Possible solution to end RTN forever?!?

[ca1ore]

That is pretty cool, but I’m unsure of the point other than there’s a whole lot of stuff in our tanks that we don’t realize is there. Maybe these are just part of the cleanup crew. Like the novice that is horrified that a bristle worm killed their fish. No, fish died and bristle is scavenging.

 

[Reefahholic]

I read and watched the videos, and started to believe it. Then I found the link to the magic juice need to kill these “parasites”. And of course it’s out of this world expensive. Reminds me of back in the way early years when they went around selling the magic elixirs

Of course anybody wants to make money. I would too.

 

[Reefahholic]

It’s good to discuss this fully and consider all view points. I’ll be testing along with many others. I have the products coming and I’m ready to NUKE anything breathing. Bah hahah.

 

[WWIII]

Problem is everyone says rtn for any acro that dies fast. If I pull a healthy coral out and set it on the table overnight it will "rtn" pretty quick. Very interesting to see all these threads popping up about this research and these products! Hey, if it saves some corals I'm all for it!

 

[Reefahholic]

Problem is everyone says rtn for any acro that dies fast. If I pull a healthy coral out and set it on the table overnight it will "rtn" pretty quick. Very interesting to see all these threads popping up about this research and these products! Hey, if it saves some corals I'm all for it!

If that happens...the parasites are already present within or on the coral! No really...that’s been suggested and the Doc said he’s seen them easily going in and out of the coral. It’s mentioned in one of his videos I believe. Who knows. We need to test test test.

 

[Triggreef]

Lots of closed minded-ness. My ears are open. Wallet, not so much.

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

The presence of a particular bug on an RTNed colony is correlatory but is not evidence of causation.

Exactly. They could be consuming the dying/dead coral tissue. They could be consuming bacteria on the dying/dead tissue. They could be consuming something that’s consuming bacteria on the dying/dead tissue. Who knows?

That’s not to dismiss their presence. It’s another piece of the puzzle.

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

Lots of closed minded-ness. My ears are open. Wallet, not so much.

Skepticism is the opposite of close-mindedness.

In ecology, things are rarely as straight-forward as they initially appear. Like others, I need to see more than a video.

 

[menglish]

very interesting

 

[GlassMunky]

Problem is everyone says rtn for any acro that dies fast. If I pull a healthy coral out and set it on the table overnight it will "rtn" pretty quick. Very interesting to see all these threads popping up about this research and these products! Hey, if it saves some corals I'm all for it!

Actually, no it won’t RTN. It will be dead when you come back but it will still have all of its tissue and still be colored. Trust me, I’ve done it enough times forgetting how many frags I’ve cut.

 

[phixman]

Following

 

[rockskimmerflow]

So if you haven't heard...Prime Coral has some impressive videos showing a parasite that's responsible for RTN and others that might be responsible for STN. This guy is from Florida and his name is Dr. Ara Deukmedjian. This Philaster parasite that he's captured on video eating acros sure fits the description of being the RTN culprit for all these years. This thing is very aerodynamic, extremely fast, and the numbers found on the Acropora frags and colonies are staggering. I've owned several microscopes and have never seen anything like it. Maybe I was looking in the wrong places! In his multiple videos, they've literally been caught with their hands in the cookie jar- if you will. Yep...munching away on beautiful acropora colonies, chalices, and other SPS. All of them full of zooxanthellae too! I'll post a video below, but it's very impressive. We'll get into more details later.

There's also a study back from 2014 that links Ciliate communities to coral disease. Yes ICH is one of them! I found this very interesting. Make sure you watch that video as well.

2014 Study found here:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1385110115300095

In Houston...we're already hot on the trail doing research and testing. Dr. Deukmedjian does sell a product that is used as a dip. He also has another for in-tank treatment. This has lead many people to become very skeptical, but after you watch the video evidence of these parasites dying, you start to think wow! Trust me though...these videos are incredible! They speak for themselves. Anyway, the in-tank treatment is questionable with fish, but the dip is already working for several people. Psxerholic has been testing and I'm testing now too. Psx has already reported success with his fish. I think he mentioned he did loose one. I'm not sure if that was due to the treatment or what.?

Many more questions to be asked and nobody has all the answers yet which is why we're all working hard to find out more details. I'll link a video below that highlights the best two videos. There's many more on his channel. See the description section on my video for all the information about the products and join us in our search for all the answers and help test with us.

