Plumbing and distance inquiry

[OvaskaReefer]

Hey y’all!

I’m setting up a remote sump in my back room for a tank in my living room. I have a subfloor house that about ~30” off the ground and my stand is ~33” tall. My back porch is on the slab (ground level) and about 10-15’ from where the tank is, depending on how I run the pipes.

What I’m wondering is how to calculate if the drop and run will be able to flow water down and then up and over the lip of a sump. I want to put the sump on a small platform and am worried that the water won’t have enough oomph to make it.

The top of the sump will be above the highest point I can punch through my external foundation with the pipe.

I appreciate the help! First time trying something like this and the fall doesn’t seem like it will be enough.

Thanks yall!

I very well could be over thinking it. But, I figured I’d ask.

Picture of the tank in question. Used Joes Glass Cages.

FlowStateReefer

 

[Gumbies R Us]

@BeanAnimal

 

[BeanAnimal]

The head height is the distance between the two pools. In the case of a free flow, where the water enters the upper pipe and where the water exits the sump discharge pipe (assuming a full pipe). If the sump pipe is submerged, then the height of the sump level. If the pipe is oversized (air and water) at the "turn" above the sump lip, then it is that input height - that height.

Hope that makes sense. Let me know what the head distance is. But in general, it is going to be a pain to overflow air in a horizontal system that long without a decent head.

 

[OvaskaReefer]

Thanks for the response!

So based on some quick measurements looks like the head high would be ~ 30”

The water would fall 72”, have ~175” horizontal to travel to make it down and through the crawlspace hole and back up about 15” over the sump lip.

My poor sketch as a visual.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[mcarroll]

What I’m wondering is how to calculate if the drop and run will be able to flow water down and then up and over the lip of a sump. I want to put the sump on a small platform and am worried that the water won’t have enough oomph to make it.

Gravity will take care of it – never fails!

You just need a big enough pipe (diameter) to carry the flow you are planning.

P TRAP
If you end up what the heck that "hump" in the drain line as in your illustration, you're basically creating a gigantic P trap.

https://www.oatey.com/faqs-blog-videos-case-studies/blog/what-p-trap-and-how-does-it-work

Water will not drain out of the bottom pipe when your system is off. That pipe will stay full about up to the hump.

If you do that then I would install a vertical vent pipe at its apex. No water should ever flow up the vent pipe, but you'll want it to be as tall as possible just in case of some unforeseen downstream blockage. This should provide a way for air trapped behind the hump to escape when restarting the drain. An alternative is using an air admittance valve. There are many, but this is an example:
https://www.oatey.com/products/p_03...ck-dfu-air-admittance-valves?upc=038753390178

But again, I would avoid placing a hump in the drain line if at all possible. Drain line should all be downhill, at least 1" drop for every "X" number of feet of drain. At minimum it should be horizontal, not uphill.

THE RETURN
You don't mention the tank size, but the pic looks like it might be about 100 gallons.

A 100 gallon system would need between 100 GPH and (100 x 5 = ) 500 GPH of flow to the sump – not really that much. 1" pipe should do it, but install 1.5" if you want a bigger margin of flow capability.

The return plumbing will take some additional calculation to make sure you actually get that target flow....and you're working against gravity in that case, so height is no longer doing the work for you, you're working against it.

Use this to help decide what pipe size to use....friction losses should be avoided when possible, but accounted for when unavoidable.

After running the calcs on my end, if you use 1" plumbing for the return there would be essentially no friction losses at 200 GPH, so just pick a pump that delivers 200GPH at 72" according to it's flow curve and you should be fine. For example a Mag 7 would do this job very well.