Poll: Light settings.

[MnFish1]

So a recent Poll/question of the day talked about MH vs LED - Don't want to debate the plusses or minus of coral growth, etc - this poll is about 'light settings' and therefor how much energy is being used. Halides/T5's go off and on - and are running (from my understanding) at full power while they are on - While - its my impression that very few people have their LED's running anywhere near full power. Is this true? Take the poll - comment on energy usage in the comments.

 

[KrisReef]

Dimming metal halides isn't the same practical option as LED's. I used to run 12 hours but the algae growth in the young tank made me dial back to 8 hours/day. The coral gets plenty of light to grow in 8 hours (actually 9). I have blue T-5's that I could put on a separate timer to ramp up/down but I have not bothered. The other big factor is power consumption. I have been thinking I would like to try LEDs to save power and improve the look of the tank but I really like my 250 w MH lights.

 

[MnFish1]

Part of the reason for the poll is that often we hear people saying 'xxx watts of MH is the same as xxx watts of LED'. Thats true - but my impression (and my use) - is that most people do not use LED's at 100 percent for the full time. So - first it seems to me - there is an energy savings based on the LED itself compared to the MH - then there is the issue that LED's are only being used at 40 or 50 or 70 (whatever) power.

 

[KrisReef]

As far as the lights and Watts, the number we should probably be interested in for our tanks is something like the "useful light/Watt" that we can get out of a fixture. There are a few ways to measure useful light, and that topic also often turns into another debate about Lumens, PAR, PUR, and peak spectral outputs.

 

[jda]

When I tested out Radions over my tanks, about 60-70%. Twice as many to cover the same area as a 250w MH at very similar same wattage. If I was going to run LED again, it would be probably be Photons at 100% similar to how therman does it - they appear to be able to handle it and he has some of the best results that I have ever seen with LED only.

If I was doing the math today to replace each 250w Halide which handles a 27x27 or 30x30 area with ease, which can be about 260-265w with ballast loss, then a pair of Gen 5 xr30s to cover the same area at about 150w with power supply loss is about the same. To replace higher HQI bulb output at 320-330w, then you would need to crank those Radions up to 175-200 range to get the same PAR. Nobody needs to worry about a few watts here or there if you are within 25-50, or so - fools errand, if you ask me.

Where this does not work is if somebody now is running a single xr30 at 150w over a tank where they once had a 400w Metal Halide and also some fluorescent tubes. However, it is likely that the 400w halide was a poor choice and that the choice is the issue here not some kind of magically efficient different kind of light. I have massive amounts of acropora and clams and I have no need for 400w MH and T5/VHOs - if somebody needed all of this, then you have a massive area and probably need somewhere in the 3x to 4x xr30 Radion range like Dr. Joshi needed.

These are actual observations over actual tanks with apogee 510 PAR meter and a kill-a-watt type of ac meter. I know that a PAR meter is not great for everything, but it is the best that most of us have and still better than lumens, lux, etc.

In the end, to cover the same area with the same PAR (with my apogee 510), the same wattage is needed regardless of the kind of light. Tullio says this same thing with all of his research at ReefBrite in a few of his videos.

 

[MnFish1]

When I tested out Radions over my tanks, about 60-70%. Twice as many to cover the same area as a 250w MH at very similar same wattage. If I was going to run LED again, it would be probably be Photons at 100% similar to how therman does it - they appear to be able to handle it and he has some of the best results that I have ever seen with LED only.

If I was doing the math today to replace each 250w Halide which handles a 27x27 or 30x30 area with ease, which can be about 260-265w with ballast loss, then a pair of Gen 5 xr30s to cover the same area at about 150w with power supply loss is about the same. To replace higher HQI bulb output at 320-330w, then you would need to crank those Radions up to 175-200 range to get the same PAR. Nobody needs to worry about a few watts here or there if you are within 25-50, or so - fools errand, if you ask me.

Where this does not work is if somebody now is running a single xr30 at 150w over a tank where they once had a 400w Metal Halide and also some fluorescent tubes. However, it is likely that the 400w halide was a poor choice and that the choice is the issue here not some kind of magically efficient different kind of light. I have massive amounts of acropora and clams and I have no need for 400w MH and T5/VHOs - if somebody needed all of this, then you have a massive area and probably need somewhere in the 3x to 4x xr30 Radion range like Dr. Joshi needed.

