PMD?

[PaulieReef]

So I have an obsession with clams, but suddenly a few are not extending as far as they use to. I do not see any pyramid snails, but I have lost 2 clams in the past 3 weeks when previously I hadnt had any issues.

Basic Tank Information:
1.026
.08 phosphates
40 nitrates (yes I know this i high)
7.8-8.1 pH
9.0 alk
455 calc
1400 mag

No swings that I have, been battling nitrates for awhile and started dosing bacteria (microbactor/waste away) on and off the past month or so. Have not noticed any things picking besides a snail sliding across them here and there. Ill give a stock list just in case some are known to pick.

2x Mandarin
Clown Fish
Tailspot Blenny
Exquisite fairy wrasse
Longfind Fairy Wrasse
Melenarus Wrasse
Clown Goby
Yellow Coris Wrasse
Koi Tang
Vlamingi Tang
Purple Tang
Hippo Tang
Powder blue Tang
Sailfin Tang

1. Maxima 4-5 inches- Par: 300 - This clam has a ton of growth on the shell, been trying to kill the aiptasia that's on it and tube worms. However, I do not see any aiptasia where its retracted.

2. Maxima 4-5 inches - Par 300: Originally would extend fully, but never really opened up, now the back side seems retracted

3. Dersea 9 inches - Par 200 - Little pinch on the front left

4 Maxima/Crocea 3 inches - 200 Par - Perfectly Healthy, been like this since I had it always a shower.. hehe

5. Giga 3 inches - 200 par - Helathy

6. Crocea 2 inches - 300 par - Healthy loving life

 

[PaulieReef]

Another healthy one. Just showing healthy for comparison

 

[OrionN]

Please read or reread my article on this forum. Pay attention to my description to the symptoms. It looks, from the few pictures attached that your clams have PMD.
Treatment should be easy and effective. Good luck.

 

[minus9]

I only see new shell growth on a couple of your clams, the rest (mostly maximas) don't show any signs of new growth, which isn't good. Also, mixing wild caught maximas (clams) with cultured isn't a good idea unless you QT your clams, even then it's a risk. Healthy clams will have a full mantle and new shell growth, if they don't exhibit new shell growth, it's not healthy (growing). Do you have any top down daylight pics? The gigas looks like a derasa to me, but it's hard to tell with the blue pics. 300 micro moles for a maxima (wild caught) is barely enough to sustain them for very long, as these clams come from much higher intensity light and we usually fail to provide them with enough light to keep them for very long.

 

[PaulieReef]

Please read or reread my article on this forum. Pay attention to my description to the symptoms. It looks, from the few pictures attached that your clams have PMD.
Treatment should be easy and effective. Good luck.

read to article multiple times and still had questions. I tried a FWD on two clams that had symptoms of PMD one died and the other has been struggling since.

After the dip they were both moved to my frag tank, since one died and the other is having trouble recovering after a month I moved it back.

I’m scared to try it on the other clams as the first two didn’t survive.

 

[PaulieReef]

I only see new shell growth on a couple of your clams, the rest (mostly maximas) don't show any signs of new growth, which isn't good. Also, mixing wild caught maximas (clams) with cultured isn't a good idea unless you QT your clams, even then it's a risk. Healthy clams will have a full mantle and new shell growth, if they don't exhibit new shell growth, it's not healthy (growing). Do you have any top down daylight pics? The gigas looks like a derasa to me, but it's hard to tell with the blue pics. 300 micro moles for a maxima (wild caught) is barely enough to sustain them for very long, as these clams come from much higher intensity light and we usually fail to provide them with enough light to keep them for very long.

All my clams but one (the giant Derasa) came from the same place and are aquacultured.

Also the clams are currently getting 300 par because the lights are in acclimation mode, they will get 350-400 once the lights are full bright.

 

[minus9]

All my clams but one (the giant Derasa) came from the same place and are aquacultured.

Also the clams are currently getting 300 par because the lights are in acclimation mode, they will get 350-400 once the lights are full bright.

How long have you had the clams? Also, any maxima 4” or more isn’t cultured, they’re usually wild caught. You can easily tell by the shell if it’s cultured or not. You can increase the light intensity over a few days or more without issue, I wouldn’t take weeks to increase the lighting.
Is the frag tank on the same system? If so, that’s not going to work. They need to be moved to a different system.

 

[PaulieReef]

How long have you had the clams? Also, any maxima 4” or more isn’t cultured, they’re usually wild caught. You can easily tell by the shell if it’s cultured or not. You can increase the light intensity over a few days or more without issue, I wouldn’t take weeks to increase the lighting.
Is the frag tank on the same system? If so, that’s not going to work. They need to be moved to a different system.

The two bigger maximas about 6 months. Yes the frag system was completely separate from the main tank.

The acclimation par is not for the clams, for the other LPS I added to the tank.

 

[PaulieReef]

Sorry if I missed this in @OrionN pinned post but if I am going to FWD my clams. Do I need to FWD all even if they arnt showing signs of PMD? Since it’s in the tank won’t it be a matter of time for them all to get it if I don’t clam fallow the tank?

