Possible Ich !

[kkl7676]

TL;DR : added 3 new fish to a newer tank without using a QT tank. One died and another one possible has Ich.

So, the first screwup is we added 3 fish to our tank without using a QT tank. For what it’s worth, we are kicking ourselves thoroughly and it won’t happen again.

About a month and a half ago, we setup a seahorse tank for my wife and daughter. 77gal tall. Have 2 seahorses and 2 clown in there with some coral. They’ve been in there alone for about 2 weeks now. No issues. Water parameters are great.

Saturday we were out and stopped at a different LFS. We hadn’t been here before but it appeared clean and the guys seemed to be knowledgeable. We decided on a royal gramma, scooter blenny and a mandarin. We checked the fish when they were bagging them and they all 3 looked healthy. The mandarin seemed a little lethargic but we figured it would be ok.

Got them home and acclimated them all. Dropped them in after and they seemed to be fine.

Got up Sunday morning to feed everyone. First thing I noticed was about 6 white spots on the royal. They were very white and about the size of a grain of salt. Immediately started to take all 3 out. Ran to petco and grabbed a 20gal QT tank. We had some difficulty getting the royal out. Had to move almost all our live rock to catch him. Took about an hour. Got them all 3 transferred. The mandarin wasn’t doing well by this time. Called the LFS and they wanted me to bring the mandarin in with some water. When I mentioned Ich, he said probably was brought on by the stress ( I’m assuming he meant the white spots popping up).

About 3 hrs after I noticed the spots, they were gone. Checked the royal when he was in the QT tank and nothing. Not even a single speck. One thing to mention. We have had water clarity issues ever since starting our tank. We didn’t wash the sand and it has been very dusty. Our water changes look like milk. There are always dust particles in the water and up on top. Overnight, the royal spent most of his time in a cave in the sand.

Anyways, the mandarin didn’t make it, we have the other 2 QT tank waiting to see what happens before we start a copper treatment. Just hoping for some experienced feedback on the white spots.
I know there is a possibility we now have or will have Ich in our DT. I just don’t want to start dosing the seahorses and the clowns without first knowing.

 

[JumboShrimp]

Read the threads about Ich for a more technical explanation of the parasite stages, but in brief, ‘when the white spots fall off’ many people are so relieved to start breathing again (either thinking that the fish is recovered/cured, or that maybe it was ‘sand’ or their imagination to begin with) that they fail to take action and properly treat. Fish-death can be the result (and extremely rapidly if it happens to be Marine Velvet.) I’d get moving on it. Keep us posted, and Best Wishes!

 

[Reefahholic]

TL;DR : added 3 new fish to a newer tank without using a QT tank. One died and another one possible has Ich.

So, the first screwup is we added 3 fish to our tank without using a QT tank. For what it’s worth, we are kicking ourselves thoroughly and it won’t happen again.

About a month and a half ago, we setup a seahorse tank for my wife and daughter. 77gal tall. Have 2 seahorses and 2 clown in there with some coral. They’ve been in there alone for about 2 weeks now. No issues. Water parameters are great.

Saturday we were out and stopped at a different LFS. We hadn’t been here before but it appeared clean and the guys seemed to be knowledgeable. We decided on a royal gramma, scooter blenny and a mandarin. We checked the fish when they were bagging them and they all 3 looked healthy. The mandarin seemed a little lethargic but we figured it would be ok.

Got them home and acclimated them all. Dropped them in after and they seemed to be fine.

Got up Sunday morning to feed everyone. First thing I noticed was about 6 white spots on the royal. They were very white and about the size of a grain of salt. Immediately started to take all 3 out. Ran to petco and grabbed a 20gal QT tank. We had some difficulty getting the royal out. Had to move almost all our live rock to catch him. Took about an hour. Got them all 3 transferred. The mandarin wasn’t doing well by this time. Called the LFS and they wanted me to bring the mandarin in with some water. When I mentioned Ich, he said probably was brought on by the stress ( I’m assuming he meant the white spots popping up).

About 3 hrs after I noticed the spots, they were gone. Checked the royal when he was in the QT tank and nothing. Not even a single speck. One thing to mention. We have had water clarity issues ever since starting our tank. We didn’t wash the sand and it has been very dusty. Our water changes look like milk. There are always dust particles in the water and up on top. Overnight, the royal spent most of his time in a cave in the sand.

