Please help Palytoxin Poisoning, Me, Wife and Dog.

[HolySmoke]

Yesterday I moved my tank 10 ft across the room and towards the end of the night my wife helped me put the last couple corals from the bottom of the brute into the tank.

Mind you first time in 10 years of being together her hands have touched saltwater.(I think) Fast forward 8 hours later and I'm waking both of us up with a nasty cough,stuffy nose, and post nasal drip. I woke up with the chills and felt sick. Couple hours later my dog throws up and I noticed he is taking short shallow breaths.

I hadn't connected the dots until I texted my wife that the dog threw up and she said her chest hurt. After hearing that 5he light bulb went off and I turned off the skimmer, opened all the windows and removed a couple Buckets with a couple inches of water in the bottom from the move.

Question is how long should I expect this to last? should we leave the house? my wife is the paranoid type so I told her what it could be but told her unlikely. From the symptoms we are having I am 100% confident it is palytoxin poisoning. My wife and I have both have Covid twice and the second time was only 45 days ago so that's out as a possibility.

Is it a safe assumption that the exposure has already happened and we have to just ride it out? I'm assuming this is the case but would love to hear from people with first hand experience. I want to note that my breathing is better and the dog is looking a little better but still breathing fast slight weezing. My wife is in bed with the dog and she is burning up(fever) and whining like a toddler. My oxygen tested at 100 wife 98.

Please help!!!!!

Thank you.

 

[arking_mark]

I think grandi’s are the likely suspect, I’ve heard they are the most poisonous/ likely to release palytoxin... though I could be wrong

Please see this article. The Dangers (and Myths) of Zoa Toxicity - Part 1 (reefs.com)

I have had Grandy Palys forever and have never had an issue... Please do a little research before potentially scaring people who own these.

 

[kenchilada]

171 cases reported over 14yrs isn't likely to cause any type of ban. But there has been a rise of incidents in recent years.

And of these very few had any serious repercussions. It is something to be aware of but a low risk.

I am MUCH MUCH more concerned with risk of electric shock. The fact we will stick our hands in water full of 110v equipment but panic over zoa toxins is revealing to say the least.

Regardless, any time you feel you are in danger calling poison control and/or going to ER is the right thing to do.

 

[Mellotang]

So, you've been poisoned 5 timed and kept doing the same thing? Plus, we see very few people reporting paly poisoning, but others chime in with their experiences to help others know they are not alone.

when you have to install And maintain reefs every day you end up performing services constantly and get exposed

never said I kept doing the same thing

you can get exposed cleaning a filter

cleaning rocks

cleaning gravel

aquascaping

usually need some Cuts on your hands

can breathe it in if you get your corals outta water and too close to lights

as everyone has said there is a lot of unknowns about the toxin

i Just don’t think every cold someone with an aquarium in their house gets is paly toxin poison

 

[reefs4life]

this is not a helpful post. If I was a mod I’d remove it and give you a warning.

A difference in opinion doesn't need to be censored or muted just because it doesn't meet your thinking. That seems to be something people in the country are seeming to forget...

To add to his comment though, I've been in reefing for over 15 years and it has happened to me about 3 times. The most recent was about 2 months ago, reaction occurred about 2 hours after scrubbing a rock of blue/grey palys outside of water with no PPE at all. Chills, fever, weakness but I woke up the following day and everything was gone. Realistically, aside from symptom management, I'm not sure what a hospital would do for you, there's no palytoxin antivenom to my knowledge and not one that would be on hand at your local ER, but I may be wrong.

 

[Jeffcb]

A lot of fish poop in there also. Just saying. poop

 

[Bepis]

Please see this article. The Dangers (and Myths) of Zoa Toxicity - Part 1 (reefs.com)

I have had Grandy Palys forever and have never had an issue... Please do a little research before potentially scaring people who own these.

Trust me I wasn’t trying to scare anyone, just was asking, hence the, I COULD BE WRONG. Lol

 

[fishguy242]

the irony of your screen name @HolySmoke ,this is getting out of control..best wishes ,you are in good hands now!!
i'll add 1 before i'm out TREAT ALL CORAL AS DEADLY..period..

 

[LadyTang2]

Yesterday I moved my tank 10 ft across the room and towards the end of the night my wife helped me put the last couple corals from the bottom of the brute into the tank.

Mind you first time in 10 years of being together her hands have touched saltwater.(I think) Fast forward 8 hours later and I'm waking both of us up with a nasty cough,stuffy nose, and post nasal drip. I woke up with the chills and felt sick. Couple hours later my dog throws up and I noticed he is taking short shallow breaths.

I hadn't connected the dots until I texted my wife that the dog threw up and she said her chest hurt. After hearing that 5he light bulb went off and I turned off the skimmer, opened all the windows and removed a couple Buckets with a couple inches of water in the bottom from the move.

Question is how long should I expect this to last? should we leave the house? my wife is the paranoid type so I told her what it could be but told her unlikely. From the symptoms we are having I am 100% confident it is palytoxin poisoning. My wife and I have both have Covid twice and the second time was only 45 days ago so that's out as a possibility.

Is it a safe assumption that the exposure has already happened and we have to just ride it out? I'm assuming this is the case but would love to hear from people with first hand experience. I want to note that my breathing is better and the dog is looking a little better but still breathing fast slight weezing. My wife is in bed with the dog and she is burning up(fever) and whining like a toddler. My oxygen tested at 100 wife 98.

Please help!!!!!

Thank you.

Call the doctor, and be more careful in life.

