Nitrate Issue Turned Emergency

[ccombs]

Hello All,

I hate for my first post to be an emergency, but I am really struggling here. Although this has been a several month ordeal leading up to this, I will try to keep it brief.

I am new to the hobby (started my first (current) tank in Aug. 2018), but I am very consistent about water changes, I have never missed one.

Recently, my Nitrates went through the roof, not just a little, but 160ppm while my ammonia and nitrite both stayed at or near undetectable. This ended up killing 2 fish, a bicolor blenny and diamond goby (obvious signs of nitrate poisoning) and it made one fish very very sick. I did big water changes and my nitrates would drop, but overnight they would go right back to 160ppm. I started dosing carbon (Red Sea No Pox) and it has helped over time, but my nitrates have started to rise as I begin to lower the dose. Currently, my nitrates are back at 40ppm, corals aren't doing so well, and another fish died a few days ago with the same signs of Nitrate poisoning. I don't want to keep losing fish and coral at such a quick rate.

Please help me figure out the underlying cause here, I am at a bit of a loss and don't want to hide the problem with Carbon dosing.

I am open to any suggestions, I have tried multiple test kits just to be sure the readings are accurate.

Please see tank stats below.

Tank: Innovative Marine Fusion 30 Gallon
Rock: Reef Saver Live Dry Rock
Sand: 1-2" of CaribSea Aragonite Special Grade
Food: LRS Reef Frenzy (1/2"x1/2" Square Per Day-Thawed)
Sicce 530 GPH Return Pump
150W Heater
Ice Cap 1K Gyre
Tunze 9001 Protein Skimmer
Innovative Marine Aqua Shield UV Sterilizer-Currently Off, Used to Clear An Algae Bloom
Aquatic Life 4 Stage RODI Filter-This Water Tests Clean
Innovative Marine Caddy (Filter Floss, GFO, Carbon)
Custom Lighting Solution

Current Stocking:
(1) Clownfish
(1) Bengaii Cardinal
(1) Dwarf Coral Beauty Angel
(1) Cleaner Shrimp
(1) Peppermint Shrimp
(7) Hermit Crabs
(1) Green Star Polyp (Fairly Retracted)
(1) Xenia (Closed, Not Melted...Yet)

Weekly 20% Water Change with RODI Water
Weekly Glass Clean/Vacuum
Dump Out Skimmer Cup Every Few Days
Top Off Water Every Few Days
Clean Pumps, Equipment Every Few Weeks

Current Parameters:
80 Degrees F
pH: 8.2
Salinity: 1.026
Ammonia: .25 (Normally At 0)
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 40 (Was 160 About 2 Weeks Ago)
Phosphate: Between 0 and .25 (Kit Doesn't Have More Resolution)
Calcium: 440
Alkalinity: 20 (Consistently Has Been At 9, Bad Reaction From API 8.2 2 Days Ago)

Let me know if any more information is needed, I really appreciate it and look forward to meeting the community on here.

 

[AspiringReefer]

Did you have some snails die you didn’t notice?

 

[ccombs]

Did you have some snails die you didn’t notice?

I counted all of my inverts and they are all accounted for. I actually got the clean up crew after the nitrate spike to be sure waste was minimal, and they have done a great job.

I appreciate the quick reply.

 

[Jerzyray]

When you say your rodi tests clean. does that mean 0 zero TDS?

 

[ccombs]

When you say your rodi tests clean. does that mean 0 zero TDS?

I do not have a TDS meter, I was simply doing Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite. Ordering a TDS meter on Amazon now lol. I appreciate the input!

 

[ccombs]

I do not have a TDS meter, I was simply doing Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite. Ordering a TDS meter on Amazon now lol. I appreciate the input!

I got the TDS meter and some Chaeto to see if that helps, they will be here on Friday. This hobby has been nothing but frustration since I started, especially since I am so strict about my maintenance. My 2 corals seem to do poorly since I put them in and I have had alot of deaths in a short amount of time.

 

[Gonebad395]

First off welcome to R2R sorry your first post is a troubled one but we are glad you are here asking for help. Let’s get some people in here to pinpoint this problem for you #reefsquad . How much water are you changing with your water changes? Are you vacuuming your sand and blowing off your rocks? How often are you changing your filter floss?

