Old Ways vs New Ways of Reefing

[lesterfish]

Hi everyone! I’m doing some research to support my beliefs and experiences about the new ways of reefing. My question is a little bit more for the old timers like me who’ve done things the old way and new way.

I’ve been reefing for over 25 years and seen many changes over those years. One of the biggest changes I’ve seen is the use of dead rock and bottled bacterias to start tanks. In the old days we used ocean rock and that was pretty much it. No dead rock. No adding pods. No adding bacteria. Etc. Today the focus is avoiding pests and working to be careful about any additions to the tank. The “ugly phase” used to be maybe a week or two then everything balanced out. Today it seems like the first year of owning a tank is working to get to that point of balance. And in my opinion, much more expensive. Constant additions of bottled bacterias, chemicals, and pods is very costly.

Over a year ago, I setup a new tank using the newer methods. I did a negative space aquascape using dead Marco rocks. Did a fishless cycle. Then I introduced QT fish and QT CUC, All corals were dipped in peroxide and Coral Rx. All these preventative measures didn’t seem to help as some nasty periods arose that I never experienced on any of my other tanks. Various bacteria incidents such as cyano, various algaes of all different types, and dreaded dinos. Nutrients also seem to fluctuate more than days past. After a year, the tank is close to being where I want it. But it took over a year.

None of the 3 tanks I setup prior to this one had any of these issues. They were all started with established live rock. Specifically ocean rock. I understand the belief today is to avoid ocean rock as it may have various pests.

So my question is for those who’ve done both methods, did you have similar experiences? Was your ocean live rock tank easier to maintain, faster to cycle, need less additives like pods and bacterias, have shorter or no ugly periods, and generally more rewarding? Or do you prefer the new ways over the old ways?

Yup my last 2 setups both using dead rock and one going BB took over a year to settle. my least favorite was the BB, really missed the sand and the critters that go with it. The bacterial blooms were a pain with BB.

 

[KrisReef]

I would ordinarily prefer the old way, but I'm concerned about harvesting life rock. It seems like it comes from poorer countries, and the most beautiful reefs left in the world. Reefing is probably very low on factors that contribute to the damage to world reefs; but it's something we can do...

Thoughts?

Reefs naturally erode, branches break off, urchins bore and cause reefs to fragment and then those big swirling storms bust up the reefs, dead and alive and toss chunks the size of coffee tables and many many pounds of aquarium sized live rock onto the beaches and into the lagoons where they can be picked up and sent around the world except that the world has decided that scavenging live rock for the hobby is destructive.

The world is growing, and occassionally a developing country will dredge a harbor or dynamite a deeper shipping channel for commercial purposes. There are a lot of places where these rocks could be recycled to keep the living organisms alive and in good hands in a reef tank. But that kind of recycling is illegal in most places, and its a shameful waste of resources imo.

The poorer countries could use the bread. Those econmically challenged areas are doing more farming of corals now and it would be simple for them to grab the rocks tossed by the waves along the shoreline back into a live rock farm along side their frag growouts and provide more than enough live rock for the hobby without destroying the planet simply just relocating some of the natural erosion or recycling dredging spoils.

There is a south facing beach on Cayman Brac that is covered with sun bleached live rock that the ocean has tossed upon the shore. When I first saw it I could have cried looking at a billion dollars of wasted rock piled upon the beaches where no one would swim or lay out because people like to lay out on sand and not cobbles and boulders. They were looking for a developer to dynamite the tiny harbor and dredge a deeper port so that the cruise ships could dock there and bring economic opportunities for everyone. One tiny island could supply the planet with live rock for the next 100 years, so go my thoughts on the economy of illegal live rock to protect naturally and man made erosion on ocean fronts in the tropics.

 

[Ron bogue]

A local fish store sells jakarta live rock. It is very good, and readily available

Qŵhere is this ? Located ande mail ID
If possible

 

[mfinn]

A local fish store sells jakarta live rock. It is very good, and readily available

That would be interesting.
Do you have a link to where it's being sold at?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Do you feel something in marco rocks or any of these other rocks are fueling these phases? Very intriguing to me that just adding some rock to a healthily long term established system created issues. Are they loaded with something that is fuel for uglies?

