Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

[brandon429]

Thank you so so much for this work

Clean rinse verified agreed.

How did you clean the rocks, curious of the method

Predictions: growback work expected/ required in all dinos rip clean runs. It didn't get title of toughest invasion in reefing by folding in one pass

Your rip clean caused the least number of dinos cells to remain, so that your selected prevention method has a better chance.

Your rip clean removed particulate solid waste unrelated to your dinos issue, this detritus plugs up your reef surface area with waste, reducing oxygen/ generating waste acids

Your rip clean instated cloudless sand such that you can now vacuum + remove rocks for topical guiding if needed and it won't cast a huge waste cloud around the system

You de aged your tank with a rip clean, you lessened the chances of tradeoff invasions markedly

We didn't have to pay for retail items so far, to cause this newly cleaned system

Best prevention options:

Own and run a large uv meant for a pond, way overrated in gallonage compared to your tank, from amazon. One with good algae clearing reviews, for a pond. These cheap sterilizers won't last forever like a $900 pentair but they are your best bet given this invader

If you choose to boost or suppress nitrate or phosphate, that risks bringing in algae issues/ due to adding fertilizer

Here on out even with UV you must insert siphon hose, remove by 5 gallon repeat water change, any gathering or remassing in the system

Lastly, the rip clean robbed a communal organism of its community

There was insulation, shared resource, food capture and all benefits in that prior allowed mat

Now the remaining cells want to remass with their remaining energy; permit no remassing by force do not allow re growth as you tune growback hopes

You can 100% keep that tank free of dinos permanently, here on out

It is a matter of repeat target siphons now, until you get lucky and beat the toughest invader in reefing
I wanted a dinos job so badly, haven't had one in a while, thank you so very much!

 

[brandon429]

dinos only amass where they're allowed to remass, they're not tougher than the pull of a siphon hose.

they may co link up with anchored GHA on rocks, preventing siphon, but we know targeted picking with a knife will dislodge any rock in reefing of it's algae + complexed expressions. manual means are what keep your tank safe until a more efficient means are found, we'd never let the system begin to lose real estate ever again now that you reduced target cells by 98%

that's the key in being dino free at the start of the invasion or the beginning of one after a rip clean removed all prior mass


the only way dinos can smother surfaces is if they're allowed to, as we watch. this is why I can't recommend UV strongly enough, most people are expecting a hands-off one pass fix but you need reinforcements to earn that in a dinos tank...if daily spot checkup siphons until the target is exhausted isn't ideal. employing a big bright light to burn them out is a nice power moved, we're only lucky they cost $150 now on amazon. those cheap jobs save ten thousand dollar reef tanks, they should be charging more for them.

lol they'll crack or break down in two years, the $150 cheap jebao, but given good reefing you won't need it by then anyway.


if you can look at your tank in a week and see mats reforming, that's directly what caused the problem, gotta catch them before they get big enough for you to notice, always be uptaking now that you took back decisive ground.

I recommend UV more than any other prevention means for all species of dinos, post rip clean. hand siphoning is the priority even above UV, that's the fundamental control over our investment. expensive corals can't be blanketed by dinos that are always removed.


before the rip clean, direct removal attempts rafted dinos on waste clouding, and sent them all around the tank.

when you work on your tank now, in hand guiding, it doesn't cloud as much/this is better to lessen raft vectoring

for sure the rip clean just reduced your overall loss risk from dinos infestations.

 

[Keko21]

dinos only amass where they're allowed to remass, they're not tougher than the pull of a siphon hose.

they may co link up with anchored GHA on rocks, preventing siphon, but we know targeted picking with a knife will dislodge any rock in reefing of it's algae + complexed expressions. manual means are what keep your tank safe until a more efficient means are found, we'd never let the system begin to lose real estate ever again now that you reduced target cells by 98%

that's the key in being dino free at the start of the invasion or the beginning of one after a rip clean removed all prior mass


the only way dinos can smother surfaces is if they're allowed to, as we watch. this is why I can't recommend UV strongly enough, most people are expecting a hands-off one pass fix but you need reinforcements to earn that in a dinos tank...if daily spot checkup siphons until the target is exhausted isn't ideal. employing a big bright light to burn them out is a nice power moved, we're only lucky they cost $150 now on amazon. those cheap jobs save ten thousand dollar reef tanks, they should be charging more for them.

lol they'll crack or break down in two years, the $150 cheap jebao, but given good reefing you won't need it by then anyway.


if you can look at your tank in a week and see mats reforming, that's directly what caused the problem, gotta catch them before they get big enough for you to notice, always be uptaking now that you took back decisive ground.