 

[ccombs]

First off welcome to R2R sorry your first post is a troubled one but we are glad you are here asking for help. Let’s get some people in here to pinpoint this problem for you #reefsquad . How much water are you changing with your water changes? Are you vacuuming your sand and blowing off your rocks? How often are you changing your filter floss?

I change out 5 gallons of water every week, when my Nitrates got to 160ppm I did 5 gallons every day for about a week until I purchased No Pox, but the nitrates would rise back overnight. It is a 30 gallon tank, but with my sand, rock, equipment, etc. I figure there is closer to 25 actual gallons in the tank.

I vacuum my sand with every water change, and my clean up crew does a great job keeping the rocks clean. I have my gyre set to do a 5 minute blast once a day that really cleans off the rock. I blow off any remaining detritus as needed with a pipette.

I change my filter floss once a week and my GFO/Carbon bags once a month. For what it is worth, my filter floss is brown after 1 week.

About 3 weeks ago I reduced my feeding to the once a day 1/2"x1/2" square of LRS reef frenzy because I did some research and figured that twice a day might be too much. Finding the right amount to feed proved to be hard and I think that when I personally feel like I am feeding too little, I am probably feeding the right amount.

Thank you so much for jumping in and helping me out. I really want to enjoy my reef and take good care of the creatures that reside there. The NoPox is doing a good job, I just would like to not rely on carbon dosing and find what the real issue is, not just treat the problem. I was doing an 'emergency' dose of 5ml a day when my nitrates were over 80, but then went to 3ml once they got down past 40. Anything less that 3ml and the nitrates begin to rise rapidly again.

 

[H3rm1tCr@b]

Any algae growing? Corelline? You might want some more live rock. The best stuff in my opinion is the stuff CRAWLING with life, bristle worms can count. I wonder if something died and you didn't see it... the snail thing was already clarified though. Otherwise, I've got nothin. Good luck!

 

[ccombs]

Any algae growing? Corelline? You might want some more live rock. The best stuff in my opinion is the stuff CRAWLING with life, bristle worms can count. I wonder if something died and you didn't see it... the snail thing was already clarified though. Otherwise, I've got nothin. Good luck!

The BiColor died while hiding deep in the rock so I was not able to retrieve him, however, as soon as I put the clean up crew in they seemed to pull some bits out that appeared to be what was left. It just doesn't make sense that the ammonia and nitrite never spiked after his death. I can say with 100% certainty that the 160ppm episode happened before his death and I know that I did not have anything decaying in my tank at that time.

I had the fuzzy sort of algae on the rocks and sand after the death of the blenny and goby because they weren't picking at the rocks/sifting the sand, but the clean up crew took care of that at amazing speed. I have zero coraline algae, but I sure would like my rocks to be purple or pink haha.

I did not use all of the live rock that came with my tank (tank came with sand, rock, salt as a starter) so maybe I am a tad short on rock. I have attached a crappy iPhone picture so you have an idea of how much live rock I have.

Would it be correct to say that the amount of surface area I have with rock would be directly correlated to how much beneficial bacteria I can support in my tank?

My goal here is to run a tank that is as natural as possible, meaning no additives or dosing. I want to choose inhabitants that benefit the tank like they would benefit the environment in nature (clean up crew, gobies, etc) and have a tank that is not reliant on me for the water chemistry they need outside of water changes and normal maintenance. I am hoping this chaeto will help with the nitrates so I can move on to address my coral issues.

 

[H3rm1tCr@b]

Well from what I have heard and researched, yeah the more surface area on the rock the better. Means more bacteria will grow on it. Actually, now that I have seen the pic, the rock looks pretty good quantity-wise. I'm worried about ammonia though. It looks like your tank is really new. I love the natural idea. That is what I try to accomplish with my tank. I am by no means whatsoever an expert, but I think your tank isn't cycled yet. I don't know things like when you set it up and how quickly it was stocked and whatnot, but I think the super high nitrate means it is cycling. Um I think the macroalgae is a good idea, just don't add any more animals until it is more stable and things stop dying. I would ask around. I think there are also products out there that remove nitrates and stuff. Again, I would highly recommend adding some things to get some more bacteria. When a tank is sterile and new, there isn't any bacteria at first to help process and break down nutrients. One way to get bacteria, is by getting a scoop of sand from an established tank, some live rock that has living creatures like algae, worms, ect. Not the stark white stuff. That is dry rock. No bacteria yet. If fish keep dying rapidly and you are worried, I would maybe call a friend who has an established tank or a good saltwater store to see if they could hold on to your remaining critters for you. They hopefully will also have good information to help you. Do research and try not to mess with things too much. There is fantastic information on different threads and such on this forum. look under the sections, or search up things. Ask as much as you can. Oh this is important: how is your clean up crew and cleaner shrimp acting? any funny behavior? I really hope this helps. If all else fails and your fish don't make it, you can start over. If this occurs, get the best live rock you can, borrow someone's dirty filter sock (bacteria and fish waste to help start cycle) and wait.