I read you out your big clam on one side and the rest on the other but the big clam that is about 9 inches can only fit in one spot of the tank.

I know the maximas need to be dipped and scared I might kill them but they will die anyway if I don’t.

Sorry if I missed this in the post.

Currently I do not have a setup that can house the clams.

 

[MartinM]

Clams don’t need acclimated especially not to relatively low par like 300-400. Even cultured ones are grown in 1000-3000 par of sunlight.

Get the par upnacross the board and make sure no fish are harassing them. And yes how long have you had them all?

 

[PaulieReef]

Clams don’t need acclimated especially not to relatively low par like 300-400. Even cultured ones are grown in 1000-3000 par of sunlight.

Get the par upnacross the board and make sure no fish are harassing them. And yes how long have you had them all?

Once again, par wasn’t for acclimating the clams. It was for acclimating the LPS in the tank.

2 larger Maximas about six months, crocea 3 months, large 9” clam about 3 weeks, smaller maxima about 2 weeks

Additionally. Outside of you in these forums. I have read that 350 is sufficient for maximas. It might not be “optimum” but it is sufficient

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

On the pics. I can only see the white line of new growth on pics 5 and 6. The others don’t have that white line, or it doesn’t show clearly on the pic. I would be concerned about that.

 

[PaulieReef]

On the pics. I can only see the white line of new growth on pics 5 and 6. The others don’t have that white line, or it doesn’t show clearly on the pic. I would be concerned about that.

You are right, none of the maximas have that white line. I know clams like dirtier water, but could high nitrates be the cause of lack of growth? Or have they possibly had PMD this whole time and just now noticing the symptoms of the mantle actually being pinched?

I re-examined the clams to look for that white line and I see some on the giga and the croceas. Maximas seem to be struggling with growth.

Did an ICP a test and everything was in like minus a few trace which I dosed.

Going to do a FWD on the two maximas since they will die anyway if I don’t.

Going to get a large water change ready for Tuesday.

 

[PaulieReef]

1 hour 30 minute FWD post dip. Keep you guys updated.

I know you said put in new tank but I don’t have one setup right now. They are separated from other clams.

 

[minus9]

You are right, none of the maximas have that white line. I know clams like dirtier water, but could high nitrates be the cause of lack of growth? Or have they possibly had PMD this whole time and just now noticing the symptoms of the mantle actually being pinched?

I re-examined the clams to look for that white line and I see some on the giga and the croceas. Maximas seem to be struggling with growth.

Did an ICP a test and everything was in like minus a few trace which I dosed.

Going to do a FWD on the two maximas since they will die anyway if I don’t.

Going to get a large water change ready for Tuesday.

The lack of growth is because of lack of light, there's nothing else short of predators/pests that would stunt growth besides the lack of quality light. Clams do require nitrogen, but if you're feeding your fish daily, then they are getting plenty of nitrogen. They require light (quality daylight spectrum). When you read about par numbers, it's mostly a general statement and you really need to pay attention to the clam, they will tell you if you are supplying them with enough light. No new shell growth, not enough light, it's really that simple. I would buy James Fatherree's new book on clams, there's a lot of great info in there.
Those large maximas are not cultured, so you're going to struggle with them until they wither away. I just lost a nice big blue maxima that I tried to rescue from a friend's tank. Even under halides, it never really put on new shell growth and slowly starved to death.
If you want to keep clams, then the lighting has to revolve around them, if you're dimming the lights for other animals/corals, then it's not going to work out for the clams. Derasa are pretty adaptive to lighting intensity (same with gigas) and can adapt to lower lighting conditions (if they are healthy and growing), which is why you see those lower par numbers being spread around. All clams that we keep in the hobby come from very shallow water and if they are found in slightly deeper water, it's crystal clear and the par is still intense. Your issue is not parameter related, it's light or the lack of.

 

[PaulieReef]

The lack of growth is because of lack of light, there's nothing else short of predators/pests that would stunt growth besides the lack of quality light. Clams do require nitrogen, but if you're feeding your fish daily, then they are getting plenty of nitrogen. They require light (quality daylight spectrum). When you read about par numbers, it's mostly a general statement and you really need to pay attention to the clam, they will tell you if you are supplying them with enough light. No new shell growth, not enough light, it's really that simple. I would buy James Fatherree's new book on clams, there's a lot of great info in there.
Those large maximas are not cultured, so you're going to struggle with them until they wither away. I just lost a nice big blue maxima that I tried to rescue from a friend's tank. Even under halides, it never really put on new shell growth and slowly starved to death.
If you want to keep clams, then the lighting has to revolve around them, if you're dimming the lights for other animals/corals, then it's not going to work out for the clams. Derasa are pretty adaptive to lighting intensity (same with gigas) and can adapt to lower lighting conditions (if they are healthy and growing), which is why you see those lower par numbers being spread around. All clams that we keep in the hobby come from very shallow water and if they are found in slightly deeper water, it's crystal clear and the par is still intense. Your issue is not parameter related, it's light or the lack of.

All of my clams are from Pacific East Aquaculture, unless I misunderstand what aquaculture is.

Can you explain how you know they are not cultured so I can look for said things in the future when I pick clams?

Additionally, after watching the clams like a hawk today post FWD, I noticed my tail spot blenny is harassing the clams mantles. So it does seem I have someone nipping. Trying to handle that now.

Finally, what is the suggest par to keep Maximas? would 350-400 suffice? Everywhere I am reading people say 300 is enough, there is a lot of information out there, and not sure which is true.

 

[MartinM]

Once again, par wasn’t for acclimating the clams. It was for acclimating the LPS in the tank.

2 larger Maximas about six months, crocea 3 months, large 9” clam about 3 weeks, smaller maxima about 2 weeks

Additionally. Outside of you in these forums. I have read that 350 is sufficient for maximas. It might not be “optimum” but it is sufficient

Sacrificing the health of the clams because you out in an LPS is obviously a bad idea. And the clams are already barely getting enough light, probably not enough, and then you turned it down further.

Pacific east aquaculture is just the name of the company. The do not culture their own clams, they buy from the same suppliers that everyone else in the world buys from because there are not very many clam farms or collectors.

While certain individual maxima and crocea clams can survive and perhaps thrive for a while at 300 to 350 PAR, I would never keep them at less than 450 for a long-term success, and my larger ones are under 500 to 750 because mass increases at the cubic root as compared to surface area which increases at the square root, so it is highly probable that has clams get larger, they need more light.

 

[PaulieReef]

Sacrificing the health of the clams because you out in an LPS is obviously a bad idea. And the clams are already barely getting enough light, probably not enough, and then you turned it down further.

Pacific east aquaculture is just the name of the company. The do not culture their own clams, they buy from the same suppliers that everyone else in the world buys from because there are not very many clam farms or collectors.

While certain individual maxima and crocea clams can survive and perhaps thrive for a while at 300 to 350 PAR, I would never keep them at less than 450 for a long-term success, and my larger ones are under 500 to 750 because mass increases at the cubic root as compared to surface area which increases at the square root, so it is highly probable that has clams get larger, they need more light.

Not really sure the first statement is appropriate considering most websites state 300 par is significant for maximas, but I guess people have to make others look stupid to feel better about themselves.

I'll just figure out the rest on my own.

@minus9 and @Mr. Mojo Rising thank you for the help and beneficial information.

Taking notifications off this post.

 

[minus9]

Not really sure the first statement is appropriate considering most websites state 300 par is significant for maximas, but I guess people have to make others look stupid to feel better about themselves.

I'll just figure out the rest on my own.

@minus9 and @Mr. Mojo Rising thank you for the help and beneficial information.

Taking notifications off this post.

I know you removed notifications, but in case you come back to this thread and for others. The minimum par would be 300 micro moles, that's minimum and that's with clams that have been growing and show new shell growth, otherwise you'll have to determine if that's enough or not by the individual clam. This applies to all clams. Crocea require slightly more light, say 350+ minimum. Once you get the hang of observing healthy clams and what they look like, then it becomes easier. As far as telling wild clams, scutes are the number one indicator, besides shell shape. These clams will be embedded within rock in nature, so their shells will be slightly off and not uniform, plus their scutes will most likely be knocked off or lacking all but the very top margins of the shell. We're here to help and myself and others are always willing to help. Hopefully I didn't come off as snarky or rude, as that's not my goal. Good luck and keep us posted. I truly want people to be successful with clams and I'm always willing to share as much as I can to help. The book below is a great resource and something I recommend all clam keepers to have in their reefing arsenal. Cheers!

 

[PaulieReef]

I know you removed notifications, but in case you come back to this thread and for others. The minimum par would be 300 micro moles, that's minimum and that's with clams that have been growing and show new shell growth, otherwise you'll have to determine if that's enough or not by the individual clam. This applies to all clams. Crocea require slightly more light, say 350+ minimum. Once you get the hang of observing healthy clams and what they look like, then it becomes easier. As far as telling wild clams, scutes are the number one indicator, besides shell shape. These clams will be embedded within rock in nature, so their shells will be slightly off and not uniform, plus their scutes will most likely be knocked off or lacking all but the very top margins of the shell. We're here to help and myself and others are always willing to help. Hopefully I didn't come off as snarky or rude, as that's not my goal. Good luck and keep us posted. I truly want people to be successful with clams and I'm always willing to share as much as I can to help. The book below is a great resource and something I recommend all clam keepers to have in their reefing arsenal. Cheers!

I didn’t think you came off that way at all! You and Mojo gave very good information without any backhanded statements. Just pure facts and understanding. Also I ordered that book. Thanks a ton!

The one clam that I FWD is in full recovery and no longer pinching. Looks amazing. The other clam was doing great until my tailspot blenny harassed it all day and it looks rough now. Trying to catch the tailspot blenny and hopefully the clam will recover.

Thanks again, that comment was not for you. You were awesome. I just get frustrated in this hobby sometimes because there is no one truth and if you arnt following someone truth I feel a lot of people try to put you down for it.