Part C

[mikem.dvm]

I've been running the balling method with BRS bulk A and B with the trace minerals added and then running the balling part C. I'm just curouous how critical the part C is? I have 4 dose pumps. Three are used for A, B, and C and one is used for carbon dosing. I want to dose amino acids and I'm considering stopping part C or having to buy more dosing pumps.

Just curious

 

[Pod_01]

I believe you can dose part C once a week if desired so you could dose it by hand.

PartC role in Balling method is critical because it maintains ionic balance. If not your aquarium water will turn into salt solution…

Here is great article that explains how the system works:

Thread 'How a Two Part Alkalinity and Calcium System Works, and Why it Matters'
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/h...cium-system-works-and-why-it-matters.1044570/

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I recommend using part C. How important it is depends on how much A and B you are dosing, and how much water you regularly change.

 

[BZOFIQ]

I recommend using part C. How important it is depends on how much A and B you are dosing, and how much water you regularly change.

There is a lot of threads on this but I'll ask about my specific scenario.


@Randy Holmes-Farley

I daily dose Sodium Bicarbonate to maintain my ALK at around 8-8.5. I mix BRS Sodium Bicarbonate mixed 100 gram / 2.5L - I dose 100ml of this solution per day.

My calcium stays around 420 and my mag around 1300. I don't do regular water changes but do "large" water changes when my nitrates need to be knocked down (80/160 out of 350 G).

Given that I only dose ALK and not Calcium, should I dose Part-C to maintain any balance?

I never worried about adding calcium because its mostly a softies with few LPS setup.

Please advise. Thanks in advance.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

There is a lot of threads on this but I'll ask about my specific scenario.


@Randy Holmes-Farley

I daily dose Sodium Bicarbonate to maintain my ALK at around 8-8.5. I mix BRS Sodium Bicarbonate mixed 100 gram / 2.5L - I dose 100ml of this solution per day.

My calcium stays around 420 and my mag around 1300. I don't do regular water changes but do "large" water changes when my nitrates need to be knocked down (80/160 out of 350 G).

Given that I only dose ALK and not Calcium, should I dose Part-C to maintain any balance?

I never worried about adding calcium because its mostly a softies with few LPS setup.

Please advise. Thanks in advance.

It’s certainly an unusual situation. I expect the total alk dose can’t be very large if you never need to dose calcium, so I’d just not bother with Part C. :)

 

[BZOFIQ]

It’s certainly an unusual situation. I expect the total alk dose can’t be very large if you never need to dose calcium, so I’d just not bother with Part C. :)

Thanks for responding Randy.

Can you elaborate on unusual situation please - perhaps I'm missing something.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thanks for responding Randy.

Can you elaborate on unusual situation please - perhaps I'm missing something.

Sure.

If you use a sulfur denitrator (which depletes alk), the dose of alk may be going mostly to replace that loss rather than calcification.

If you dose ammonium chloride (which depletes alk), the dose of alk may be going mostly to replace that loss rather than calcification.

If you use tap water, the evaporation replacement may contain significant calcium, in which case the alk dose may still be substantial without depleting calcium.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Sure.

If you use a sulfur denitrator (which depletes alk), the dose of alk may be going mostly to replace that loss rather than calcification.

If you dose ammonium chloride (which depletes alk), the dose of alk may be going mostly to replace that loss rather than calcification.

If you use tap water, the evaporation replacement may contain significant calcium, in which case the alk dose may still be substantial without depleting calcium.

Thanks for expanding on this....

I've used sulfur denitrator in the past but not at the moment due to peri pump failure a while back.

I dont dose ammonium chloride

I dont use tap, RODI only here for this setup for both Top-off and water changes (rather rare)


If I stop dosing Sodium Bicarbonate and dont do water changes the ALK will slowly drift from 8.0 to 6.7 over 5-6 weeks. Started auto-dosing just to keep it stable.

Measured Mag yesterday using Hanna - 1100, ICP month ago was 1296 but I didnt measure to see if they match, salinity is at 1.024 as of last night which I will slowly bring back up.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thanks for expanding on this....

I've used sulfur denitrator in the past but not at the moment due to peri pump failure a while back.

I dont dose ammonium chloride

I dont use tap, RODI only here for this setup for both Top-off and water changes (rather rare)


If I stop dosing Sodium Bicarbonate and dont do water changes the ALK will slowly drift from 8.0 to 6.7 over 5-6 weeks. Started auto-dosing just to keep it stable.

Measured Mag yesterday using Hanna - 1100, ICP month ago was 1296 but I didnt measure to see if they match, salinity is at 1.024 as of last night which I will slowly bring back up.