These are actual observations over actual tanks with apogee 510 PAR meter and a kill-a-watt type of ac meter. I know that a PAR meter is not great for everything, but it is the best that most of us have and still better than lumens, lux, etc.

In the end, to cover the same area with the same PAR (with my apogee 510), the same wattage is needed regardless of the kind of light. Tullio says this same thing with all of his research at ReefBrite in a few of his videos.

Curious - which Radions?
According to BRS -
Coverage:
Maximum Spread: 32" x 32"
Recommended Spread: 24" x 24"
Watts (Max) 215.
Light 35% more.
So - I see a light with a power savings and as much/more light efficiency depending on what 'level' its used at. But I'd be interested in your comments

 

[jda]

Intensive testing with g4s, below. Some decent testing with the G5s with and without diffusers - I was only able to borrow them for about 5 days. I used some g2, some older Razors and some really old Orpheks before this - I borrowed an expensive spectrometer for these since Apogee were not making PAR meters yet. Also a short trial with a Photon v2. I have also taken some of these lights to be tested in an integrating sphere.

I thought that we were going to honest and realistic? There is nothing realistic about Radions covering 32x32 or even 24x24 with the same output and spread as a 250w MH. If you don't need that much light, then cool... then compare it to a 150w halide which is about 160-162 watts at the wall which is probably a tad less power than what most people run their Radions that need to cover 24x24 - these two are more of a 1:1 with output and coverage but the Radion will make more of a cone of light and the MH will spread it out more... either can be helpful depending on the situation. Please, let's be realistic- once you get more realistic about needs and actual performance, it is easier to see why some people have not switched, and have desire to since running costs are all about the same.

Some of the MH reflectors that I have say that they cover 48x48, but that is not realistic either, so I don't post that based on a sales pitch.

Please don't assume that because I do not use LEDs that I have not tried and tried them and made investments via trade or even cash. I have 3x Gen 4 xr30 Pros new in boxes and 2 more used for 3-4 weeks. I should probably get rid of them while they still have some value and somebody can use them. I was once offered enough free units to cover all of my tanks to my desire just to log on and blindly shill for the product whenever I could - I am no shill for anything, but there are some on this board who have done this. Free product for message board posts was more common a few years ago, but it still happens. I was asked to "join the team."

If you don't believe me that there are no actual efficiencies over a reef tank, then go and watch some of Tullio's videos. He does make LEDs, after all - and other types. The only efficiencies are on paper with small-slice measurements like Lux or Lumen, which are regurgitated mostly by those who know the uselessness only to confuse or convince those who are impressionable.

 

[MnFish1]

Intensive testing with g4s, below. Some decent testing with the G5s with and without diffusers - I was only able to borrow them for about 5 days. I used some g2, some older Razors and some really old Orpheks before this - I borrowed an expensive spectrometer for these since Apogee were not making PAR meters yet. Also a short trial with a Photon v2. I have also taken some of these lights to be tested in an integrating sphere.

I thought that we were going to honest and realistic? There is nothing realistic about Radions covering 32x32 or even 24x24 with the same output and spread as a 250w MH. If you don't need that much light, then cool... then compare it to a 150w halide which is about 160-162 watts at the wall which is probably a tad less power than what most people run their Radions that need to cover 24x24 - these two are more of a 1:1 with output and coverage but the Radion will make more of a cone of light and the MH will spread it out more... either can be helpful depending on the situation. Please, let's be realistic- once you get more realistic about needs and actual performance, it is easier to see why some people have not switched, and have desire to since running costs are all about the same.

Some of the MH reflectors that I have say that they cover 48x48, but that is not realistic either, so I don't post that based on a sales pitch.

Please don't assume that because I do not use LEDs that I have not tried and tried them and made investments via trade or even cash. I have 3x Gen 4 xr30 Pros new in boxes and 2 more used for 3-4 weeks. I should probably get rid of them while they still have some value and somebody can use them. I was once offered enough free units to cover all of my tanks to my desire just to log on and blindly shill for the product whenever I could - I am no shill for anything, but there are some on this board who have done this. Free product for message board posts was more common a few years ago, but it still happens. I was asked to "join the team."

