Pest ID please

Hammmerhead · May 11, 2010

Two of these spots showed up over night. Never had pest issues, so I appreciate any info. Im guessing a flat worm, but I dont know. Found the spot of goo on a area that was a similar "white" (tissue damage) after I removed it. I cant get a decent picture of it and my sight is too bad to take a guess as to what it is. I've had this tort several years since it was a half an inch so Im am worried not just about it, but the rest of my SPS. Thank guys.

You can see the critter inbetween the branches in this photo before I removed it.

With Flash

soccerbag · May 11, 2010

Hard to tell from the pic. Although the damage to the acro looks to be AEFW. Is there a hard outer shell to the parasite in the bucket or is it just flat?

Nicks387 · May 11, 2010

Dude, I am sorry to be the one to break the bad news but its definately AEFW's The small white dots on the corals body are consistent with AEFW's. I have a guy in my local club that has them and has been documenting his battles with them. Nasty little buggers....

Hammmerhead · May 11, 2010

Thanks for the info guys. Just googled AEFW and it wasnt pretty with all the hits. I added two new large pieces of LR a few weeks ago. I bet thats where they came from. I will keep the thread updated on what I do and the outcome.

soccerbag · May 11, 2010

Just a few tips Hammerhead....take a deep breath. It sucks to first find out that you have them. There are, however, many reefers who live successfully with them and have thriving reefs. Your first step is to figure out how many you have in the tank. You can either take a turkey baster to the acros (all of them) and blast every inch of them with the baster (quick, short bursts). If they are on the corals, they will come off and start to float in the water column. You can also accomplish this with a maxijet 1200. Anything weaker than a MJ1200 will not knock them off. They hold on tight to the corals. This will not dislodge eggs, however.

If you just have a few acro frags / colonies, you can also quarantine them but you need a separate tank to do that. A dip will not do it unless you baste the crap out of the corals with a baster while dipping. Even then, it will not kill the eggs. Just be diligent with your basting. Do you have a wrasse in your tank? Six line and yellow coris wrasses love to eat these suckers in the water colum and the six line may pick them off of corals. Most fish will devour them once they are in the water column though.

Just don't do anything too radical without giving it a lot of thought first. It would help to post your journey in the SPS forum as there are many folks who can help you through it. Feel free to ask any questions you may have. Opinions are a dime a dozen and there are many products that "claim" to help. Your fellow reefers here can help you so don't hesitate to ask....

Best of luck to you in your journey.

Hammmerhead · May 11, 2010

soccerbag said:
Just a few tips Hammerhead....take a deep breath. It sucks to first find out that you have them. There are, however, many reefers who live successfully with them and have thriving reefs. Your first step is to figure out how many you have in the tank. You can either take a turkey baster to the acros (all of them) and blast every inch of them with the baster (quick, short bursts). If they are on the corals, they will come off and start to float in the water column. You can also accomplish this with a maxijet 1200. Anything weaker than a MJ1200 will not knock them off. They hold on tight to the corals. This will not dislodge eggs, however.

If you just have a few acro frags / colonies, you can also quarantine them but you need a separate tank to do that. A dip will not do it unless you baste the crap out of the corals with a baster while dipping. Even then, it will not kill the eggs. Just be diligent with your basting. Do you have a wrasse in your tank? Six line and yellow coris wrasses love to eat these suckers in the water colum and the six line may pick them off of corals. Most fish will devour them once they are in the water column though.

Just don't do anything too radical without giving it a lot of thought first. It would help to post your journey in the SPS forum as there are many folks who can help you through it. Feel free to ask any questions you may have. Opinions are a dime a dozen and there are many products that "claim" to help. Your fellow reefers here can help you so don't hesitate to ask....

Best of luck to you in your journey.

Thanks a lot Soccerbag. I going to keep a carefull eye on everything each day. I check all of my SPS and all of them are clean except for

this Granulosa. He had two small spots on him underneath. This coral was sitting right next to my blue tort as well. I have a feeling I will get my moneys worth with this fiasco.

I have had this coral several years also since it was even smaller than this.

I will be wrasse shopping this weekend and reading on the best product to dip with. If they spread I will have to break down my tank which wont be fun, but I will deal with it.

soccerbag · May 11, 2010

Man, that's one awesome granulosa. If you only saw a few come off of the granulosa, then you may have caught it early. And that's a good thing. I would start basting all of your acros about 3 times per week. If you see them come off, just suction them out with the same baster.