I don't think that result is plausibly accurate unless the salinity is much lower now. To drop 196 ppm in magnesium would need a matching drop in calcium (or dosing of calcium) of at least 2,000 ppm in that time frame. Since you are not adding any calcium, this drop seems extremely unlikely to be mag consumption. There is no other way magnesium is consumed.

Magnesium testing is often highly inaccurate/variable.

 

[BZOFIQ]

I don't think that result is plausibly accurate unless the salinity is much lower now. To drop 196 ppm in magnesium would need a matching drop in calcium (or dosing of calcium) of at least 2,000 ppm in that time frame. Since you are not adding any calcium, this drop seems extremely unlikely to be mag consumption. There is no other way magnesium is consumed.

Magnesium testing is often highly inaccurate/variable.

Yeah, I dont think that Hanna is accurate but don't have another test kit to verify ATM.

I need a proper test kit for calcium and magnesium pronto - can you recommend something accurate?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Yeah, I dont think that Hanna is accurate but don't have another test kit to verify ATM.

I need a proper test kit for calcium and magnesium pronto - can you recommend something accurate?

I do not recommend magnesium testing and I do not do it.

Salifert calcium is reportedly good. Avoid Hanna calcium, IMO.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/just-say-no-to-magnesium-testing-rmm-is-born.1017528/

 

[BZOFIQ]

I do not recommend magnesium testing and I do not do it.

Salifert calcium is reportedly good. Avoid Hanna calcium, IMO.

I almost never tested MAG so I'm not sure what the trend is. Hanna doesnt have great feedback on this test either.


I do alk, nitrate and Phosphate pretty often lately to see how things are swinging with changes in media.

I know RowaPhos lowers phosphate so perhaps that is what I am replenishing with auto dosing the ALK.

So the plan is to add Calcium to regular testing to make sure my CA and ALK are in range and not worry about the rest - correct?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I almost never tested MAG so I'm not sure what the trend is. Hanna doesnt have great feedback on this test either.


I do alk, nitrate and Phosphate pretty often lately to see how things are swinging with changes in media.

I know RowaPhos lowers phosphate so perhaps that is what I am replenishing with auto dosing the ALK.

So the plan is to add Calcium to regular testing to make sure my CA and ALK are in range and not worry about the rest - correct?

If calcium is not declining, I'd dose alk and needed, and ignore everything else except maybe trace elements.

 

[BZOFIQ]

If calcium is not declining, I'd dose alk and needed, and ignore everything else except maybe trace elements.

Will do.

I ordered a quality test kit for Ca to self-test more often.

Thanks much.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

You're welcome.

Happy Reefing. :)

 

[BZOFIQ]

@Randy Holmes-Farley

Ok, Calcium test kit is in; did two tests just to be sure if I'm getting same results.

Ignoring the calcium shows :) !

I'm at 330 with Alk at 8.2.


With no SPS here, what do you recommend doing to adjust?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

@Randy Holmes-Farley

Ok, Calcium test kit is in; did two tests just to be sure if I'm getting same results.

Ignoring the calcium shows :) !

I'm at 330 with Alk at 8.2.


With no SPS here, what do you recommend doing to adjust?

Thanks in advance.

I’d raise it with calcium chloride. Many brands or hobby products are suitable.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Thanks.

Once I get it to correct levels, I guess I'm going back to A/B/C.

 

[BZOFIQ]

@Randy Holmes-Farley

OK, read your articles about the balanced CA/ALK dosing and the export of ALK with water changes to remove high Nitrates. I have been previously doing LARGE (80-120G at a clip) water changes to get nitrates under control. I have stopped back in September as after re-arranging my Siporax baskets (from high flow to low flow) my nitrates seem to be stable 26-29 for past 3 months.

So it seems in the past I've been replacing/adding ALK but never added calcium in equal doses creating a misbalance.

Since my set of previous posts I have been adding Ca using both the ESV Ca and now Ca Chloride (also from ESV)

Here is the strange thing.

Last I tested using both RedSea and Salifer (I got both to be sure) kits I was somewhere between 330-350 with Ca, after two weeks and adding nearly 1L of ESV B-Ionic Calcium part, there has been no uptick on Calcium level. I know I mentioned that it's mostly softies with few LPS but could the Coraline be consuming that much calcium?

This week I've switched to Calcium Chloride, Mixed 200 gram to 2L, dosing 200mls daily into about 350 Gallons of water total. Am I adding it too slow/not enough?

Thanks for your help.