me changing 5% out every 7 days. Should I hold off on the water changes until the cycle is through?
Should I continue dosing the NoPoX? I would assume yes, but at this rate I’m going to run out before the cycle is through (which isn’t a huge deal, my lfs stocks 500ml bottles).

Sorry for the novel, I’m just trying to get a handle on what’s going on as I progress further into the tank’s cycle. Thanks in advance for any advice and information!

 

[r33fermaddness]

Also, for informational purposes:

https://www.redseafish.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Reef-Mature-Starter-Kit_Manual_Multilanguage-Manual_GB_DE_FR_SP_IT_PT_JP_CH_KR_17A.pdf

The manual for the Reef Mature Starter kit, in case my explanation of the instructions were unclear.

 

[brandon429]

Your cycle is done. When the ammonia moved down

reasons your test kits don’t agree, we have a whole thread of test kits disagreeing but still cycled:

How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

non digital ammonia test kit readings (api, Red Sea, nyos, seachem badges) make you think you aren’t cycled when indeed you are if you owned a $200 expensive seneye meter, you’d never be doubting your cycle status. since .01% of the reefing population owns these, we need a way to help the...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[brandon429]

You could wait longer, but if you didn’t, what happens in that thread will occur. You met the three start date flags we look for


time from a cycling chart that shows ammonia control


ammonia reducing, from a higher set point after adding suspected bacteria


nitrate as a handy confirmation of wheels turning, but even if yours said none it’d still be cycled / ammonia is the rule. You’ve dosed what it takes, given surface area, tested nitrate, waited as long as a cycle chart takes. We aren’t factoring nitrite, per the thread. Everything you wondered about is now aligned but only going off those rules.

going off 1998 rules you are 1/4 cycled, your bacteria are dead, you can’t bring your reef and make a convention start date on time, the bottle bac directions are wildly off base, and until all your parameters align on those tests alone you may not proceed. We collect threads that have been waiting three months to begin. At least the way forward is clear lol


that’s a smorgasbord of bacteria inoc and feed and attachment points above, and it’s two days longer than an unassisted cycle chart shows for ammonia control. In what arrangement will that mixture not produce a cycle

what is the allowed start time after paying for bottle bac

do we wait out the usual unassisted cycle dates, or months if required

there has to be a permitted start time...a universal time for each new tank. To buy concentrated bacteria in water and apply it to more water is to move up the start time, twelve days in a world of fish-in cycling already seemed prudent.

 

[r33fermaddness]

@brandon429 so what would be your suggestion moving forward then? The take away I get from that thread, I should water change and then add a fish and see how he does? Add cleanup crew when algae starts to form?
Do I need to continue dosing NoPoX or will the bioload from the first fish be sufficient to keep the bacteria fed?

 

[brandon429]

We/ unstucks there think that the bacteria going down after several days is a sign they’re active and they’d be on surfaces by then, being active

main way we deviate from norm is we dont need zero ammonia, just down in the presence of rocks at minimum. Although yes after a starting water change it can take fish, that automatically opts out of fallow preparation for a true healthy diverse fish load. You’ll see some simple starter corals are fine for many, or some fish if a plan is already set such as buying quarantined ones, and only that type in the future

some skip fallow altogether but just don’t handle a diverse loading in the new tank, options range but nh3 is set you also have a lot of dilution in your favor. A large tank can’t have an easy large water change like a nano, so if large reef we just begin because you haven’t been blasting heavy ammonia, the water is clear and smells normal id assume. Free ammonia would stench

we change water for less algae fuel, not for fear of ammonia burn

 

[r33fermaddness]

Okay so update:
Levels stayed stable where they were over the week, so Saturday I grabbed a handful of cuc from the lfs; 5 turbos and 5 nassarius. I floated them for a bit and tossed em in, yesterday I fed the nassarius a small pinch of shredded raw table shrimp in lieu of leftovers or fish waste for them, which they gobbled down. They’re all doing fine; the turbos grazing on the rocks and the nassarius spending most of the time burrowed.

Anyway, I did a 10% water change today (day 21 in the reef mature program) and checked parameters right after, things were definitely not what I expected.

This seems concerning immediately after a water change. I’m going to retest in a few hours to make sure I didn’t do something wrong, but assuming the readings were right, should I be worried? I don’t want to start chasing parameters but I also don’t want the snails to die.