I recommend UV more than any other prevention means for all species of dinos, post rip clean. hand siphoning is the priority even above UV, that's the fundamental control over our investment. expensive corals can't be blanketed by dinos that are always removed.


before the rip clean, direct removal attempts rafted dinos on waste clouding, and sent them all around the tank.

when you work on your tank now, in hand guiding, it doesn't cloud as much/this is better to lessen raft vectoring

for sure the rip clean just reduced your overall loss risk from dinos infestations.

I used a new dish brush for the rocks.

Dinos were amphidinium so all in the sand bed. I rinsed brand new sand and removed every spec i could see of the old.

 

[brandon429]

ok thank you very much for the update, that was a solid takedown for sure, appreciate those pics!

Keko, if you buy a bag of mixed pods/refugium charger pack pods and add them, that's a solid plan for dinos assistance too

they won't all pass through the skimmer, most stay benthic/attached and moving to surfaces and eating up target cells.

 

[DannoOMG]

I never rinsed my sand before putting it in my new tank cause I didn't know better. Here is what 1.5 year old sand looks like on first rinse...

Final Rinse with RO water:

BENNE! MOLTED BENNE!

 

[brandon429]

excellent contrast that is helpful to see

I don't even doubt it will self clear for the majority of people


but majority isn't good enough for us, and page 1 shows several examples where it didn't clear in 2 days.


all proponents of not pre rinsing sand are only relaying the majority outcome; we accept that as fact but don't want it. we want only total compliance assurance for every job 100% clean cloudless outcomes.


I'd be embarrassed if an outbound tank job we did clouded up someone's ten thousand dollar reef tank; that golden post-rinse pic you show above means all tanks here comply, no losses, not ever, at the expense of a whole lotta tap water

 

[brandon429]

its so clean we could easily drink from the bottom rinse and not be able to tell which one had sand in it, from a blind taste test heh.

thats exactly how clean we want every entrant in this entire thread.



**from private message rip clean work logged a few months ago, see Danno's tank graduation pics

Going from a 13.5 Gallon Evo to a 25 Gallon Innovative Marine using the "Berlin Method."

I almost called it the Belgium method. Tssst. What are we making waffles or somethin? Tssst... I have had my 13.5 Evo running for 2 years now and have decided I want something a little bigger and something that will give me some better options for returns pumps etc... Things are getting tight...

www.reef2reef.com

he commanded his tank back from the edge, its now full of happy corals and time to upgrade to another tank. that's another win not for rip cleans, for the will of a human to overpower a small glass box of water and make it comply vs do indirect things and just hope it complies.

 

[brandon429]

Team

post up some invasion challenges please, let’s get more work done.



let’s move someone’s $$$ sps reef across town via skip cycle


or let’s swap out a sandbed



for a harsh invasion, let’s remove your current sandbed, fight the invasion without sand to insulate and feed the invasion, then we will reinstall perfect cloudless sand back into the fully running reef and your tank will not recycle once the invasion is controlled

a staggered removal + re addition job would be new for the thread

our friend Tom here on reef2reef plus Humblefish’s forum is doing a staggered run, fully documented, of the hardest dinos challenge I’ve seen in a nano reef, we can reference his findings for any upcoming bed removal + delayed install job.

Let’s do some tangible sand work where cash is on the line for a successful outcome, post up some challenges. Rip cleaning is the safest way to handle your tank and de-age it.



it’s pretty cool sometimes when being a sticky isn’t required to become a fair reference for success. If sticky threads don’t need to involve actual work in tanks to become a reference for best practices, heck there’s enough reef jobs in demand out there for a regular old web post to make new paths, even without the unfair tik tok hot button boosting trick that is a forum sticky


We stay afloat because people want to handle sandbeds without killing their reefs. We learned together what order of ops gets these ends for every reader.

