Overflow idea

[Arsay Jr]

Hi everyone!

I am currently building a shallow tank 90*65*30 (cm) or 35*25*11(inch). My return goes throught the center bottom of my tank fully aquascaped around it. (like a volcano)

Since I want 4 clean (no equipement) sides.., I am considering my overflow also throught the bottom with a fully transparant acrylic pipe in my display (where the fishes will swim)

If my water height is at 11inch I would make the pipe 9inch so if my pump fails it can only drain 2inch of water height to my sump that will be big enough to take all water.
So that means that my main drain will also be my emergency drain. It will also be quiet since it's in a big volume of water and goes directly under the tank in the stand.

I have not seen anyone doing this (probably cause its a stupid idea). I have been thinking about leaking problems and how I would be able to solve them etc.
I also want to know if it's dangerous for the fish.. obviously I would make something that fit the pipe so they cant enter. BUT will they be sucked towards it when they pass or not?

Sorry for my English that goes all over the place. I hope you can make something out of this tough

 

[Tenecor Aquariums]

Hi everyone!

I am currently building a shallow tank 90*65*30 (cm) or 35*25*11(inch). My return goes throught the center bottom of my tank fully aquascaped around it. (like a volcano)

Since I want 4 clean (no equipement) sides.., I am considering my overflow also throught the bottom with a fully transparant acrylic pipe in my display (where the fishes will swim)

If my water height is at 11inch I would make the pipe 9inch so if my pump fails it can only drain 2inch of water height to my sump that will be big enough to take all water.
So that means that my main drain will also be my emergency drain. It will also be quiet since it's in a big volume of water and goes directly under the tank in the stand.

I have not seen anyone doing this (probably cause its a stupid idea). I have been thinking about leaking problems and how I would be able to solve them etc.
I also want to know if it's dangerous for the fish.. obviously I would make something that fit the pipe so they cant enter. BUT will they be sucked towards it when they pass or not?

Sorry for my English that goes all over the place. I hope you can make something out of this tough

It is not a stupid idea. We build aquariums similar to this all the time. Seeing your details would be nice. We designed and installed the original PetSmart store systems and they wanted a tank like you describe (but much bigger) as part of the original design. Below is an image of what I think you are trying to do. Please post a sketch.

 

[Arsay Jr]

Hi, thanks for the reply. Nice tank setup. But I was speaking of a overflow acrylic pipe without overflow box. Just the pipe. So means that nothing will touch the sides of the tank.

 

[EliVChalk97]

I don't see a problem for the fish if you scape the rock around the acrylic tube like a volcano. You would end up with rock poking out the top of the water if you're ok with that. Otherwise you could fashion a funnel-shaped mesh thing at the top of the tube that would prevent fish from being sucked into the tube.

 

[Arsay Jr]

Yes, that is infact the idea for the returning water. But I wanted to know if It's okay to have a transparent acrylic tube in the open display for water to go into my sump, so as a overflow function and not as a return function.

The volcano like you mention is what i'm doing with the return pvc hiding into the rocks.

 

[TheyGaveItToMe]

"If my water height is at 11inch I would make the pipe 9inch so if my pump fails it can only drain 2inch of water height to my sump that will be big enough to take all water."

This will not work. Your overflow height and water level will be the same.

 

[Arsay Jr]

This will not work. Your overflow height and water level will be the same.

So if i cut the acrylic tube at 11 inch and will be the same as water level it could work technically?

 

[Koh23]

I will be optimistic and say it could work, but, height of that drain pipe determines height of water in tank.

You could restrict via valve, so that total water level in tank is above this pipe, but it will be tricky to dial in flow to match return.

Why simply dont build true overflow in the middle of tank, so instead of having one pipe to drain, build overflow, 4 pieces of glass, pipes, bulks, etc.... And then mask whole structure with rock?

Yes, it will steal some space, but, its much safer, and after all, its the way that is meant to be done.....

 

[TheyGaveItToMe]

So if i cut the acrylic tube at 11 inch and will be the same as water level it could work technically?

Yes. But, the acrylic will eventually grow algae.

 

[Arsay Jr]

I will be optimistic and say it could work, but, height of that drain pipe determines height of water in tank.

