Plumbing a remote refugium - flooding concern

[Zero_Cool]

I would like to plumb a 20 gallon tank i to my system as a remote refugium (would be in the fish closet behind a wall). The tank is drilled through the bottom for a return and drain so it would be easy to fill off a manifold and drain back to the sump.

Issue would be that the refugium tank would be lower than the water line in the DT. Concern is when the power or main pump goes off leading to a flood. Return pump has a check valve but there is nothing stopping water from siphoning from the DT into the remote refugium and running down that tank's drain to potentially overflow the sump.

I thought about moving the DT check valve to after the manifold so it would potentially stop/limit flow to the refugium. Would that work?

Any other ideas?

Thank you.

 

[blaxsun]

What about a stand-alone refugium that you can plumb off your existing manifold?

 

[Nate Chalk]

Tank >>> fuge>>> sump?

Wouldn't the overflow all just go to the sump?

Sump needs to be able to hold the overflow capacity. Should be able to calc that?

 

[Nate Chalk]

O your sump can't handle 20gallons overflow. Hmmm why no side overflow hole? :S

 

[Zero_Cool]

What about a stand-alone refugium that you can plumb off your existing manifold?

That's what I want to do but not sure how to prevent siphoning water over flow through the refugium into the sump and overflow the sump.

 

[Zero_Cool]

O your sump can't handle 20gallons overflow. Hmmm why no side overflow hole? :S

Sorry, should have put this into the question:

DT is 230 gal
Fuge would be 20 gal
Sump is about 50 gal (36×24×16)

Sump will typically be half full so leaves about 20 gallons before flooding.

 

[PotatoPig]

Sorry, should have put this into the question:

DT is 230 gal
Fuge would be 20 gal
Sump is about 50 gal (36×24×16)

Sump will typically be half full so leaves about 20 gallons before flooding.

Any way you could have the refugium at a higher elevation than the sump and then have the water pumped into it from the sump and then gravity drain back down to the sump return pump chamber?

Either that or have it higher than the sump and provide an overflow drain from the fuge to the sump?

 

[Zero_Cool]

Any way you could have the refugium at a higher elevation than the sump and then have the water pumped into it from the sump and then gravity drain back down to the sump return pump chamber?

Either that or have it higher than the sump and provide an overflow drain from the fuge to the sump?

The fuge would be higher than the sump but lower than the returns on the DT. When/if the DT siphons down to the siphon-breaks the siphoned water from the DT would hit the check valve and then back up the return line into the fuge. This in turn would then continue to drain the DT water plus the fuge water into the sump. Effectively negating the check valve on the return pump.

I could run a separate pump for the fuge that would solve the issue.

 

[All_talk]

By your description I'm assuming the check valve is located between the pump outlet and the manifold that would feed the fuge, correct? As you say, moving the CV or a separate pump should work.

I don't trust check valves so I don't use them, I prefer siphon breaks, or returns that are shallow in the tank. Assuming your DT is fairly typical dimensions, each inch of water could be close to 10 gallons, your siphon break would need to be very close to the surface to avoid a flood.

 

[Zero_Cool]

By your description I'm assuming the check valve is located between the pump outlet and the manifold that would feed the fuge, correct? As you say, moving the CV or a separate pump should work.

I don't trust check valves so I don't use them, I prefer siphon breaks, or returns that are shallow in the tank. Assuming your DT is fairly typical dimensions, each inch of water could be close to 10 gallons, your siphon break would need to be very close to the surface to avoid a flood.

Thank you. Yes, that is my concern. 72x30x25 is roughly 10 gallons per inch and I have probably 20 gallons of room in the sump.

Plan is shallow returns with siphon breaks plus the check valve as a backup. Even then if the CV fails it is still 10 gallons plus before the siphon break kicks in plus whatever the remote refugium siphons.

Talking this through makes me less comfortable with a remote refugium unless I increase the sump size. The juice just doesn't seem worth the worry.

 

[All_talk]

I hear you, and talking "is the juice worth the squeeze", I'm not sure a 20 gal fuge on 230 gal DT is going to make much of a difference, assuming you are looking for some nutrient control. If you are looking for a true refugium for pods or other life then maybe.

For what its worth, I'm looking into a new system about the size of yours, and IF I do a refugium/algae filter it will be remote. Never again will I do a light in my sump, just not worth the mess. And if I do a remote fuge it will likely be above the DT level so pods wash in without going through a pump.

 

[malacoda]

If you're dead set on having the refugium, then increasing the sump size is probably your best.

The other thing would be to ensure your fuge overflow/drain line can handle the same volume per minute of drainage or more as your DT overflow/drain line. Otherwise, the DT will drain into the fuge faster than the fuge can send that drainage down to the sump ... which could result in your fuge briefly overflowing. (Unless I'm misunderstanding your plumbing & check valve arrangement.)

 

[Zero_Cool]

I hear you, and talking "is the juice worth the squeeze", I'm not sure a 20 gal fuge on 230 gal DT is going to make much of a difference, assuming you are looking for some nutrient control. If you are looking for a true refugium for pods or other life then maybe.

For what its worth, I'm looking into a new system about the size of yours, and IF I do a refugium/algae filter it will be remote. Never again will I do a light in my sump, just not worth the mess. And if I do a remote fuge it will likely be above the DT level so pods wash in without going through a pump.

Very good point about the size being too small. Idea only came to me as I already had the tank sitting around and thought it would make a good cryptic area (added bonus of additional live rock) as well as a place to do auto water changes/dosing into.

The sump does have a passive refugium built in that I can use for this purpose as well but why do things easy when you can complicate them.

 

[Zero_Cool]

If you're dead set on having the refugium, then increasing the sump size is probably your best.

The other thing would be to ensure your fuge overflow/drain line can handle the same volume per minute of drainage or more as your DT overflow/drain line. Otherwise, the DT will drain into the fuge faster than the fuge can send that drainage down to the sump ... which could result in your fuge briefly overflowing. (Unless I'm misunderstanding your plumbing & check valve arrangement.)

That is a very valid point. I had not considered the drain rate difference between the tanks.

I was doomed from the start.

Thanks everyone for your help and advice.

 

[Smokeshow]

I have 4 tanks in my system. 75gal display that drains into a 20gal that has my filter socks and protien skimmer. That drains to a 55gal sump. The center chamber has my return pump. The return is split into 2 3/4" returns in the 75 and 1 in the 40 breeder. The 40 drains into the refugium section of the 55.