No love for MH?

[jda]

RK had an article testing Phoenix 14k over 24 months. ...something like 75% output at a year and 69-70% at 24 months... most output loss was in the first few months. I am going off of memory, but the article should be easy to find. I used to give my old bulbs to folks who used them for another year... spectrum was good, but output was down.

Whether anybody likes it or not, we live in a world where people get judged and judge themselves. This "there is no such thing as better, just different" type of argument is the online equivalent of giving out participation trophies. Some people are OK with this. Some are not. For the people who want more out of their tanks, they can tell the difference in lighting types. The ultimate example of this are all of the people who are adding T5s to their LEDs and wishing that they did it sooner. Has anybody ever heard of a person who regretted adding T5s? If so, have you heard of a second case? They saw a deficiency and wanted to get better. I think that all of the arguments are just between people who cannot see the difference yet... or just don't care, but most of the whom do not care do not argue that much.

This whole argument about "it is not the tech's fault, it is the implementation" is stupid too. I don't care if we could have hydrogen cars that get 100 miles per gallon, where are they? I don't live in a dreamworld. LEDs that "could" have perfect spectrum and "could" have total coverage are just as useful as the JetPacks and Hovercraft that were supposed to be mainstream by the year 2000 (this was a real thing). Rainbows, butterflies and dreams don't make my coral thrive.

With a quantum (photon is a quantum) being infinite and mostly theoretical, how does anybody know that there is no magic ones. Seems that somewhere in infinity there could be some magic. Seems like somebody could have a theory that magic exists. Maybe this is where people are going wrong in assuming that there are no magic photons... time to assume that there are.

 

[TheGreatWave]

People like T5 on aquariums due to coverage, not because they are magic. Most people don't want to spend the 2-3 thousand dollars it takes to light up a tank with LED.

4' 4 bulb T5 @200watts for $300

or

4 x XR-15 @ 200watts for $2000 just to get the power.

or

8 x XR-15 @200watts for $4,000 to get the power and the coverage of a $300 T5 fixture.

So what is it you are debating?
LED would be a whole lot cheaper if it didn't require "reef" colors costing $10 a watt.

 

[alton]

I know what I did for 10+ years with MH. I turned on each pendant one at a time using my controller. If the water got too warm like when my AC went on the blink the controller would turn my MH off. I didn't run a chiller, and evidently if PPFD changes so much during 18 months, my corals never noticed and I never lost a coral because of it. The title of this thread was No love for MH, not Leds versus MH. I have just posted my MH tanks and and the reason why I switched. Did not know I would have to go against studies from the world? My 300DD right before I went smaller. And please can we be a little more positive than negative in this thread.

The following tank was my first successful tank using MH. I had 2 x 250w Reeflux and one 175w Reeflux lamp in the center on a true dimming ballast. It was set up that it came on at 10% and took 2 hours to get to 100%, same thing with shut off. It would take 2 hours to dim down. I ran a small fan on top of the glass to keep the glass tops cool. My office was at 72 with the tank at 75.

The following tank was a over the top with light with one 250w pendant on such a small tank

 

[Wrangy]

I know what I did for 10+ years with MH. I turned on each pendant one at a time using my controller. If the water got too warm like when my AC went on the blink the controller would turn my MH off. I didn't run a chiller, and evidently if PPFD changes so much during 18 months, my corals never noticed and I never lost a coral because of it. The title of this thread was No love for MH, not Leds versus MH. I have just posted my MH tanks and and the reason why I switched. Did not know I would have to go against studies from the world? My 300DD right before I went smaller. And please can we be a little more positive than negative in this thread.

The following tank was my first successful tank using MH. I had 2 x 250w Reeflux and one 175w Reeflux lamp in the center on a true dimming ballast. It was set up that it came on at 10% and took 2 hours to get to 100%, same thing with shut off. It would take 2 hours to dim down. I ran a small fan on top of the glass to keep the glass tops cool. My office was at 72 with the tank at 75.

The following tank was a over the top with light with one 250w pendant on such a small tank

Awesome tanks man and I couldn't agree with you more about the hostility, it's ridiculous in this thread.

 

[CNDReef]

I know what I did for 10+ years with MH. I turned on each pendant one at a time using my controller. If the water got too warm like when my AC went on the blink the controller would turn my MH off. I didn't run a chiller, and evidently if PPFD changes so much during 18 months, my corals never noticed and I never lost a coral because of it. The title of this thread was No love for MH, not Leds versus MH. I have just posted my MH tanks and and the reason why I switched. Did not know I would have to go against studies from the world? My 300DD right before I went smaller. And please can we be a little more positive than negative in this thread.