If everyone went to bare bottom reefs and high throughput system flows we’d be out of business here.

 

[Keko21]

Wow. It took 8 hours but dang does it look better than before! All fish looking good corals are opening up, parameters excellent! Hopefully these dinos dont cone back!!!

before:

after:

So Quick update on mine- it looks like I did hit a little bit of a mini cycle. Yesterday ammonia was at .4ppm (total using Red Sea test), today back down to .2ppm total, and I assume by tomorrow I'll be back at zero or close to it. My assumption is because it's a young tank (less than 6 months) and i started with dry rock- so not fully mature live rock yet. All my fish are still happy with no signs of stress. The only thing that seems a bit ticked off are my zoas.

Sadly, I am starting to see the beginnings of a resurgence of amphidinium dinos, but they are SOOOO much weaker. I'm heavy dosing MB7, and Si to get diatoms going again to smother them out once and for all. Also 20,000+ pods coming, and live phyto. Hopefully this will be the nail in the coffin.

Still happy I did this though not only from the perspective of combating dinos, but I've also gotten to know my corals a bit better over the past few months and think the new rock scape and flow pattern is keeping everything healthier.

 

[HomebroodExotics]

So Quick update on mine- it looks like I did hit a little bit of a mini cycle. Yesterday ammonia was at .4ppm (total using Red Sea test), today back down to .2ppm total, and I assume by tomorrow I'll be back at zero or close to it. My assumption is because it's a young tank (less than 6 months) and i started with dry rock- so not fully mature live rock yet. All my fish are still happy with no signs of stress. The only thing that seems a bit ticked off are my zoas.

Sadly, I am starting to see the beginnings of a resurgence of amphidinium dinos, but they are SOOOO much weaker. I'm heavy dosing MB7, and Si to get diatoms going again to smother them out once and for all. Also 20,000+ pods coming, and live phyto. Hopefully this will be the nail in the coffin.

Still happy I did this though not only from the perspective of combating dinos, but I've also gotten to know my corals a bit better over the past few months and think the new rock scape and flow pattern is keeping everything healthier.

That’s weird because Brandon keeps telling us he has 100% success in turning a tank around with a rip clean. Must be 99.9% success now. Good luck with your reef hope it works out for you.

 

[brandon429]

send me some big tank move jobs pls team let's keep momentum going

Again for this page we study sales tactics sellers use to get buyers to by things to help bacteria with a false premise, that reef tanks run low on bacteria and need replacement for cost.

see next to last entry above, to replace bacteria lost by extensive cleaning of substrates


we're on page 52 of the harshest reef tank handling ever documented, rinsing out 200+ sandbeds in fully stocked reefs, some worth $30K, with common tap water. it doesn't get meaner than that.

no bottle bac used, gimmick identified.


I asked BRS on their youtube page if someone can clean a cloudy reef tank by laying out activated carbon pellets on the floor of a sump.

I figure if they respond, they'll say "no, it has to be inside a filter so water is channeled through it"

the question is a segue so I can then ask them why biobricks are claimed to work without any water channeling. I'll update the discussion here when I get their answer. At least BRS is selling extra surface area which is the right way to boost bacteria if someone deemed their cycle unable, but without water channeling nothing is flowing through those bricks and the extra surface area they provide for nitrification is still marketed to you based on the fact we're trained to always think our live rocks aren't enough.

 

[LiquidSpace]

I need to add some more sand and have been reading this thread but just for my peace of mind, after rinsing with tap I really only need to rinse with RO once? Should I rinse and let it all sit in the bucket for a while with the RO?

 

[brandon429]

No it’s ready instantly

then verify your rinse prep in a clear glass of water before placing into the tank



thank you for posting!

when verified rinsed clean, set your sand into the tank in plastic gallon zip locks and dump it out, verified rinsed sand falls like snowglobe grains


look how I verified my rinse was done, before setting all my corals back in over this ( I rinse last in saltwater vs ro water, a small pico reef needs salinity in check and salt rinse final is best )




I was 100% sure that my system wouldn’t cloud up after that verification step. It would be neat if you could take a short video of your rinsed sand addition to let us see, make it laser clear for the win

 

[MB1227]

I’ve been lurking here for a while, about to upgrade from a 65g AIO to a 160 g (system wide) with a sump. Display is 120. My tank is going in the exact same spot so I can’t do a cycle before transferring everything over. After reading just about all the posts in this thread I’ve come up with my game plan and was looking for some feed back. I will gladly post updates / and pics of the process in return for the feed back.