 

[vetteguy53081]

when you have to install And maintain reefs every day you end up performing services constantly and get exposed

never said I kept doing the same thing

you can get exposed cleaning a filter

cleaning rocks

cleaning gravel

aquascaping

usually need some Cuts on your hands

can breathe it in if you get your corals outta water and too close to lights

as everyone has said there is a lot of unknowns about the toxin

i Just don’t think every cold someone with an aquarium in their house gets is paly toxin poison

Its all good. This is what happens in a forum and everyone entitled to opinions. Working for quite a while in critical care, I can say, to my knowledge there is no actual antidote for palytoxin. More testing and reacting to results.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Here is from Julian Sprung:

 

[Mellotang]

You really are an idiot. How do you know your exposure levels, toxin levels? Airborne? Skin Contact? Ever think maybe the same paly poisoned you 5x and your pea brain was just lucky it wasn't a stronger palytoxin.

Poison control was very familiar with Palytoxin cases and told me specifically onset can vary widely depending on the person. I was in contact with paly at 330 pm I woke up at 2Am from an uncontrollable cough.

@Mellotang You are number 1 in my book. I can't believe I stooped to this level but you have some nerve saying the things you did. People battle this for weeks on ventilators and have died.

Dude I don’t know what I did to you but whatever you want to feel is fine with me

personally I think if you had any sort of toxin exposure you wouldn’t even feel like corresponding on a forum from the ER

 

[Sarcazian]

when you have to install And maintain reefs every day you end up performing services constantly and get exposed

never said I kept doing the same thing

you can get exposed cleaning a filter

cleaning rocks

cleaning gravel

aquascaping

usually need some Cuts on your hands

can breathe it in if you get your corals outta water and too close to lights

as everyone has said there is a lot of unknowns about the toxin

i Just don’t think every cold someone gets is paly toxin poison

Fair points and I did jump to paly toxin there.

As others have said, it's more about situational risk and awareness. When I started this hobby I was only doing fish tanks. Then I took a break and started back in like 2008/2009. I started my first reef tank (used tank) and I likely got low level poisoned due to the sheer number of stuff in the tank - nothing major.

Even back then dino's and paly's were mentioned as having some kind of "toxin", but no one cared and I was pretty much the only one in the tank.

Now I have kids and a household and I am not the only one around the tank. Is the risk minor? Probably, I have baked rocks in the garage without thinking that likely had zoas/polys on them and lost a whole tank during a hurricane where everything sat in a cooler for weeks due to lack of power - all dead after. I opened it up and throw it away and cleaned it out with no gloves or anything. Was I lucky? I guess, but if it happened in 2021 I would wear a mask and gloves just to make sure knowing others had bad experiences.

The point is providing people informed data of what could happen in the worst case scenario to stop something silly.

If you watch that video posted earlier with Julian talking he mentioned, if I remember it correctly, that one of his exposures could have happened from washing the bucket in hot water. This may have released the toxins into the air and we all know we breath close to where we wash our buckets.

So, sharing experiences like that, if you believe it or not, could save someone from getting a low level poison reaction. I know that I always make sure I rinse out buckets with cold water now - and try to not breathe directly as I am filling them up in the tub. Is it overkill? Probably, but it is also a simple precaution since I don't want to wear a mask.

I see it as no different than knowing how to combat any other challenge in this hobby.

Top-off or dosing pump just go haywire (broken) and increased my pH to 9?
-Ok, easy fix, drop in a tsp/tbsp of vinegar and monitor it to bring it down to 8.3.

Have zoas/poly's?
- Wear gloves always, frag underwater (I guess.. I never did this.. but good thought), transport underwater, etc.
- realize that you may have been fine the last 100 times, but this time something really ticked off the tank and you may not be.


Dealing with Dino's?
- Wear some gloves and maybe a mask as well - potentially don't use steaming hot water to clean the bucket if you are concerned with that.


Some stuff is super easy to implement if you just know there is a potential.

 

[VolatileReeFer]

How to know what coral or if the toxin is present in our system ?

not all have toxin and as said above it’s rare
Is there a way to irradiate once proven it’s been introduced ? Is there a way to test or know for sure the particular paly / zoa has toxin or do they all have it , takes stress to release them ?

Pretty sure it's a stress/defense response. To remove it from a tank, prob water changes and carbon?. If carbon can remove the nasties out of a tank that was nuked by an anemone..i'd think it could remove palytoxins just as easy.

 

[reefs4life]

From my experience, I can always attribute unfavorable after effects to the palys that are pictured at the end of this article.

Suspected Palytoxin Inhalation Exposures Associated with Zoanthid Corals in Aquarium Shops and Homes — Alaska, 2012–2014

www.cdc.gov

(not my picture)

 

[Rmckoy]

Pretty sure it's a stress/defense response. To remove it from a tank, prob water changes and carbon?. If carbon can remove the nasties out of a tank that was nuked by an anemone..i'd think it could remove palytoxins just as easy.

Is there a way to test , swab palys to see if it produces toxin ?
So they all produce the same toxin ?

 

[sarcophytonIndy]

A difference in opinion doesn't need to be censored or muted just because it doesn't meet your thinking. That seems to be something people in the country are seeming to forget...

To add to his comment though, I've been in reefing for over 15 years and it has happened to me about 3 times. The most recent was about 2 months ago, reaction occurred about 2 hours after scrubbing a rock of blue/grey palys outside of water with no PPE at all. Chills, fever, weakness but I woke up the following day and everything was gone. Realistically, aside from symptom management, I'm not sure what a hospital would do for you, there's no palytoxin antivenom to my knowledge and not one that would be on hand at your local ER, but I may be wrong.

No sure why people are scrubbing rocks. Tangs do a wonderful job

 

[VolatileReeFer]

Is there a way to test , swab palys to see if it produces toxin ?
So they all produce the same toxin ?

I'm sure something exists, most likely not anything hobby grade. What's the old saying? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure?