Pondering dosing nitrates

[TexasReefer82]

@jda I agree that reef Crystal's isn't my only issue. You have posted twice now in this thread to "look elsewhere for my issues" but haven't had any suggestions. What are you thinking is the issue?

I don't think you've actually explained what issues you're observing. Your initial post was about dosing Nitrate - and that's possibly a fine idea - but I have no idea what we're trying to fix with the Nitrate. What problems are you observing that you're trying to resolve?

 

[sandswhitson]

Tank is a standard 120 (48x24x24) flow is from 2 tunze 6095's mounted on seasweeps along with 2 tunze stream 3's and the return pump plumbed through seaswirls. Lighting is from a 6 bulb Tek T5 fixture with supplement from 2 SB reef bars. Skimmer is a Deltec TC2560. Calcium reactor fed with peristaltic pump and carbon doser regulator. Tank PH runs a little low from 7.8 to 8.1 throughout the lighting cycle. Alk 8.5, calcium 430 MG 1280. I dont dose anything or run a refugium at the moment.

I am struggling to keep SPS alive, tissue loss on them with no pests found. Montiopora cap and entrusting Montipora stay alive but hardly grow. Had a Duncan that died all the way back to one head, the one head has been hanging on for months but doesn't look healthy. Also have hair algae but have very low phosphates via Hannah ULR tester and no detectable nitrates via red sea pro and salifert test. I will try and get pictures later when the lights come on.

 

[TexasReefer82]

Ah, so your coral is dying. First things I'd like to see are some photographs of the dying SPS - that can tell us a lot.

What is the phosphate reading from the Hanna ULR checker?

If you truly have zero nitrates and phosphates your alkalinity may be a little high. Alkalinity in the range of 7-7.5 would be more appropriate for nutrients that low.

Are you SUUURE you have no coral pests? How did you observe for them? Red bugs are next to impossible to see IMO. AEFW are invisible by design expect for their bite marks on the acropora. Have you dipped any of the corals just to see what comes off?

Do you have hair algae or bryopsis? If all you have is hair algae then get some herbivores to eat it - that how it works in nature. If you have Bryopsis nothing will eat it and you'll need to treat the tank with fluconazole. A bryopsis outbreak can definitely suck the phosphates down to zero and leave nothing for your corals. It does a number on nitrates too. If you have bryopsis, killing it will help your corals.

Maybe a stupid question but what is a "carbon doser regulator?

 

[sandswhitson]

Hannah ULR phosphate readings are .01-.02 if I keep the feeding regiment I have (two cubes frozen and two feedings of pellets per day).

I have experienced red bugs and AEFW in the past so I know what to look for. I lost all my SPS previously and just started trying them again after not having any for probably 6 plus months.

Algae is hair, I just upped my cleanup crew a few weeks ago so I am waiting on them to help. I have two tangs and they wont touch it as they wait for pellets and frozen.

Carbon doser regulator is the electronic CO2 bubble actuator for the calcium reactor, very precise device so that keeps my alk from swinging.

 

[TexasReefer82]

Describe the tissue loss you see on the SPS. Is it from the base on up? is it on the tips? is it starting in the crotch between two branches?

Can you confirm that you're using RODI source water?

 

[sandswhitson]

Yes using zero TDS RODI water.

I have turned my calcium reactor off for now and will let the ALK fall some.

The only parameter that I think is a little out of "normal" is my temp runs a little low and is down to 74 this morning as our house got really cold last night. It has been averaging 76 with a low of 74 and high of 78. I run two 300 watt heaters so I may need to find a way to insulate the sump.

I am currently loosing one from a RTN event from the base up. A few others have missing flesh in random places including the tips. Others look like the flesh is really thin, like you can see the skeleton underneath the flesh. I will post pictures when the lights come on.

 

[TexasReefer82]

Ever tried adding Phosphates? Phosphorus deficiency in coral is way worse than Nitrogen deficiency and could cause what you've observed. The margin of error on the Hanna ULR Phosphate checker is 0.015 so you're real value could be closer to zero.

I does phosphate occasionally and it makes a noticeable improvement - I've stopped STN of a bali green slimer in it's tracks by dosing phosphate.

 

[sandswhitson]

I have seachem nitrogen and phosphorus coming tomorrow and I will slowly start adding some.