The issue was not with the whole system, just the lump of pearly white dry aragonite added. The same happens if you add a bunch of fresh white rubble, course sand, etc.

The fresh aragonite has no bacterial film, no coralline or any other biological life. It is ready to likely absorb whatever phosphate to come to equilibrium with the water column. It is a ripe surface to give that phosphate back up to fuel algae and diatoms.

I don't think that they are loaded, but even if they are they will quickly come to equilibrium with the water column.

 

[Borat]

Tuesday April 19, 2022
Water, rock and sand went in

Tuesday April 26, 2022
Multiple corals including SPS went in

Wednesday May 4, 2022
Started moving all coral from other tank in

Well over 95% of the rock was dry. One bag of Ocean Direct sand was added with the rest being dry. Haven’t lost a coral to this day in this tank knock on wood

Don't add sand, lol... you can still remove it..

 

[RealReefHobbyist]

The issue was not with the whole system, just the lump of pearly white dry aragonite added. The same happens if you add a bunch of fresh white rubble, course sand, etc.

The fresh aragonite has no bacterial film, no coralline or any other biological life. It is ready to likely absorb whatever phosphate to come to equilibrium with the water column. It is a ripe surface to give that phosphate back up to fuel algae and diatoms.

I don't think that they are loaded, but even if they are they will quickly come to equilibrium with the water column.

Makes complete sense!

 

[alabella1]

I cured this rock for 3 months while I was waiting for the tank. I also gave it light for the last month while I was curing it. It is already growing coraline. It’s been in the display tank since Dec 18th. There is no cycle like this. I transferred the contents of a 25g nano tank in here and a bunch of of other fish that I was quarantining. Insta- Reef . A few days shy of the first month.

Did you glue the rocks at all or just slap them together like I did?

 

[RealReefHobbyist]

The issue was not with the whole system, just the lump of pearly white dry aragonite added. The same happens if you add a bunch of fresh white rubble, course sand, etc.

The fresh aragonite has no bacterial film, no coralline or any other biological life. It is ready to likely absorb whatever phosphate to come to equilibrium with the water column. It is a ripe surface to give that phosphate back up to fuel algae and diatoms.

I don't think that they are loaded, but even if they are they will quickly come to equilibrium with the water column.

Do you have any experience using CaribSea Life Rock? I’m curious if the coating helps or hurts. I’ve heard some people feel it limits biological filtration but I wonder if it helps create a better surface for the bacterial film.

 

[jackson6745]

Did you glue the rocks at all or just slap them together like I did?

This is 7 large rocks. Didn’t have to glue them. They’re heavy and with all of those branches, they locked in place. It was a 5 minute aquascape

 

[Sophie"s mom]

That would be interesting.
Do you have a link to where it's being sold at?

I don’t know about a link, but the pet store is Aquariums Unlimited in Virginia Beach, Virginia. I think they sell it for $15.00 per pound.

 

[Sophie"s mom]

Qŵhere is this ? Located ande mail ID
If possible

It is at a pet store in Virginia Beach, Virginia, name of the store is Aquariums Unlimited

 

[dmh41532]

I use dry rock for a few reasons, it’s significantly cheaper and is pest free. I’ve had some issues with very unwanted hitchhikers. One mantis shrimp. I also use bottled bacteria to speed up the process. Fritz definitely works the best in my experience.

 

[Sophie"s mom]

That would be interesting.
Do you have a link to where it's being sold at?

I d not have a link, but it is a pet store in Virginia Beach, Va. store name is Aquariums Unlimited.

 

[GARRIGA]

Perhaps placed in a different perspective. What if one could house live rock rubble of substantial volume external to the display. If 20 pounds of Tampa Bay sand/rubble equates to 100 pounds of same live rock because of increased surface area containing the same volume of beneficial bacteria then I don't logically see how the two aren't the same in purpose of use.

