Plumbing help for Closed Loop with Ocean Motion 4way

AC0DX · Jan 26, 2020

I need some plumbing help. I am going to run a closed loop on my new to me 180, because the tank is drilled for it and I don’t want wave makers in the display. I am assuming that the hole in the back is the outlet to the closed loop pump and the 4 returns will come over the back of the tank. I just don’t know what the two extra holes at the bottom are for. Returns from the sump? Also is anyone else running a closed loop and or Ocean Motion 4way?

lapin · Jan 27, 2020

I ran a closed loop on 1 of my used tanks.
Im going to guess here;
You are prob correct in assuming the last owner used the extra holes in the bottom for returns.
The hole in the back is prob for a closed lop and the extra holes in the overflow box front are prob there for extra water flow as I dont think the overflow box could keep up with flow for the sump and the closed loop.

Katrina71 · Jan 27, 2020

@JoshH is doing closed loop on his new build too.

Scratch08 · Jan 27, 2020

AC0DX said:
I need some plumbing help. I am going to run a closed loop on my new to me 180, because the tank is drilled for it and I don’t want wave makers in the display. I am assuming that the hole in the back is the outlet to the closed loop pump and the 4 returns will come over the back of the tank. I just don’t know what the two extra holes at the bottom are for. Returns from the sump? Also is anyone else running a closed loop and or Ocean Motion 4way?

I was running a OM 4 way on my tank before I had to put it in storage due to travelling for my last job. I agree that the hole in the back goes to the inlet on your pump. However, I don't like the idea of pulling water from the overflow section, so out of curiosity, doeseither hole in the front of the overflow line up with the bulkhead in the back? If one does, I would try to plumb it so that it pulls from the tank instead, piece of pipe with a strainer maybe... as for the other holes in the bottom of your overflow, the are a couple of possibilities. 1, like you said, run your return(s) from sump through them and run the 4 returns for th OM over the top. Or 2, which is the way I would do it, would be to run the rturn from the sump over the top along with 2 of your returns from the OM, and use the 2 extra holes in the bottom of the overflow for the other 2 returns from the OM, possibly bringing them out closer to the bottom of the overflow to give you some flow in the back of the tank down low.

AC0DX · Jan 27, 2020

Scratch08 said:
I was running a OM 4 way on my tank before I had to put it in storage due to travelling for my last job. I agree that the hole in the back goes to the inlet on your pump. However, I don't like the idea of pulling water from the overflow section, so out of curiosity, doeseither hole in the front of the overflow line up with the bulkhead in the back? If one does, I would try to plumb it so that it pulls from the tank instead, piece of pipe with a strainer maybe... as for the other holes in the bottom of your overflow, the are a couple of possibilities. 1, like you said, run your return(s) from sump through them and run the 4 returns for th OM over the top. Or 2, which is the way I would do it, would be to run the rturn from the sump over the top along with 2 of your returns from the OM, and use the 2 extra holes in the bottom of the overflow for the other 2 returns from the OM, possibly bringing them out closer to the bottom of the overflow to give you some flow in the back of the tank down low.

Did you OM sit right on top of your pump or did you support it somehow?

Scratch08 · Jan 27, 2020

Scratch08 said:
Finally got Oceans Motions and Varios 6 fitted up and mostly glued up. Just have to finish gluing up where the pipes go through top of stand to back of tank. View attachment 768828 View attachment 768829 View attachment 768832 View attachment 768833 View attachment 768834

AC0DX said:
I need some plumbing help. I am going to run a closed loop on my new to me 180, because the tank is drilled for it and I don’t want wave makers in the display. I am assuming that the hole in the back is the outlet to the closed loop pump and the 4 returns will come over the back of the tank. I just don’t know what the two extra holes at the bottom are for. Returns from the sump? Also is anyone else running a closed loop and or Ocean Motion 4way?

Scratch08 · Jan 27, 2020

Ok, so that didnt quite work the way I wanted it to...lol. that is from my build thread. My returns from my OM go through the back of my tank, I drilled it and installed 4 bulk heads, 2 up high and 2 down low. Only thig I will change when I set it back up will be a larger pump.

AC0DX · Jan 27, 2020

That looks impressive. Here is my mock up of what I think the returns will be. The two closest to the weir are from the sump and the other four are closed loop. The white pvc will be replaced with schedule 80. Thoughts?

Scratch08 · Jan 27, 2020

AC0DX said:
That looks impressive. Here is my mock up of what I think the returns will be. The two closest to the weir are from the sump and the other four are closed loop. The white pvc will be replaced with schedule 80. Thoughts?

I think your definitely headed in the right direction with it, however, I would be concerned with dead spots in the flow, maybe split the top returns from your OM to get flow from front and back of tank, especially if you add more rock work. What are your plans for the tank? Reef, fish only etc? The other thought is that you will need to maybe raise the returns from the sump a small amount to help with breaking surface tension...to help with the oxygen exchange. I'd raise them just enough so that the water flow is even with the surface. I attached my build thread below...dont worry its not a huge thread, did this because I don't have the pictures I'm looking for on this phone, but in my build you can see how I did my OM returns inside the tank, not saying mine were "the way" to do it, especially since I fought with flow issues for a while, but I had very few dead spots if any...just wasnt ever really happy with amount of flow from pump. Hopefully this will hep some. I will be following along to see how it goes.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/scratchs-75-gallon-build-the-time-has-come.373432/

AC0DX · Jan 27, 2020

I really like that build out. I am going to use 3/4" locline for all the returns. That way I can adjust them up/down left/right to help eliminate any dead spots. I want the option of a mixed reef. The 90 gallon that is being folded into this is a softy and fish setup. I have a yellow tang and a blue tang waiting for this tank. The fish that are coming over are:

Yellow Tang
Mocha Clown
Sailfin Blenny
Blue Tang
Cherub Dwarf Angel
3 Yellow tail Damsels

Dream fish:
Blue Throat Trigger
Diamond Angel
Fox Face

AC0DX · Jan 27, 2020

Scratch08 said:
I think your definitely headed in the right direction with it, however, I would be concerned with dead spots in the flow, maybe split the top returns from your OM to get flow from front and back of tank, especially if you add more rock work. What are your plans for the tank? Reef, fish only etc? The other thought is that you will need to maybe raise the returns from the sump a small amount to help with breaking surface tension...to help with the oxygen exchange. I'd raise them just enough so that the water flow is even with the surface. I attached my build thread below...dont worry its not a huge thread, did this because I don't have the pictures I'm looking for on this phone, but in my build you can see how I did my OM returns inside the tank, not saying mine were "the way" to do it, especially since I fought with flow issues for a while, but I had very few dead spots if any...just wasnt ever really happy with amount of flow from pump. Hopefully this will hep some. I will be following along to see how it goes.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/scratchs-75-gallon-build-the-time-has-come.373432/

I see you ran a bean animal. Question - how low can the full siphon be relative to the open drain?

Scratch08 · Jan 27, 2020

AC0DX said:
I see you ran a bean animal. Question - how low can the full siphon be relative to the open drain?

I ran my full siphon just below my secondary drain, top of FS was about the center of my secondary and the top of my secondary was even with the open drain. I did mine this way to cut down on water noise in my overflow (I dont think I have a picture of how I had them set once I tuned it to reduce noise). Ultimately I could have dropped the FS and Secondary down lower, but my overflow has 2- 2" bulheads going from the weir to the box on the back and going lower would lower the water level in the weir and cause a waterfall effect. You will have to run yours higher as well due to the 2 holes cut in the front of your overflow, unless you can do as suggested earlier and run the intake for your CL pump all the way through your overflow into the tank and then possibly plug off the second hole. But, I guess to actually answer your question, you could run the siphon as low as you want, given you have the water volume in your sump to get to the open drain before running your sump dry...if that makes sense.

Edit: After thinking about it, my secondary was probably about an inch or so below the open drain give or take a little.

AC0DX · Jan 27, 2020

Scratch08 said:
I ran my full siphon just below my secondary drain, top of FS was about the center of my secondary and the top of my secondary was even with the open drain. I did mine this way to cut down on water noise in my overflow (I dont think I have a picture of how I had them set once I tuned it to reduce noise). Ultimately I could have dropped the FS and Secondary down lower, but my overflow has 2- 2" bulheads going from the weir to the box on the back and going lower would lower the water level in the weir and cause a waterfall effect. You will have to run yours higher as well due to the 2 holes cut in the front of your overflow, unless you can do as suggested earlier and run the intake for your CL pump all the way through your overflow into the tank and then possibly plug off the second hole. But, I guess to actually answer your question, you could run the siphon as low as you want, given you have the water volume in your sump to get to the open drain before running your sump dry...if that makes sense.

Edit: After thinking about it, my secondary was probably about an inch or so below the open drain give or take a little.

The plan is to run the closed loop outlet through the weir and to cap off the lower hole in the front of the weir. The issue is my main drain (full siphon) has to set under pipe running through the weir. So it will be fairly low.

Scratch08 · Jan 27, 2020

AC0DX said:
The plan is to run the closed loop outlet through the weir and to cap off the lower hole in the front of the weir. The issue is my main drain (full siphon) has to set under pipe running through the weir. So it will be fairly low.

You should be ok there. You'll be able to adjust the flow through your full siphon via a gate valve located near your sump (don't know why I didn't think of that before). You can use the valve to adjust the water level inside your overflow as well. I did this with mine to an extent, but I still adjusted my drain heights to accomplish the majority of it and then used the valve to fine tune it. I will be going to my storage unit this weekend to get some tools out so I can finish my honey do list, I'll try to get pictures of my overflow box so you can see how mine are set up (one of the few things I didnt disassemble when I stored the tank).

AC0DX · Jan 28, 2020

Okay so I think I have this plumbing figured out. This is the pump and 4 way mocked up.

Scratch08 · Jan 28, 2020

AC0DX said:
Okay so I think I have this plumbing figured out. This is the pump and 4 way mocked up.

That looks good. Looks like it was way easier to plumb up compared to what I had to do with mine...lol. One of the great advantages of a fish room. What pump are you using for it? I was using a Reef Octopus Varios 6 at approximately 1700 gph and never really got the flow I wanted out of it, but I know I had some other issues with mine that may have been part of the cause...plan to remedy those issues when I set it back up.

AC0DX · Jan 28, 2020

Scratch08 said:
That looks good. Looks like it was way easier to plumb up compared to what I had to do with mine...lol. One of the great advantages of a fish room. What pump are you using for it? I was using a Reef Octopus Varios 6 at approximately 1700 gph and never really got the flow I wanted out of it, but I know I had some other issues with mine that may have been part of the cause...plan to remedy those issues when I set it back up.

That is a Skimz Leopard 75 (1980 gph). I have a bigger pump if that one does not give me the flow I want