 

[ccombs]

Well from what I have heard and researched, yeah the more surface area on the rock the better. Means more bacteria will grow on it. Actually, now that I have seen the pic, the rock looks pretty good quantity-wise. I'm worried about ammonia though. It looks like your tank is really new. I love the natural idea. That is what I try to accomplish with my tank. I am by no means whatsoever an expert, but I think your tank isn't cycled yet. I don't know things like when you set it up and how quickly it was stocked and whatnot, but I think the super high nitrate means it is cycling. Um I think the macroalgae is a good idea, just don't add any more animals until it is more stable and things stop dying. I would ask around. I think there are also products out there that remove nitrates and stuff. Again, I would highly recommend adding some things to get some more bacteria. When a tank is sterile and new, there isn't any bacteria at first to help process and break down nutrients. One way to get bacteria, is by getting a scoop of sand from an established tank, some live rock that has living creatures like algae, worms, ect. Not the stark white stuff. That is dry rock. No bacteria yet. If fish keep dying rapidly and you are worried, I would maybe call a friend who has an established tank or a good saltwater store to see if they could hold on to your remaining critters for you. They hopefully will also have good information to help you. Do research and try not to mess with things too much. There is fantastic information on different threads and such on this forum. look under the sections, or search up things. Ask as much as you can. Oh this is important: how is your clean up crew and cleaner shrimp acting? any funny behavior? I really hope this helps. If all else fails and your fish don't make it, you can start over. If this occurs, get the best live rock you can, borrow someone's dirty filter sock (bacteria and fish waste to help start cycle) and wait.

Thanks for the input. The tank has been up for 6 months now and I cycled with Dr. Tims One and Only and a Clownfish and let that be for 6 weeks before I did any more stocking. At the 6 week mark I added the blenny, and at the 12 week mark I added goby. At the 16 week mark I added some chromis that unfortunately met an untimely death when they were attacked by something. At 18 weeks I added the dwarf angel and didn't add the cardinals until recently.

I know the tank is still fairly new, but I don't think that I stocked it too quickly.

I didn't start using RODI water until a few months in, and come to think of it, I had perfect water parameters up until that point simply with the API water conditioner.

Clean up crew has been doing great. They are super active and running around like there are no problems. I have had them for about 2 weeks now and the shrimps are doing great and have only molted once so far. I am watching them as indicators for toxins if they start to molt more than once a month or so.

 

[elisa h]

Nitrates don’t kill saltwater fish. They would have to be crazy high to outright kill a fish. A lot of people have fish only systems with 160ppm nitrate + and don’t worry about it because they don’t have coral. Are you sure the fish haven’t died of a parasite/bacterial infection? Have you quarantined your fish? Also have you verified your test kits? Maybe take your water to the fish store and see what they test. Also you said your tank was set up last August but it looks extremely new. No color on rocks not even any algae? Did your tank go through the normal diatom bloom/ green hair algae stage? With as clean as the tank looks and nitrates that high it would almost seem like the tank is still cycling and nitrite would be causing the false high reading of nitrate.

 

[Hemmdog]

Welcome to reef2reef. Having your gyre blast once a day for 5 mins isn’t a great idea. Just keep it on a schedule to keep water moving good all day and night. If your dosing Nopox you need excellent flow for gas exchange.

 

[Hemmdog]

Thanks for the input. The tank has been up for 6 months now and I cycled with Dr. Tims One and Only and a Clownfish and let that be for 6 weeks before I did any more stocking. At the 6 week mark I added the blenny, and at the 12 week mark I added goby. At the 16 week mark I added some chromis that unfortunately met an untimely death when they were attacked by something. At 18 weeks I added the dwarf angel and didn't add the cardinals until recently.

I know the tank is still fairly new, but I don't think that I stocked it too quickly.