You could restrict via valve, so that total water level in tank is above this pipe, but it will be tricky to dial in flow to match return.

Why simply dont build true overflow in the middle of tank, so instead of having one pipe to drain, build overflow, 4 pieces of glass, pipes, bulks, etc.... And then mask whole structure with rock?

Yes, it will steal some space, but, its much safer, and after all, its the way that is meant to be done.....

I see... It's the phisics that is necking me here. Well the reason I am not doing the overflowbox in the middle is cause I have a shallow tank, where I have a volcano structure in the middle where my return is hiden in. My tank is to small in size to make a center overflow-box and hide it properly. The idea is to create a clean reef island and room all around it for fish to freely swim. And also; It was also meant to save display space.

 

[TheyGaveItToMe]

I see... It's the phisics that is necking me here. Well the reason I am not doing the overflowbox in the middle is cause I have a shallow tank, where I have a volcano structure in the middle where my return is hiden in. My tank is to small in size to make a center overflow-box and hide it properly. The idea is to create a clean reef island and room all around it for fish to freely swim. And also; It was also meant to save display space.

Hide the overflow in middle and returns can go anywhere. And, return height doesn't matter.

 

[elysics]

I see... It's the phisics that is necking me here. Well the reason I am not doing the overflowbox in the middle is cause I have a shallow tank, where I have a volcano structure in the middle where my return is hiden in. My tank is to small in size to make a center overflow-box and hide it properly. The idea is to create a clean reef island and room all around it for fish to freely swim. And also; It was also meant to save display space.

You won't be able to clean an acrylic pipe nestled between rocks anyway, it won't stay clean for long, it will end up gray or purple or green, or all of those.

You could maybe chisel out a piece of rock and use it as a decorative cap/ pinnacle of your volcano to hide the overflow

 

[Arsay Jr]

You won't be able to clean an acrylic pipe nestled between rocks anyway, it won't stay clean for long, it will end up gray or purple or green, or all of those.

You could maybe chisel out a piece of rock and use it as a decorative cap/ pinnacle of your volcano to hide the overflow

You are right on that one. But It is the other way around. I want my return to be hidden in my volcano and my overflow (away from the rocks) near the sides. The overflow as a single transparant acrylic tube. So when you look over the tank you would have to look good and not directly see the overflow.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

So that means that my main drain will also be my emergency drain

This is impossible... A full siphon is a full siphon; an emergency drain is an emergency drain. One pipe cannot be both.

 

[Arsay Jr]

This is impossible... A full siphon is a full siphon; an emergency drain is an emergency drain. One pipe cannot be both.

Well.., That makes sence. But most systems have an overflow box with the main drain and the emergency drain, right?
but as I would not have a "box" I would not need a emergency drain because the main drain would be under my water level and so when my pump fail for some reason, it would only drop to just below my main drain (the acrylic tube) in the display and my sump would catch all that water.. and so technically it replaces at the same time the emergency drain. So that is why I said that it would be "2in1".

 

[bblumberg]

You need to allow for the possibility that your main drain gets clogged or its flow restricted over time. If this happens with your single drain design, you will experience a flood.

If I were you, I'd build an overflow box in the center of the tank, plumb it with Bean Animal or Herbie overflow and returns all in place, then disguise with rockwork.

 

[Arsay Jr]

You need to allow for the possibility that your main drain gets clogged or its flow restricted over time. If this happens with your single drain design, you will experience a flood.

If I were you, I'd build an overflow box in the center of the tank, plumb it with Bean Animal or Herbie overflow and returns all in place, then disguise with rockwork.

Yes. I agree. My tank is to small in size to make all in one overflow box and cover it up. Is there nothing like a automatic water level sensor that you can connect to your pump or to the electric socket of your pump? If the water reaches the max height that it will cut off the pump? If that does not exist it is not possible (unless I make another emergency tube next to the drain one. All in transparant acrylic or glass..

 

[o2manyfish]

It seems that you are not understanding how the gravity pulls the water down the drain -

1) The 'transparent' pipe is worthless. It's going to grow algae and coraline on both the outside and the inside - Which can't be cleaned.