Anyways, the mandarin didn’t make it, we have the other 2 QT tank waiting to see what happens before we start a copper treatment. Just hoping for some experienced feedback on the white spots.
I know there is a possibility we now have or will have Ich in our DT. I just don’t want to start dosing the seahorses and the clowns without first knowing.

The first 2 things I want to address: :p

1. "Appeared clean"
2. "Seemed to be fine"

These were your first two mistakes. The third was no QT.

Now, lets move forward. :D

The spots that you're describing indeed sound like ICH. Catch the fish and treat them (in a seperate tank) if you want to get rid of it. You can treat with Copper, CP, or do TTM. Or....you can merely manage it in that tank.

Now, regarding the sand issue. Buy 3 or 4 10 micron felt filter socks. It will make the water crystal clear within hours. Guaranteed!;)

 

[HotRocks]

If you saw white spots, keep in mind this is just the entrance wound where the parasite entered the fish. The parasites feed in the gills.

You also will need to treat all the fish in your tank or the fish will likely be re-infected when they are introduced back to the DT. The DT needs to be fallow for 76 days.

 

[kkl7676]

Ok. Will grab another QT and start setting it up today. I feel like 4 fish and the 2 seahorses would be a little cramped in a 20gal.

As far as my DT, what about starfish ? We have two sand sifters. I know the crabs, shrimp and corals will be ok in there but not sure about the starfish.

Since I’m using my DT water to set up the QT, I won’t need to add any bacteria right ?

As far as a QT, I’m just using a 20gal kit from petco. Was the best I could get on shirt notice the other day. Will remove the carbon filter when I start copper dosing but that should be good right ?

 

[kkl7676]

After doing ore research and reading here and other forums, I think I am more confused about Ich.

I was under the impression that the white spots on a fish with Ich were a form of cyst that would fall off and multiple into tromonts ( I might have the names mixed up ). Anyways, my question is : if my fish had some white specs on him that suddenly appeared and then were gone a few hours later with no skin irritation, how would that be the parasite burrowing in or out of his skin ? Horocks said that it was an entrance wound created by the parasite burrowing. That would heal up within hours ? But even then, it literally looked like large grains of salt sprinkled on his skin. Almost shiny white.

I’ve gone back and read and looked at more pictures here on reef2reef and most people say it’s more of a white spot that looks like an irritation. Just trying to figure this out before I start transferring the seahorses our for TTM.

 

[btmedic04]

The human eye cannot see ich in any form so the white specks that you see on your fish is your fish's immune response to the irritation caused by the parasite. It is more or less a mucus plug that forms to protect the site of irritation. The fact that you saw it go away in a few hours is a pretty good sign that your fish has a pretty strong immune system currently, however don't think that you can delay treatment because it will wear it down after time.

 

[HotRocks]

The human eye cannot see ich in any form so the white specks that you see on your fish is your fish's immune response to the irritation caused by the parasite. It is more or less a mucus plug that forms to protect the site of irritation. The fact that you saw it go away in a few hours is a pretty good sign that your fish has a pretty strong immune system currently, however don't think that you can delay treatment because it will wear it down after time.

This^^^ is 100% accurate. I agree entirely.

 

[kkl7676]

The human eye cannot see ich in any form so the white specks that you see on your fish is your fish's immune response to the irritation caused by the parasite. It is more or less a mucus plug that forms to protect the site of irritation. The fact that you saw it go away in a few hours is a pretty good sign that your fish has a pretty strong immune system currently, however don't think that you can delay treatment because it will wear it down after time.

Ok, that I get. But, according to the sticky here about Ich, the plugs are from the parasite attaching to the fish.

* Trophont: The “feeding stage” of the parasite that attaches itself to the fish, commonly associated with salt or sugar-like “sprinkles” on the body or fins. These sprinkles are not the actual parasite, as all stages of ich are invisible to the naked eye. Each white dot is actually caused by excess mucous which forms around the area where a trophont latches onto the fish. This is the fish’s immune response to the parasite.

So, back to my earlier question. If my tank didn’t have Ich, I introduce a fish with Ich and leave him in my DT for 12hrs before he is removed, how is he getting the immune response to the parasite entering his body ? Maybe leaving his body ? If that’s the case, the sticky should be updated as it can be confusing.

I just don’t want to put the seahorses through unnecessary stress of there isn’t Ich in the DT. Not trying to shove my head in the dirt here and ignore the issue. Just trying to make sure I have all the info I can before I make such a big decision. Running 2 QTs in a smaller apt with a 75gal tank isn’t exactly going to be easy.