This sand/rubble doesn't need lighting. Can withstand greater amounts of flow since the sand won't be a concern. Can be placed inside and/or external to existing sumps. Think of it as a cryptic sump housed in a reactor/canister. Ran post mechanical filtration it wouldn't clog as easily which means constant flow of nutrients to process.

Sand could also be placed in a fluidized media reactor as those would increase the volume of oxygen provided and allow sand colliding with each other to kind of cleanse each other of dead surface bacteria. Really old school tech there.

Doesn't have to be only old or new way. You'd think with all the advancements that we'd find a way to combine both so that old ways were better utilized yet new ways can be enjoyed. Gotta admit that purple rock fascinates me

 

[Troylee]

Old skool all the way for me! Never had an issue and still don’t after coming back after many years and just keeping it super simple like the old days. I have an idea I’d like to try with a brand new tank and dry rock! I truly believe I could bypass the ugly phase easily and have zero problems with just the knowledge I’ve learned over the last year and experimenting with my current display where I never saw a spec of algae.

 

[Katrina71]

Since this has gone to the topic of rock... I'm looking to see if any of the old school reefers here still use coral skeletons in their scapes? I am going to in our new tank. Just wanted to see what you've done with yours.

 

[RealReefHobbyist]

Perhaps placed in a different perspective. What if one could house live rock rubble of substantial volume external to the display. If 20 pounds of Tampa Bay sand/rubble equates to 100 pounds of same live rock because of increased surface area containing the same volume of beneficial bacteria then I don't logically see how the two aren't the same in purpose of use.

This sand/rubble doesn't need lighting. Can withstand greater amounts of flow since the sand won't be a concern. Can be placed inside and/or external to existing sumps. Think of it as a cryptic sump housed in a reactor/canister. Ran post mechanical filtration it wouldn't clog as easily which means constant flow of nutrients to process.

Sand could also be placed in a fluidized media reactor as those would increase the volume of oxygen provided and allow sand colliding with each other to kind of cleanse each other of dead surface bacteria. Really old school tech there.

Doesn't have to be only old or new way. You'd think with all the advancements that we'd find a way to combine both so that old ways were better utilized yet new ways can be enjoyed. Gotta admit that purple rock fascinates me

Funny you say that lol. In some ways that’s what I’m getting at. I want to see if we can combine the old and the new. I have some thoughts on a way to do that and will post updates here as I work out a project. I did a teaser video of what I’m thinking.

A Better Way to Create Your Reef Aquarium Biome?- TEASER

 

[PotatoPig]

Do you have any experience using CaribSea Life Rock? I’m curious if the coating helps or hurts. I’ve heard some people feel it limits biological filtration but I wonder if it helps create a better surface for the bacterial film.

My 2c:

Started my tank with all dry rock + bottle bac. Have two rock formations, one at each side of the tank. One is caribsea life rock (the purple stuff) and the other is (was) the plain white dry rock.

I’ve had three “waves” of algae (Calothrix, Red Cyano, Green Cyano), each lasting about 10-14 days, each solved easily enough by something eating it.

Anyway, the first two seemed mostly evenly distributed, but the last (green Cyano) built up much much more (approx 5-10x) on the caribsea than on the plain rock, without any obvious flow/lighting differences. The plain rock also seems to have more early stage coralline algae on it, though that could be a product of it being harder to see on the caribsea. That said, the caribsea looks much better when it first goes in.

 

[RealReefHobbyist]

My 2c:

Started my tank with all dry rock + bottle bac. Have two rock formations, one at each side of the tank. One is caribsea life rock (the purple stuff) and the other is (was) the plain white dry rock.

I’ve had three “waves” of algae (Calothrix, Red Cyano, Green Cyano), each lasting about 10-14 days, each solved easily enough by something eating it.

Anyway, the first two seemed mostly evenly distributed, but the last (green Cyano) built up much much more (approx 5-10x) on the caribsea than on the plain rock, without any obvious flow/lighting differences. The plain rock also seems to have more early stage coralline algae on it, though that could be a product of it being harder to see on the caribsea. That said, the caribsea looks much better when it first goes in.

Awesome feedback!