A six line may help but they can be aggressive as well - just keep that in mind. I don't want you to start another problem while trying to fix another....mine is a model citizen but others will tell you that they can be bullies! If you are basting regularly, then you should be able to stay ahead of them (meaning that your corals will grow faster than they can eat them). Just make sure you are basting ALL OVER the corals (at the base, tips, branches, etc). AEFW may lay eggs on the coral, at the base, or on the rock close by. Sometimes the clusters are visible. If you can see any egg clusters, be sure to scrape them off asap.

Good news is that if that is a recent pic of your granulosa, they haven't done much damage at all. Good dips to use are (Revive, Tropic Marin Pro Coral Cure, or a Lugol's dip - to name a few). Just make sure that you are basting while dipping to get everything off that you can. This can stress the acros out though so just be careful what you dip and how often.

They should not spread now that you are starting to take measures to get them under control. It doesn't sound like you have a major infestation on your hands. Take a look once your lights go out tonight. Take a flash light and look at all of your acros. If you see similar white spots, it's typically a good indicator that they are nearby...

wingman1234 · May 11, 2010

will interceptor kill aefw

soccerbag · May 11, 2010

wingman1234 said:
will interceptor kill aefw

No it will not. Interceptor is only known / proven to kill redbugs and it will have zero effect on AEFW.

Hammmerhead · May 12, 2010

soccerbag said:
No it will not. Interceptor is only known / proven to kill redbugs and it will have zero effect on AEFW.

So nothing like Betadine, Fluke tabs, etc. killes them, it just makes them turn loose of the coral? Is this correct Soccerbag? I took a look last night with the lights off and I have them worse than I was hoping. I have a Emerald, blue tipped stag that is about 14" across and its dotted up pretty bad . The two large pieces of L.R. I just added had a bunch of tiny starfish on them and must have been infested with the AEFW's.

Im headed to Farmers and Home supply at lunch to check out the big black feeder bins that many people use as sumps. Hopefully I can construct a decent Quarantine tank with this. I have been wanting to set up a growout and frag tank so I guess here is my wish only not the way I was expecting. The thing is, Im going to have to set it up in my shop out behind my house which has mowers, weedeaters and all that kind of stuff and is pretty fumey from the equipment and gas cans. Granted the shop is about 700 sq. feet and air conditioned, Im still worried that the fumes and smell will have an effect on the Quar. tank. I figure I will bring my skimmer out and place it in the Quar. tank....(or maybe just on the weekends) and see if the L.R. will do its job in my Display tank and keep things in check with a few added water changes. Another thought I am considering is breaking the tank down completely and killing all the rock and starting from scratch. I read where it sounded like Melev? (sp) preferred the fluke tabs over the betadine. Does anyone have a recommendation on what to dip with?.... I am going to borrow a single 400 watt ballast from a friend and use a 20K bulb to try and keep the SPS happy while in the Quar. tank. I have had a reef tank since 1992 and have never had this issue, although I didnt start keeping SPS until around 5 years ago. The good thing is I have everything fragged and my frags show no bites, but I hate the thought of losing my colonies...especially my my Granulosa and my Echinata. I have a couple of corals that have large bases and will have to be broke from the piece of L.R. they are attached to.

The victims before the outbreak

That Emerald stag is about 14-16 inches across now

An older photo

fishypets · May 12, 2010

Sorry to hear about your AEFW..

What is this acro please?

Hammmerhead · May 12, 2010

fishypets said:
Sorry to hear about your AEFW..

What is this acro please?

It is an Echinata that I think is an Aussie variety. I have heard it called Blue Boa, but cant say for certain which one it actually is.

Check out this frag. Blue Boa Australian Acropora Echinata *Live Reef Coral - eBay (item 400120878486 end time May-13-10 19:20:32 PDT)

Nicks387 · May 12, 2010

These went through my local club years ago and I have done some research on them. If you decide to QT and take them on then you will probably be able to save some of the bigger colonies like that emerald stag that have an open growth form. As you can see into the branches and can blast them off good and see if theres any eggs. Its the tight growing ones that will be tough since you may see small egg clusters inside the corals branches where you can't reach to scrape them off. These are the ones you may have to chop up to save. I also know that for some reason they prefer to go after milles and tri colors first so thats where to start your battles. They may be all over 1 coral and not at all on another but eventually they do move on to all the acros. Make sure to keep the closest eye on the bases and if you see any dead tissue check for eggs. You will want to get as much of the corals base off the rock as possible and epoxy the part of the base thats still on the rock after cutting off the colony so you are sure they will be starved out. Leave no trace of any acro's in the tank and starve them for a couple of months to be sure they are all out of the system. I believe birdsnests and pocci's and stylo's are o.k to leave alone as they don't eat those but I am not 100% certain so get a second opinion on that one. They do not eat any monti's as well. Good Luck
You have a beautiful tank by the way.