If you don't believe me that there are no actual efficiencies over a reef tank, then go and watch some of Tullio's videos. He does make LEDs, after all - and other types. The only efficiencies are on paper with small-slice measurements like Lux or Lumen, which are regurgitated mostly by those who know the uselessness only to confuse or convince those who are impressionable.

Hi. If you're not using them - Like I said - I just sold 2 on Ebay for 850 (total) - G4 XR30. I guess - I think we're talking apples and oranges - and either way - the poll wasn't designed to become a discussion about which type of light was 'better' - it was more designed to ask - assuming you have a reef tank - you have growing coral - its pleasing to you - how much do you use your lights. I don't quite understand the (what I think is a 'myth') - the idea that 'LED are more powerful than other types - at the same PAR value'. But - I assume its why many people run their LEDS at far below 100% - whereas MH and others run at a constant level.

My opinion - there is such a thing as 'too much light' - whether its a MH, an LED or whatever. I.e. no better coral growth/color even when light is increased. I have no reason not to believe the 'spread' numbers from the manufacturer of the light?

 

[WVNed]

I run T-5 4 hours a day and MH 8 hours a day for a total of 12 hours. So 8 hours at 1000 watts and 4 hours at 416 watts.

I run a 265 watt LED 12 hours at 50% on my other tank.

But my MH lights keep my 900 watts of heaters off 14 - 16 hours a day. They only come on early in the morning.

In my head I think it all balances out.

 

[\m/reefsnmetal\m/]

I use my LED's for 12 hours, ramping up to 100% for five hours, and ramping back down until lights out. I also have T5's that turn on during the max lighting period. The reason I don't have my LED's on 100% all day is the unwanted algae growth.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

I use radions. The 100% time frame is at 8 hours.

 

[chaoticreefer]

Tank is 36x30x16"

Three Radions x15 G4s. 12pm-12am. Each side of ramp up/down has hour of 0% to 20% all blues then a hour of 20% all blues to 40% of 14k. Peak is a flat line of 40% at 14k for 8 hours.

 

[bobbyM]

I can’t pick all three??
Tank 36”x30”x18”

Lights 2 X Radion XR30 gen3 pro 80% on day lights 100% blues 10hrs max hour ramp up and down.

150w 14k HQI 5 hrs half end of day light half start of blue.

T5s 8 hours

 

[Scott's reef]

3 AI32 HD at 12 hrs, one hr ramp up and ramp down. 3 lumen bars 8 hrs a day for extra pop n shimmer. Aquaticlife t5 hybrid running 4 blue plus for 6 hrs a day

 

[Pistol Peet]

Led t5 hybrid for me .

 

[chaoticreefer]

I would love to go hybrid, but my tank sits under a window with the two overlapping by 6". The widow has shutters that swing open over the tank. Anything wider than the XR15s the shutters couldn't open. I need to design a mechanism so the back T5s could be swung up so I can get the shutter pass them and swing the T5s back down. My only option when it comes to hanging lights is the EcoTech's rail that is mounted side to side on the tank's glass rims.

 

[MnFish1]

I would love to go hybrid, but my tank sits under a window with the two overlapping by 6". The widow has shutters that swing open over the tank. Anything wider than the XR15s the shutters couldn't open. I need to design a mechanism so the back T5s could be swung up so I can get the shutter pass them and swing the T5s back down. My only option when it comes to hanging lights is the EcoTech's rail that is mounted side to side on the tank's glass rims.

Or - perhaps get a different light like a G5 xr30. there are multiple ways to mount a radion unfortunately - its hard to picture what you're saying - the key question - why do you want to go hybrid

 

[chaoticreefer]

XR30 would be too wide.

Why? Just curious, some say it's a better set up. Also, it would give me a better over all spread, since I can't raise the radions with Ecotech's rail.

 

[MnFish1]

XR30 would be too wide.

Why? Just curious, some say it's a better set up. Also, it would give me a better over all spread, since I can't raise the radions with Ecotech's rail.

I would use 2 g5 xr30s mounted from behind. no rail. at least I thin they would fit

 

[hart24601]

I think the reason so many don’t run leds 100% is for the color they want. For example I run my orphek with the blues/uv/violet at 100% but the whites around 60% so the fixture isn’t 100% really. It’s staring to change but for some reason reef lighting had way more whites than most (in the us at least) like visually.