The following tank was my first successful tank using MH. I had 2 x 250w Reeflux and one 175w Reeflux lamp in the center on a true dimming ballast. It was set up that it came on at 10% and took 2 hours to get to 100%, same thing with shut off. It would take 2 hours to dim down. I ran a small fan on top of the glass to keep the glass tops cool. My office was at 72 with the tank at 75.

The following tank was a over the top with light with one 250w pendant on such a small tank

Just so your small tank doesn’t feel alone
Don’t mind the dirty glass ;Bookworm

 

[Wrangy]

This was my little 2ft cube 250w Radium <3

 

[Bpb]

Couple progression shots.

4/1/19 to 7/17/19

ORA baby blue

Paletta pink tip

Color temp warmed up a bit because the before are with blue led supplements which I stopped running.

 

[TheGreatWave]

I know what I did for 10+ years with MH. I turned on each pendant one at a time using my controller. If the water got too warm like when my AC went on the blink the controller would turn my MH off. I didn't run a chiller, and evidently if PPFD changes so much during 18 months, my corals never noticed and I never lost a coral because of it. The title of this thread was No love for MH, not Leds versus MH. I have just posted my MH tanks and and the reason why I switched. Did not know I would have to go against studies from the world? My 300DD right before I went smaller. And please can we be a little more positive than negative in this thread.

The following tank was my first successful tank using MH. I had 2 x 250w Reeflux and one 175w Reeflux lamp in the center on a true dimming ballast. It was set up that it came on at 10% and took 2 hours to get to 100%, same thing with shut off. It would take 2 hours to dim down. I ran a small fan on top of the glass to keep the glass tops cool. My office was at 72 with the tank at 75.

The following tank was a over the top with light with one 250w pendant on such a small tank

If the thread is called no love for MH then buy default it is a thread about alternative lighting. I respect your right to view those with opposing thoughts or common sense as being negative. I wish you wouldn't though.

Nevertheless I don't see what these pictures are supposed to represent?

Are you surprised you were able to grow coral with that much wattage? I guess you must have grown the same tank with a 4' 12-bulb T5 for comparison, or 14 XR-15 Radions. That way we would know what 675 watts of MH looks like compared to 675 watts of T5 or LED.

What part did you like better about these MH, having to shut lights off because of the heat? or having to run a fan to keep your tank evaporating?

If your hood can hold more water then your fish tank at what point does the hood get some credit? Pretty tanks though.

 

[TheGreatWave]

Awesome tanks man and I couldn't agree with you more about the hostility, it's ridiculous in this thread.

I know eh nothing worse then somebody commenting on behavior in a thread with nothing topical to add. The nerve of these people.

 

[Bpb]

I know what I did for 10+ years with MH. I turned on each pendant one at a time using my controller. If the water got too warm like when my AC went on the blink the controller would turn my MH off. I didn't run a chiller, and evidently if PPFD changes so much during 18 months, my corals never noticed and I never lost a coral because of it. The title of this thread was No love for MH, not Leds versus MH. I have just posted my MH tanks and and the reason why I switched. Did not know I would have to go against studies from the world? My 300DD right before I went smaller. And please can we be a little more positive than negative in this thread.

The following tank was my first successful tank using MH. I had 2 x 250w Reeflux and one 175w Reeflux lamp in the center on a true dimming ballast. It was set up that it came on at 10% and took 2 hours to get to 100%, same thing with shut off. It would take 2 hours to dim down. I ran a small fan on top of the glass to keep the glass tops cool. My office was at 72 with the tank at 75.

The following tank was a over the top with light with one 250w pendant on such a small tank

I appreciated the picture shares. I’d rather see people posting their mature tanks, rather
Than the Facebook threads loaded with macro shots of 2-3 polyps at a time under blues calling everything “fiya”. To each their own. Don’t worry if some dissenters are critical. The rest are happy to see them

 

[TheGreatWave]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4149485/

another fun one..
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17679722

I followed a link to an abstract and pulled some interesting numbers with regards to consumption.

(0.71 € m− 2 day− 1 for T5, 0.38 € m− 2 day− 1 for LEP, and 0.28 € m− 2 day− 1 for LED).

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0044848613001592

Highlights

•
LED and LEP are interesting alternatives of artificial lighting for coral aquaculture
•
LED blue spectra promoted a higher growth for A. formosa and S. pistillata
•
LED lighting presents a lower energetic cost per m− 2 of coral production area"

 

[Wrangy]

I know eh nothing worse then somebody commenting on behavior in a thread with nothing topical to add. The nerve of these people.

