Par questions

IIDRYWATERII

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If my light gives out 200 par max and my spectrum % are the following :
Does this mean it’s not running at 200 par….. By increasing the percentages of red green and white the par will increase or is at 200 par and the percentages are just the colour

25 - red
40 - green
100 - blue
60 - white

thanks
 

mdb_talon

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In that scenario you would not get the max par the light is capable of unless all were at 100%. However especially for red and green i imagine you have very few bulbs in that spectrum and contribute just a small percentage of the overall par rating.
 
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IIDRYWATERII

IIDRYWATERII

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In that scenario you would not get the max par the light is capable of unless all were at 100%. However especially for red and green i imagine you have very few bulbs in that spectrum and contribute just a small percentage of the overall par rating.
Thanks now makes sense
 

oreo54

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Thanks now makes sense
Par, as defined, is all photons between 400 and 700nm.
Newest thinking uses like 380 to 740.
Doesn't matter what " color" the photons are.

In your example it "roughly" means you are using 225/400 x 200 of the available par.
112.5 par.
There are things that distort the linearity but usually inconsequential overall.

Pur and other factors like looks aside as well.
Only real danger from what I've read is not to push red into a high proportion of the overall par.

YMMV...
 

mdb_talon

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In your example it "roughly" means you are using 225/400 x 200 of the available par.
112.5 par.

That is not what it means at all. You cannot just add up the percentages he uses of each color. Unless he has a very unusual light 90%+ of the bulbs are going to be the white and blue spectrum bulbs. So he probably has nearly half his lights running at 100% and nearly half his lights running at 60%. Without knowing the exact makeup of how many of each bulb he has there is no way to make a good guess as to his actual par related to the max par rating of the fixture based off the percentages he has each color set to. A very rough guess though is going to be much closer to the max par though assuming a normal mix of blue/white/red/green bulbs where almost all of the bulbs are on the white or blue channels.
 

oreo54

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That is not what it means at all. You cannot just add up the percentages he uses of each color. Unless he has a very unusual light 90%+ of the bulbs are going to be the white and blue spectrum bulbs. So he probably has nearly half his lights running at 100% and nearly half his lights running at 60%. Without knowing the exact makeup of how many of each bulb he has there is no way to make a good guess as to his actual par related to the max par rating of the fixture based off the percentages he has each color set to. A very rough guess though is going to be much closer to the max par though assuming a normal mix of blue/white/red/green bulbs where almost all of the bulbs are on the white or blue channels.
OPP'S
Yes I was considering all channels equal.

You are correct if they have say 20 blue diodes but 2 red diodes my whole thing does break down ..

HORRIBLE Senior moment .
THANKS
 

oreo54

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So basically, yes. If you run all your channel at 100%, you might have stronger PAR (IE:200), but your PUR might be at 40% (wasting 60% of energy on useless light, and having virtually only 80 PAR for the corals).
There is no useless light..

Image1-2b4379fbae73f79e557187d8716d28a6.gif

 
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alain Bouchard

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There is no useless light..

Image1-2b4379fbae73f79e557187d8716d28a6.gif

I see that this graphic is specifically for favia type coral. Normally, the graphics showing for general type of corals present a difference of about 3 to 1 on the spectrum range 400-500 vs 550-650. So, I dont know if this particular type of coral have more capacity at absorbing a wider spectrum. (source https://reefs.com/magazine/light-in-the-reef-aquaria/)
At that, you have to take for account the light penetration in water, whereas redder/green colored light usually dont reach the corals in nature, meaning they evolved and are thriving in nature without those spectrum range. My point being: are they necessary, no; do they hurt the corals, no; do they help the corals, maybe, but on a negligible level.
But in the end, you can use more of the longer wavelength if you prefer the visual from these, as long as you provide the shorter wavelength for the growth and coloration.
 

oreo54

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Green is one if the deeper penetrating wavelengths.
Red and some uv ish the worst.
One thing to consider is even though say red is attenuated low rapidly the gross solar output is much higher than in most tank lights.

Say solar red is reduced by 80% that could be considerably more than one red diode at 100% over a 24" deep tank.

Point is it is all " complicated" and there is no argument blue light is more err efficient and prone to less attenuation.

acroporaaction-jpg.2089776
 

jda

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In a reef tank, there are proteins in every coral that can use every bit of spectrum for some sort of energy, sunscreen, pigments, moving energy between photosystems, etc from about 350 to 850nm. Most proteins have wide ranges of acceptability from light. Wider spectrum produces more color... some just must windex it up to look at them.

The LED companies and some other manufacturers have started with the narrower ranges are better for corals and they are not right and I really dislike that people parrot the stuff from them. The main lies:
  • Corals come from where only blue penetrates - total BS and nearly all that we have in our tanks are collected on one breath. Anybody know the risk, cost and training required to dive to where only blue light penetrates? Where most corals come from is about 6500k and most are even out of water for parts of the day.
  • Corals only need between X-X and then X-X nanometers. Also, BS. Everything from about 350nm to 850nm has value and can be used.
Here is a mushroom grown in GE 6500k lights. It is hard to find spectrum chart on this bulb (for me), but if it is close to a Giesemann Tropic, then it has massive amounts of red, green and yellow in addition to massive amounts of blue. Can any of you with just 400-500 and 550 do any better? All 5 colors of a Poletti? Nearly everybody will do better to get their corals more daylight for much of the time and then blue-it-up to look at them if they are not pretty enough on their own.
Screen Shot 2021-10-20 at 6.06.27 PM.png


As stated, the issue with PAR is that it does not capture spectrum outside of the visible range and it is soft on the edges... and also that it will sample spikes that have no use or even can be damaging. It can be a fine tool if used appropriately and as a guide.
 

jda

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That is as close and I have every gotten. The ones that I use have a different name, but I imagine that they are pretty close. They really can grow and color some coral... not great to look at, but that isn't where I use them.

Lasse posed a whole bunch of research about green and how it can penetrate deep into and around corals to provide light underneath and inside of stuff. It was really interesting, but showed some pretty conclusive proof that it is a good spectrum add. It loses energy as it does this and provides yellow and red which makes blues look better.
 

Brent Bohannon

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The more I use my par meter, the more I think it is a stupid way to look at light. Looking at it in terms of 150 for LPS is good and 50 is bad doesn't work. I think how the par is reached is far more important. Corals use certain spectrums more than others. 150 par of green light is much less "powerful" than 150 par of white light. Be careful increasing an individual spectrum too quickly. If you decide you want more white or blue light, you can't just bump it all the way up. Greens and reds not as much of a problem. Par meters are only accepted because it's the best we have. Someday we will have a better way of doing it.
 

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