-get a 20-30g tote and add approximately 20 more lbs of dry rock and a small piece of live rock from my current tank and run a pump and heater for the next 2-3 weeks (this may not be enough time, but I also wouldn’t be opposed to adding the new dry rock into the display of the new tank as long as there is no risk with this, and feedback would be appreciated) I would be using water from a water change for this

-make more salt water for the move, already have 30 gallons and counting, I do want to know if there’s any issue with changing salt brands during this process though… any insight is appreciated

-set up 1 large tote with a power head, airstone, and heater for live stock holding and siphon about half of water from the current tank to the tote

- fill a 5 g bucket half way with water from the current tank, use this bucket to dunk live rock clean then place rock pieces into a second large tote

-catch fish, inverts, and corals and place them into the tote with water, then siphon remaining tank water into the second holding tote where the rock is without disturbing the sand bed

- move the old tank, set up the new tank
(This will probably take a few hours alone)

- I’m going to be rinsing any sand (new or old, dry or ‘live’) thoroughly regardless however, I’m debating is there any benefit to using my old sand or new sand instead..

-add sand and rock to the tank, I’m going to swish the rocks in the tote a second time and give a final salt water rinse before putting them into the new DT

- start adding new salt water, ideally I would use all new water, but if I fall short, would there be an issue using water from the fish holding told and using a filter sock on the end of the siphon when using it to fill the tank? Obviously this would have to be done with the new tank mostly full right before transferring the fish so I can make sure temp and salinity match and the tank is ready for the fish

- add small bag of media from the old tank after rinsing in salt water to a media sock in the new tank (hoping for some more beneficial bacteria)

- add fish, inverts, and corals

My goal is to avoid a cycle this way as I can’t set up the new tank without breaking down the old tank. I’m so worried I’m going to mess this up or not have enough bacteria to skip cycle the new tank. Thank you in advance for any feedback!

 

[brandon429]

thank you so much for posting I'm 100% sure we can skip cycle it without buying any bottled bacteria. you won't lose animals.

*that's a very low bioload tank already, mostly rock surface area. is it true that all that rock will be moved over to the new tank, and you're adding dry rocks in addition to that same # of rocks above to be moved over?

 

[MB1227]

thank you so much for posting I'm 100% sure we can skip cycle it without buying any bottled bacteria. you won't lose animals.

*that's a very low bioload tank already, mostly rock surface area. is it true that all that rock will be moved over to the new tank, and you're adding dry rocks in addition to that same # of rocks above to be moved over?

Thanks for getting back to me so quick!
Yes, all of this rock (about 80 lbs) will be transferred and I would like to add about 20 lbs more at least

 

[MB1227]

Thanks for getting back to me so quick!
Yes, all of this rock (about 80 lbs) will be transferred and I would like to add about 20 lbs more at least

Current livestock:
Porcupine puffer
Tomini tang
Bullet goby
One spot fox face
Pair of clowns
Lawnmower blenny
1 fire shrimp
Small BTA
Some zoa frags
small rock with GSP
Small rock with Xenia
Some snails and hermits

 

[MB1227]

Thanks for getting back to me so quick!
Yes, all of this rock (about 80 lbs) will be transferred and I would like to add about 20 lbs more at least

Current stocking list:
Porcupine puffer
Tomini tang
Bullet goby
One spot fox face
Pair of clowns
Lawnmower blenny
1 fire shrimp
Small BTA
Some zoa frags
small rock with GSP

 

[wpapaslow]

I'm a big fan of this thread. Especially as I get closer and closer to having my upgrade tank setup! I'll hold my questions until after MB is squared away though.

 

[MB1227]

I'm a big fan of this thread. Especially as I get closer and closer to having my upgrade tank setup! I'll hold my questions until after MB is squared away though.

I don’t mind you jumping in too, your post might help me as well