Really man?? I've made plenty of other comments on topic but the childish behaviour that goes on in this thread from certain parties is boggling. But if that's how you feel mate no stress You have a great day

 

[shred5]

Really man?? I've made plenty of other comments on topic but the childish behaviour that goes on in this thread from certain parties is boggling. But if that's how you feel mate no stress You have a great day

I have noticed a change with allot of newer users lately. I think some are coming from social media where being rude seems acceptable. I have seen a allot of pot shots lately at users here or peoples ideas. The polarization of politics has got bad too where people think they can say what ever they want has fueled the rudeness. Honestly I know the moderation staff is pretty relaxed on stuff and it has been nice but it may be time to start cracking down some on the rudeness before it gets out of hand. R2R has had a pretty relaxed feel to it.. People say stuff they would never say to someone face.

 

[TheGreatWave]

I have noticed a change with allot of newer users lately. I think some are coming from social media where being rude seems acceptable. I have seen a allot of pot shots lately at users here or peoples ideas. The polarization of politics has got bad too where people think they can say what ever they want has fueled the rudeness. Honestly I know the moderation staff is pretty relaxed on stuff and it has been nice but it may be time to start cracking down some on the rudeness before it gets out of hand. R2R has had a pretty relaxed feel to it.. People say stuff they would never say to someone face.

Or maybe it is due to the rude behavior we've read on here over the years and have to be curt. Maybe we are just returning the favor?

I can be the villain if you want. I promise you I am real, this is how I would talk to your face, no problem.

Look at your passive aggressive attitude now with your "new users" comment and the fact that you are posting off topic.

Would you like to comment on the article I posted above about power consumption?

 

[JoeD_]

I can see how an old school reefer still appreciates MH... But with the new technology out there it just seems like the worst option in terms of money, maintenance, and the obvious heating issues that every other fixture on the market doesn't have to deal with... I just switched to LEDs from T-5s. I can still see why people like using T-5s because you don't have to worry about intensity settings + controllers. The fixtures are way cheaper and the spread is still superior to LEDs. To each their own in the hobby and do whatever makes you happy. The only fixture I can see myself flirting with is a T5 /LED combo. only reasoning is spread. Otherwise, I think LEDs are here to stay and they'll probably only get better. I just can't see finding love with an antiquated fixture.

 

[shred5]

Or maybe it is due to the rude behavior we've read on here over the years and have to be curt. Maybe we are just returning the favor?

I can be the villain if you want. I promise you I am real, this is how I would talk to your face, no problem.

Look at your passive aggressive attitude now with your "new users" comment and the fact that you are posting off topic.

Would you like to comment on the article I posted above about power consumption?

Why are you here then if you do not like the users here?

My post was not even at anyone specific it was at the other guys post but thanks for proving my point.

To my if someone has to attack someone or be rude they lost the debate and have no point.

By the way thanks for the PM calling me a looser.

 

[TheGreatWave]

Why are you here then if you do not like the users here?

My post was not even at anyone specific it was at the other guys post but thanks for proving my point.

To my if someone has to attack someone or be rude they lost the debate and have no point.

By the way thanks for the PM calling me a looser.

Notice how I took my issue with you private.

Your post was directed at me, who else has made these curmudgeons look impractical lately? You quoted an off colored post directed at me and piled on. We aren't naive.

 

[shred5]

Notice how I took my issue with you private.

Your post was directed at me, who else has made these curmudgeons look impractical lately? You quoted an off colored post directed at me and piled on. We aren't naive.

It was at several post in this thread and other lately. I am not replying to this stuff anymore it is off topic and these post will be deleted anyway at this point.

 

[TheGreatWave]

It was at several post in this thread and other lately. I am not replying to this stuff anymore it is off topic and these post will be deleted anyway at this point.

My apologies then if you new user comment wasn't intended for me.

 

[Bpb]

I can see how an old school reefer still appreciates MH... But with the new technology out there it just seems like the worst option in terms of money, maintenance, and the obvious heating issues that every other fixture on the market doesn't have to deal with....

Otherwise, I think LEDs are here to stay and they'll probably only get better.

The details on your first gripe have been exhausted to the fact that they’re not universal. Would you really call a black box great technology, or reliable, or having the same spectral width and control as an option costing literally 8-10x as much? I wouldn’t. The fact that you can get a new mh or t5 setup with bulbs for 1/3-1/2 the cost of an “industry standard” style controllable led panel makes the money argument dubious at best.

Heating is a silly argument too. I use 2x$8 clip on fans to keep my tank under 80 degrees. I know people who use all radion pros who run a chiller. Every case is different. Metal halides aren’t universally synonymous with constant light shut offs, overheating, chiller use, and scalded arms. That talk is perpetuated by people who have zero experience with them.

I don’t think anyone is arguing whether leds are here to stay. That much is obvious. I can’t recall a single post or thread from the past several years that would indicate the led industry is a fad and will be gone soon. Even die hard mh users will all agree as a product mainstay, they’re not going anywhere.