Hammmerhead · May 12, 2010

nicks387 said:
These went through my local club years ago and I have done some research on them. If you decide to QT and take them on then you will probably be able to save some of the bigger colonies like that emerald stag that have an open growth form. As you can see into the branches and can blast them off good and see if theres any eggs. Its the tight growing ones that will be tough since you may see small egg clusters inside the corals branches where you can't reach to scrape them off. These are the ones you may have to chop up to save. I also know that for some reason they prefer to go after milles and tri colors first so thats where to start your battles. They may be all over 1 coral and not at all on another but eventually they do move on to all the acros. Make sure to keep the closest eye on the bases and if you see any dead tissue check for eggs. You will want to get as much of the corals base off the rock as possible and epoxy the part of the base thats still on the rock after cutting off the colony so you are sure they will be starved out. Leave no trace of any acro's in the tank and starve them for a couple of months to be sure they are all out of the system. I believe birdsnests and pocci's and stylo's are o.k to leave alone as they don't eat those but I am not 100% certain so get a second opinion on that one. They do not eat any monti's as well. Good Luck
You have a beautiful tank by the way.

Thank you very much for the info and kind words Nick. I will try and document this event as close as possible. Anyone that has any info or experience with this issue, feel free to post
as I can use all the info I can at this time.

soccerbag · May 12, 2010

I agree 100% with what Nick posted above. I just got home a didn't get a chance to comment sooner. Even a small trace of acro is enough to keep them going so you will have to get every bit of acro out of your system if you're gonna QT. They cannot survive without SPS and will typically die within 21-30 days ) if not sooner. With these nice colonies you have, you may want to try the basting method for a while to see if you can stay ahead of them. I would hate to see you break down that gorgeous tank but you have to do what you have to do. To make it easier, you can just buy a MJ1200 and use that instead. You should start to notice fewer and fewer each week. You will need to suction them out of the water column or have fish that will eat them. Tangs will also eat them (along with most anything else you throw in the tank...lol). You could get a six line that will hunt for them. One will not cure the problem though. You must mount an offensive attack against them.

Others will surely chime in as this pest is WAY more common than you would think....

Keep us posted. I LOVE your tank btw!

Hammmerhead · May 12, 2010

Thanks again Craig for all your help and compliments. I just added the Salifert Flatworm exit to the tank as a first measure. I saw only one floater after 30 min. I then doubled up which was the whole bottle and started to see some smaller ones. I have seen no change at all in the fish or corals since I added it almost 2.5 hours ago which I hope stays that way. I also added a Coris Wrasse to the main tank.

Im almost done setting up the QT tank and I picked up some Melafix to dip with. Luke is sending me a SWC 160 cone to run in the QT which I am pretty excited to check out.
I am hoping to be able to start dipping by Saturday. Im gonna have to check out the temp. swing overnight and see If I will need a heater. I have the QT tank setup in a small shop out back that has a window unit AC. Hope I can keep the water cool enough, but I am sure not looking forward to electrical bill.

soccerbag · May 12, 2010

Yeah, Flatworm Exit doesn't always work on AEFW's. It works better on red planaria than it does on AEFW. Others have dosed it with success - and you will hear others tell you that it didn't do anything for them. QT will be the best way to completely rid the tank of them. Keep us posted!

Hammmerhead · May 13, 2010

soccerbag said:
Yeah, Flatworm Exit doesn't always work on AEFW's. It works better on red planaria than it does on AEFW. Others have dosed it with success - and you will hear others tell you that it didn't do anything for them. QT will be the best way to completely rid the tank of them. Keep us posted!

My LFS guy said it wouldnt hurt to go ahead with the Salifert med in the main tank until I was able to move everything over. Blasted the biggest one I have seen yet off my Echinata, boy, talk about a sickening feeling. I did mangage to capture the big one with my Turkey Baster. I am going to start moving some of the more common SPS tonight. I added a Coris Wrasse, but I have yet to see the little guy since putting him in the tank. I may pick up a 6 line as well.

soccerbag · May 13, 2010

Yeah, the Coris wrasses bury immediately but most of the time, they come out and are great fish to have in the tank. My six line does not bury. It's good that he will be the last wrasse to be added(for now). My cut down on his aggressiveness. However, if you are going to quarantine your SPS, it may not be necessary (unless you really like them).