NO3 dosing killing my SPS?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Oh! That's the other funny thing. When I'm dosing NO3 I don't have to clean my glass nearly as much. Usually it's a daily thing with a very light dusting (most people would likely wait) but when I dose the NO3 you can look as hard as you want and the algae isn't there for 3 days or so.

Sounds like the tank may be hitting a different limiting factor, such as phosphate, iron, manganese, etc.

Might be worth using a trace element supplement.

 

[Wiskey]

I am dosing Triton and using Tropic marin Pro coral salt. I think they contain all the traces, I could start larger water changes though.

Wait,.. If NO3 was limited for a long time, and then I raised it, could the Zoox have gone crazy reproducing in the corals and caused way too much energy production much like over lighting a tank?

Bleaching is another thing I witnessed.

Would it be smart to drop the light to like 200 par? Or even less?

Whiskey

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

When you say Triton, what does that in your case mean exactly?

Water changes cannot always prevent trace depletion.

 

[Wiskey]

When you say Triton, what does that in your case mean exactly?

Water changes cannot always prevent trace depletion.

The Triton supplements, it's like 2 part, but has 3 parts and is supposed to replenish all trace elements relative to the consumption of Alk, CA and Mag. Here's a link:

The TRITON Method — Reef Care Without Water Changes | TRITON

ICP testing, personalised dosing, and a complete reef care system. No water changes required. Trusted by 500,000+ analyses since 2008.

www.triton.de

Thank you,
Whiskey

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So you use the Core 7 supplements?

Ever get an ICP?

many people mean different things when they say Triton.

 

[Wiskey]

So you use the Core 7 supplements?

Ever get an ICP?

many people mean different things when they say Triton.

Oh, Gotcha. I thought that was a super weird question for you specifically to be asking. I've been reading your articles forever, but then I figured that maybe you knew enough that you made your own and didn't bother wasting money or time on expensive additives like this.

Yes, I use the Core 7 supplements dosed by the Apex and DOS to keep things steady. I have the Trident as well to make sure things stay steady, then I use the Hanna kit with my weekly tests to make sure the Trident isn't giving false readings (It seems to drift at the end of the CA/Mag reagents).

No, I have never done the ICP test.

Whiskey

 

[Kingston]

I'm using the Hanna HR Nitrate checker.
Initially I dosed basically a whole bottle of B-Ionic Nitrate over 2 days to get it to 10PPM and keep it there.
Then I put B-Ionic NO3 on a doser to keep it at 10PPM.

Then I turned off the doser and let it drop to 0 again, this is when things started looking better.
Then I set the doser to 1ML /Day which got me to like 0.2 ppm but the corals started looking a little worse again.

Whiskey

Did you raise NO3 from 0 to 10ppm in 2 days? That may be too quick.

 

[Wiskey]

Did you raise NO3 from 0 to 10ppm in 2 days? That may be too quick.

More like 20 seconds (I calculated how much I needed and poured it into the sump), but then it went right down by the next day to like 3, so I brought it back up to 10 in about 20 seconds.

I worry allot about Alk changes of any kind, and I worry allot about Phosphate dropping too fast, but don't get too concerned about other things. Should I be?

Whiskey

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Because of the algae issue on glass decline, I'm still leaning toward a sudden deficiency rather than a shock of extra nitrate alone.

 

[Wiskey]

Because of the algae issue on glass decline, I'm still leaning toward a sudden deficiency rather than a shock of extra nitrate alone.

A 20% water change sure won't hurt! I started some salt mixing.

Thank you,
Whiskey

 

[Lavey29]

Not to mention your 1 step away from dinos

Yes its a balancing act with ULN systems but some manage it perfectly. Not me I keep it a little dirty.

 

[Wiskey]

Yes its a balancing act with ULN systems but some manage it perfectly. Not me I keep it a little dirty.

Me too ideally. My NO3 kit was long expired but since I'm just looking for "some" I didn't worry too much. I should have worried a little more because when I replaced it I found my "Some" was "None".

My preference would probably be something like 5-10 NO3 and 0.08 to 0.1 Phosphate if I had to pin down numbers. Back in about 2004 I caused myself all kinds of problems trying to keep those numbers at 0.

Whiskey

 

[Lavey29]

Me too ideally. My NO3 kit was long expired but since I'm just looking for "some" I didn't worry too much. I should have worried a little more because when I replaced it I found my "Some" was "None".

My preference would probably be something like 5-10 NO3 and 0.08 to 0.1 Phosphate if I had to pin down numbers. Back in about 2004 I caused myself all kinds of problems trying to keep those numbers at 0.

Whiskey

Those are good number goals. Mine stays at 19 nitrate and around .1 for phosphate. My fuge is really establishing now though so hope to see those numbers come down slightly. Corals are thriving but just added my first SPS frags 3 weeks ago.

 

[damsels are not mean]

Because of the algae issue on glass decline, I'm still leaning toward a sudden deficiency rather than a shock of extra nitrate alone.

I agree. It's possible NO3 was limiting growth of something and when that supply became available something else got sucked up and is now drained.