@brandon429 or anyone else care to share some insight?

 

[brandon429]

Can you post a pic of your tank with the snails

we are about to link your excellent thread here to our unstuck thread -because- the test kits still indicate a problem, but in contrast the tank handles feed and bioload just fine, they’re not going to die, test kits that aren’t a calibrated seneye machine give misreads and approximations only, not the final say.


we want to have this duality logged to see how long test kits take to report the truth, that your ammonia is controlled or the water would already be clouding and the cuc would not have made this long


our thread is literally about the fear that test kits cause which is unfounded, and since you added life and feed we get to watch new cycling rules get tested

so glad to see your updates. You can add more life, and it will live, since the dates from a cycling chart have been met.

you can see that what your test kits say as single point readings don’t alarm us, that’s the old ways we’ve updated.
b

 

[r33fermaddness]

Can you post a pic of your tank with the snails

we are about to link your excellent thread here to our unstuck thread -because- the test kits still indicate a problem, but in contrast the tank handles feed and bioload just fine, they’re not going to die, test kits that aren’t a calibrated seneye machine give misreads and approximations only, not the final say.


we want to have this duality logged to see how long test kits take to report the truth, that your ammonia is controlled or the water would already be clouding and the cuc would not have made this long


our thread is literally about the fear that test kits cause which is unfounded, and since you added life and feed we get to watch new cycling rules get tested

so glad to see your updates. You can add more life, and it will live, since the dates from a cycling chart have been met.

you can see that what your test kits say as single point readings don’t alarm us, that’s the old ways we’ve updated.
b

Suuper interesting, especially as a newbie, seeing inconsistencies like this in real time.

Update - I retested about 4 hours after the previous tests earlier, all the tests showed a similar trend:
ammonia read MUCH closer to 0 (Red Sea tests go from 0 to .2); skeptical to say 0, according to the kit, because the color is easily misinterpret-able, but a significant change from the previous test. Same with nitrite and nitrate, I wouldn’t go so far as to say they dropped to the next tier below the previous result, but there was significant shift downwards on the scale.
I’m sure as you say, the accuracy and interpretation of the test kits are in question rather than the water parameters, as seen in the CUC...

It’s hard to get them all in one picture due to the size of the tank, plus the nassarius stay burrowed with just their siphon sticking out. I thought this was share worthy though.

I think I’ll plan on adding a fish this weekend; my good friend owns a fish store in town and explained his quarantine protocol when I stopped by for the cuc, so I trust it coming from him.

 

[r33fermaddness]

Another update -

Picked up a pair of black clowns from my trustworthy LFS - they had been quarantined for 4 weeks then added to his display tanks. I picked them up Saturday, temp and drip acclimated for an hour then added to the tank. Didn’t eat day 1 but I wasn’t surprised, tried feeding yesterday and they happily gobbled down some Marine S pellets from Hikari, still doing well today! Continuing the water testing, ammonia has stayed at 0, haven’t tested nitrite, nitrate has been hovering around 10-20ppm. 10% weekly water change later tonight. I’m running GFO and Two Little Fishies NPX biopellets in a dual reactor to help with phosphates (still a bit high at 1ppm) and nitrates. Haven’t seen too much of any algae except some diatoms on the rocks and sand, but I have a feeling I’m gonna start to see some soon.

I’ll probably look into a goby pair or a yellow tang in a few weeks as my next purchase.

 

[brandon429]

Excellent, added to our thread now that living bioload is in the tank and no crash, cycled and confirmed. The portions on the graphs above showing brief ammonia spikes aren’t accurate thats the kit giving its best reading as natural conversions happened, or feeding boosts etc but ammonia now stays at thousandths ppm in this tank even if a color kit says otherwise.

that much surface area won’t permit spikes of free ammonia, and if something inputs so much ammonia it does overcome rocks and sand, that spike kills the whole tank and turns the water milky.

this is excellent for our thread because going off old cycling rules that never, ever, ever, doubt or contextualize test readings they would say your tank isn’t ready. But we can see it is

diatom growth is another visual proof. diatoms wont grow and colonize in a reef before the biofilter sets up. Filter bacteria are first to show, last to go in a reef tank.