I didn't start using RODI water until a few months in, and come to think of it, I had perfect water parameters up until that point simply with the API water conditioner.

Clean up crew has been doing great. They are super active and running around like there are no problems. I have had them for about 2 weeks now and the shrimps are doing great and have only molted once so far. I am watching them as indicators for toxins if they start to molt more than once a month or so.

Your rocks could be full of chlorine and other bad stuff from you using tap and conditioner in the past. That would explain why it looks so sterile and bacteria can’t properly do the nitrogen cycle. Do you have a chlorine test kit or other heavy metal test kits? Change your filter floss every other day if it’s brown when your currently changing it.

 

[ccombs]

Nitrates don’t kill saltwater fish. They would have to be crazy high to outright kill a fish. A lot of people have fish only systems with 160ppm nitrate + and don’t worry about it because they don’t have coral. Are you sure the fish haven’t died of a parasite/bacterial infection? Have you quarantined your fish? Also have you verified your test kits? Maybe take your water to the fish store and see what they test. Also you said your tank was set up last August but it looks extremely new. No color on rocks not even any algae? Did your tank go through the normal diatom bloom/ green hair algae stage? With as clean as the tank looks and nitrates that high it would almost seem like the tank is still cycling and nitrite would be causing the false high reading of nitrate.

I am pretty sure the tank did cycle as the parameters were all very good for the first few months. In hindsight I wish I would have done a real cycle with ghost feeding, etc.

In regards to Nitrate poisoning, I did some reading on it and I could totally be wrong here. From what I understand is that most of the time high nitrates won't kill fish, but in some cases with the levels I was having, that it is possible. The fish that died exhibited labored breathing and other signs associated with nitrate poisoning.

I checked and did not see any visible signs of ich or other parasites. I did not quarantine, but I did purchase them from a store that holds the fish in copper dosed tanks for a few days before they are sold.

I verified my test kits by purchasing different secondary kits and they are reading the same. I also took a water sample to a LFS and it is reading the same there as well.

There has been algae, but the clean up crew has been picking it off the rocks and sand.

In regards to the look of the rock, I have also been very surprised at how clean it is 6 months in. They look almost exactly as clean as they did when I put them in. I agree it seems weird, but it is just the situation I have right now.

 

[ccombs]

Your rocks could be full of chlorine and other bad stuff from you using tap and conditioner in the past. That would explain why it looks so sterile and bacteria can’t properly do the nitrogen cycle. Do you have a chlorine test kit or other heavy metal test kits? Change your filter floss every other day if it’s brown when your currently changing it.

I do not have a chlorine test or heavy metal test. Do you have any recommendations? If the test comes back with bad results, how does one go about treating that?

 

[ccombs]

Welcome to reef2reef. Having your gyre blast once a day for 5 mins isn’t a great idea. Just keep it on a schedule to keep water moving good all day and night. If your dosing Nopox you need excellent flow for gas exchange.

Got it. My gyre runs up to 30% max and ramps up and down the rest of the day. The 'blast' is 50% for 5 minutes, but I will take that out now. Thanks for the advice!

 

[Hemmdog]

I am pretty sure the tank did cycle as the parameters were all very good for the first few months. In hindsight I wish I would have done a real cycle with ghost feeding, etc.

In regards to Nitrate poisoning, I did some reading on it and I could totally be wrong here. From what I understand is that most of the time high nitrates won't kill fish, but in some cases with the levels I was having, that it is possible. The fish that died exhibited labored breathing and other signs associated with nitrate poisoning.

I checked and did not see any visible signs of ich or other parasites. I did not quarantine, but I did purchase them from a store that holds the fish in copper dosed tanks for a few days before they are sold.

I verified my test kits by purchasing different secondary kits and they are reading the same. I also took a water sample to a LFS and it is reading the same there as well.

There has been algae, but the clean up crew has been picking it off the rocks and sand.

In regards to the look of the rock, I have also been very surprised at how clean it is 6 months in. They look almost exactly as clean as they did when I put them in. I agree it seems weird, but it is just the situation I have right now.

What salt have you been using?

 

[Hemmdog]

I do not have a chlorine test or heavy metal test. Do you have any recommendations? If the test comes back with bad results, how does one go about treating that?

Cuprisorb I believe it’s called. It absorbs copper and other heavy metals. Just trying to think outside the box, the sterile looking rocks is beyond odd for 6 months with fish lol. We will figure it out