 

[Wiskey]

Just a quick update on this. I have stayed the course on the NO3 dosing, but reduced the dosing amount dramatically so that the tank is reading about 0.5 to 1 PPM nitrate (VS dosing straight to 10). I will slowly creep that up to get desired levels once everything looks happy again.

I have done a out of band 45 gallon water change, it's about a 200G system including the 40G frag tank. My normal schedule for this is every other month. I know Triton says you don't have to but I just think it's a good idea so I always have.

Finally I have lowered my light some. Partly this is because Zoox may have been limited by lack of Nitrate, and the addition of it may have caused it to grow rapidly and cause Tip RTN. Partly this is because the death type looks like something I'd typically see in a tank with ALK too high, or lighting too high. Finally this is partly because corals die much faster with too much light than too little, and I simply didn't need as much as I had. I'm now around 250 PAR at the top which should be plenty for anything. I can adjust for coral color once things are back on solid footing.

The death had mostly stabilized before I made this post, but I will keep everyone informed on how it goes. Hoping to see pylops come out of these corals again soon.

Whiskey

 

[Wiskey]

Okay,.. It's hard to be perfectly certain, but I'm 90% sure that turning NO3 dosing back on has caused die-off that had stabilized to start to get worse again. I have a Chalice coral that was looking fine, and now I see skeleton all around, I lost a couple more Frags, Pylop Extension seems to have reduced, and STN has restarted, so I've turned off the Nitrate dosing again as of this morning. This was with NO3 at only 0.8.

I'm not sure,.. I'll list the products I'm using here in case anyone sees an issue.
I dose 10 ML of Acropower per day to a 135G Display with 50G Sump and 40G frag tank.
I dose Core 7, have the Trident, right now I'm at 40 ML/Day of all 4 parts to maintain around 7.5 dkh and 440CA, 1300 Mg.

I feed 3 times per day, 2 with an autofeeder that are light feedings including flake, pellet, and everything is dusted in Reef Roids. Once per day I feed frozen like Misys and Cyclops, Carnivore Cuisine, and anything else I can find in the frozen section. I rotate through it.

That's pretty much it, simple system really. I focus on stability and redundancy more than anything.

If you have any thoughts I'd love to hear them! Otherwise I think I'm going to stop chasing the number and keep NO3 dosing offline.

Whiskey

 

[RyonFly]

Would a sudden Alk change cause what your experiencing with SPS? I ask because I'm currently experiencing low nitrates with elevated phosphate, dosed neonitro to about 3ppm first day, so about 50mls, next checked parameters and noticed a drop in Alk from ~8.1 to 7. I read that is to be expected somewhere on here though. I only dosed to 3ppm per their math, I can imagine if I dosed to 10ppm in one shot like you I might have seen an even more dramatic drop in Alk. Just a thought, I'm still learning.

 

[Wiskey]

Would a sudden Alk change cause what your experiencing with SPS? I ask because I'm currently experiencing low nitrates with elevated phosphate, dosed neonitro to about 3ppm first day, so about 50mls, next checked parameters and noticed a drop in Alk from ~8.1 to 7. I read that is to be expected somewhere on here though. I only dosed to 3ppm per their math, I can imagine if I dosed to 10ppm in one shot like you I might have seen an even more dramatic drop in Alk. Just a thought, I'm still learning.

It's a good thought, and growth stopping like this could easily cause that, then you would see the type of death I'm seeing if the ALK went through the roof.

I have the Trident though, it measures ALK 4 times per day and I've kept it steady by lowering the dosing. I did double check the Trident to make sure it wasn't reading wrong as well so I'm reasonably certain this is not the cause.

It seems crazy to me that NO3 dosing would have this effect but I'm out of other reasonable causes and it's the one thing that changed. Plus turning it off had things start to get better, then back on made things get worse again.

Whiskey

 

[Wiskey]

WOH!!!! I think I might have figured it out!

I noticed my PO4 was raising rapidly over the last 2 days, but couldn't explain it. My GFO was only 20 days old and it normally lasts 2 months before I change it.

I started looking into things that might cause it to exhaust quickly and found that even though my Resin in my RO/DI had not changed color, it was completely exhausted. TDS was going in at 4 and coming out at 9! The DI was making it worse! When I took it apart I found that the resin container was not packed, in fact it was only 5/6ths full if I had to estimate, I always pack this stuff in there. I'm not sure what happened, the only thing different was that I used the last of one resin with larger beads, then started using another one that was much finer, so maybe when the water ran they packed together more?

Anyway. The Phosphate is corrected, it got up to 0.18 from 0.08, and right now after running new GFO all night it is at 0.07 which is fine. The DI is fixed, and I dumped all my stored water and I've been making new all night.

I will do a 45 gallon water change as soon as I have the water, it's a 200G system approximately.

Do you know what gets released from DI that's exhausted first? Should I be concerned about heavy metals?

Thank you,
Whiskey

 

[BeMoto]

Confused on why your running GFO when your having proplems keeping PO4 at a readable level. Also your using chaeto witch also reduce PO4. Seems like you are stripping your tank of PO4 before your corals can use it. I don't see the point of GFO/chaeto if your still dosing PO4.

I'm no expert but it seems like your doing alot of work and not gaining anything from it.