 

[TexasReefer82]

Since you're dosing to correct a potential deficiency I'd shoot for getting nitrates up to about 5ppm and phosphates up to 0.05ppm, at least. I add the amount required all at once and I've never noticed any ill effects, so there's no need to ramp up slowly to 5 and 0.05 since they're really both still pretty low. And let us know how it works for you! The worst side effect you'll observe is increased algae growth, if necessary buy yourself another urchin to eat the hair algae.

 

[sandswhitson]

Ok thanks. I will give it a try as soon as it gets here. Need to figure out an efficient way to keep my tank warmer.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

If you have hair algae you have enough phosphate.

 

[bobby.w.hodges]

Ok thanks. I will give it a try as soon as it gets here. Need to figure out an efficient way to keep my tank warmer.

You could bump up your house thermostat a little.

 

[jda]

You need to get the temp stable at 77-80. 74 is pretty cold for long periods of time. This is the most glaring thing that I can see. Add another heater if you need to, or make sure that the ones that you have are getting hot - sometimes they turn the LED indicator on, but don't get very hot, or hot at all.

I have phosphates in the 1 to 3 ppb range with the Hannah Ultra Low. This is no issue for anything. Low phosphate, usually with carbon dosing, GFO, Lan Chloride, etc. can cause some bleaching and dull color, but does not lead to death - for this to happen, you need to test out at 0 ppb. What is probably happening is that you have plenty of phosphate and the algae is consuming it pretty quickly, which means that the corals can get some too.

 

[PatW]

I dose sodium nitrate. I buy an analytical reagent off of Amazon. I put ,5 cup of the crystals into 1 gallon of RODI. I have an SPS dominant 300 gallon tank with chaeto in the refugium. I dose 2 tbs of my stock nitrate solution per day to maintain 1 ppm nitrate. I use the Red Sea Pro test kit. I have tried Salifert but Red Sea Pro is a bit better for nitrates.

 

[sandswhitson]

First picture shows some recession/thin tissue on the base of a frag, second shows recession at the tip and third is RTN from the base that has taken about two days to go from no recession to it's current state

 

[sandswhitson]

Corals that I posted pictures of are noticeably worse off today. Really wish I could figure this out. We have never had good luck with SPS. Very frustrating.

 

[Atu]

Hi, problems with low nitrates do exist, but I don’t think this is the case.
I don’t know what is causing this and I’ll tag along, but I’ll tell you my experience with nitrates in case it’s of any use.

I was having some bad algae problems and I was trying to starve them to death. I was heavily dosing carbon (in the form of ethanol) and my nitrates read at 0. Nitrates were low even before I started dosing because the algae was consuming all of it. Slowly my corals lose color. I had a brown pocillopora that became ghost white. It looked as it had bleached. After discarding temp and light I started dosing nitrates in the form of potassium nitrate. This brought the color slowly back. Today my pocillopora has a beautiful color and it has spawned with babies all over the tank, it’s a plague and I’m thinking of removing all of it, haha.
I’ve been dosing for over 2 years, and with carbon dosing you can completely control where you want your nitrate and your phosphates.
I’ve changed from potassium nitrate to calcium nitrate because the potassium was accumulating, whereas calcium nitrate adds calcium and alkalinity (if the nitrate is consumed) at an equilibrated rate.
Downsides to this method is increased cyano, and also bacterial mats that grows inside my vectras diminishing their flow. If I turn them off and on some of it comes out. Corals that grab some seems to eat it. Both of this problems are due to the ethanol though, not the nitrates.

Currently I dose 5ml of calcium nitrate 1M and 10ml of 96% ethanol daily. I’ve a 500g reef and feed heavily. I’ve phosphates at 0,01 ppm and nitrates at 1 ppm.
I’ve toyed with nitrates values from 0,1ppm to 10ppm and around 1 is where I like it more.

Good luck!

 

[sandswhitson]

Got my test results back from ATI. Anyone see something that would cause all my SPS to RTN??? Salinity is a little low and no nutrients, along with elevated tin?

 

[Backreefing]

No nutrients will definitely cause RTN
High metals can cause RTN or death of all invertebrates ( be thankful it wasn’t copper )
Time for a water change , maybe activated carbon might help with the metal(use with caution) .
And get some nutrients in there .
I wonder how so much tin got in . fish food , equipment, polluted make up water ?

 

[sandswhitson]

Working on dosing nitrates. I did find some metal that was rusting in my so and have taken care of that. Also did a water change. Unfortunately I have lost 8 out of 11 new frags that I just got at the beginning of this month and 1 of the remaining ones doesn't look good. All acropora, the one montipora frag I got in the order looks fine. RODI results showed a small amount of copper and silicon but nothing else.