2) A true overflow - that's going to double as your emergency drain --- This is beyond me how it's a 2 in 1 - but going with your wishes - a true overflow is going to be pulling air along with the water down the overflow pipe. This means that the 'Transparent' pipe - is not magically invisible in the tank but is is white flume of water and air -- when brand new - and then a green, brown, purple pipe when the tank is cycled. It's not going to be an invisible column of water.

To accomplish what you want - as minimal a plumbing as possible - Use a 2" bulkehead with a 2" pipe up to the surface thruough the bottom center of the tank. The Pipe will be approximately 10.5" tall - This gives you about 10.75" of water in an 11" deep tank - The water rises up and over the top of the pipe to fall down into the sump - So you have to take into account the level of water that rises above the edge of the pipe to then fall down the pipe.

Now with some trick plumbing pieces - up the center of the 2" pipe you could run a 1/2" or 3/4" return pipe that either comes straight up the center and goes up over the height of the overflow pipe and then makes a U turn and goes over the edge of the pipe as a return line. Or you can get fancy - which I did in my previous 300g Fish Only tank and run the return line up to the top of the overflow pipe and then custom mount the pipe thru the side of the overflow pipe - then nothing is showing above the water level - Working within a 2" pipe this is going to take some experience, skill and patience to accomplish. I did it with a 4" pipe and a 1" return line and it wasn't easy but it was sexy.

If you go with this 'style' you will have a single black pipe, that you can make into your volcano that handles both your overflow and return - all within the one pipe.

Dave B

 

[Arsay Jr]

It seems that you are not understanding how the gravity pulls the water down the drain -

1) The 'transparent' pipe is worthless. It's going to grow algae and coraline on both the outside and the inside - Which can't be cleaned.

2) A true overflow - that's going to double as your emergency drain --- This is beyond me how it's a 2 in 1 - but going with your wishes - a true overflow is going to be pulling air along with the water down the overflow pipe. This means that the 'Transparent' pipe - is not magically invisible in the tank but is is white flume of water and air -- when brand new - and then a green, brown, purple pipe when the tank is cycled. It's not going to be an invisible column of water.

To accomplish what you want - as minimal a plumbing as possible - Use a 2" bulkehead with a 2" pipe up to the surface thruough the bottom center of the tank. The Pipe will be approximately 10.5" tall - This gives you about 10.75" of water in an 11" deep tank - The water rises up and over the top of the pipe to fall down into the sump - So you have to take into account the level of water that rises above the edge of the pipe to then fall down the pipe.

Now with some trick plumbing pieces - up the center of the 2" pipe you could run a 1/2" or 3/4" return pipe that either comes straight up the center and goes up over the height of the overflow pipe and then makes a U turn and goes over the edge of the pipe as a return line. Or you can get fancy - which I did in my previous 300g Fish Only tank and run the return line up to the top of the overflow pipe and then custom mount the pipe thru the side of the overflow pipe - then nothing is showing above the water level - Working within a 2" pipe this is going to take some experience, skill and patience to accomplish. I did it with a 4" pipe and a 1" return line and it wasn't easy but it was sexy.

If you go with this 'style' you will have a single black pipe, that you can make into your volcano that handles both your overflow and return - all within the one pipe.

Dave B

Thanks for this reply. Alot of information! But I would not agree with your point 2 - a pipe that is 2" or lower below my water level will never suck air from that deep. I would fix that pipe onto a bulkhead and can be removed for cleaning (just close valve under and take it out).

BUT I have never heard of your technique with overflow and return in one pipe..., could you link me something that shows how that goes perhaps? I'm interested. People are fast to call thing not possible and i'm sure people who owned reefs 30 years ago are also opening their eyes on the tech we got nowadays.

I will for sure try to find your method! Thanks mate!

 

[Koh23]

Well, its not one pipe, if i understood what is going on..

There is one large diameter pipe for drain, and inside her is smaller diameter pipe for return.

Personaly, i would newer trust valve to have pressure of whole tank water on itself, not even for cleaning.

Also, i would newer relly on single pipe, all u need is single crack, flaw in material, etc, and there is no limit how much water can be drained.....