Had I read this in year 2 or 3 into my coral reef aquarium journey I probably would've called B.S. and not given it another look. Now that I've experienced enough coral success and loss across many years I can say that I'm keenly interested in learning more about this research and maybe doing some tests. I've seen a lot of wild imported corals come in and some will rtn weeks or months after arrival while in holding, usually starting from a point of tissue damage, then are quickly stripped in a day or two. I've seen enough tanks nuked by dosing pump failures as well to have picked up on the differences in the way a coral that has been torched by a param swing dies vs one that is being consumed by some small parasitic origin, but has not been observed to have any visible infestation.

 

[Reefahholic]

Lots of closed minded-ness. My ears are open. Wallet, not so much.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. Nobody is being forced to buy it. Just sit back and let this thing unravel. Plenty of us testing and seeking more answers.

 

[JasPR]

well, I certainly have no definitive answers but I would say this, based on other research into other species. When we are faced with a challenge we tend to look for a solution we want to believe or one that is easy to address with a search for a single enemy-- I.E. a secret hidden enemy lurking in ones aquarium. Maybe. But Ovum's razor says all things being equal, usually the simplest answer is the correct one. Lower forms of life have very little tolerance and reaction for G.A.S.conditions ( General Adaptative syndrome). Meaning, Corals exist in a very narrow band of tolerance. And the margin between flourishing and surviving is narrow-- as is the margin between surviving and dying. Old time aquarists might recall the old three circle graph where there exists a sweet spot when all negative dynamics come together ( especially in a lower form of life with no real immune system) and the creature is doomed. In simple plain terms- a lower form of life has little range within its required parameters and anything can set off a decline. The proof of this? We have 'easy species and challenging species'. Why? Range of resistance to G.A.S. So I don't doubt that microbial and bacterial species exist in a system. But if the 'expensive one's die' and neighbors live, the old explanation is resistance to change being wider for some species over another. Man says " AH-HA!", and mother nature laughs. In the end, there is correlation, causation and coincidence. And it is so tempting to see coincidence as causation. When in truth often it is a case of weak correlation at best. The issue of a problem species back ground presence verses a full blown infestation would typically involve a large percentage of inhabitants/victims ( thus the word infection as opposed to presence) -- and the infestation would be that intersection between conditions that favor the offending species and the same conditions that weaken one host species. In addition, an explosion of one species might be in reaction to already dead tissue. Not yet visible to the naked eye but very noticeable to an opportunist species. Corals with no real defense, in crowded conditions ( something we all seem to strive for to get that 'look') and aggressive neighbors for instance, might be the synergy that moves some individuals into the GAS battle. Once locked into the second stage of G.A.S. tissue will begin to shut down and die, inviting explosions in numbers of opportunists-- remain humble and focused on the big picture-- its an art as much as a science-- or at least a feel for the limits of lower forms and the box they live in

 

[ca1ore]

Skepticism is the opposite of close-mindedness.

Exactly …. also central to the scientific method.

 

[ca1ore]

Problem is everyone says rtn for any acro that dies fast.

For some strange reason, I found that hysterically funny. It is true though. We apply imprecise terms to a broad range of observable conditions. Every pest anemone is a majano; every micro star is an asterina; every coral dies from RTN ….. and so on.

 

[jda]

Tissue loss is from a stress event that allows a pathogen to take over. The root cause is the stress event. While I have little doubt that any one of the pathogens listed could be one of the opportunists waiting for an opening, the stress event is the root cause, not the opportunist which healthy corals can fight off. Eradicating one opportunist just opens the door for the next one, then the next one, then the next one...

 

[vetteguy53081]

There will be as McBannister indicated- Temperature, parasites, salt mix, water flow, lighting, nipping, shading from light, and low or high levels of alk. Kalk and mag amongst other factors not mentioned that contribute to RTN

 

[Reefahholic]

I think a lot of things contribute to the stress event. I just don't feel like it's multiple players causing the 24 hour RTN on huge colonies. That Philaster parasite looks like he's built for speed. The same way a barracuda is built for speed. Then when you find this Philaster parasite present at every crime scene full of zooxanthellae and caught several times munching away on acropora (on video)- shouldn't that make you want to target him for more research. If indeed he's not responsible for the RTN's then lets get the research done and simply rule him out.

If I arrive at the scene of a crime and a guy is standing there with a smoking gun in his hand, blood on his clothes, shell casings at his feet, fingerprints at the scene, and video evidence that he pulled the trigger....I mean come on. How much more evidence do we need? We need to get on this. For me....who cares about the product. Let's find the culprit first and then we'll deal with the product later.

 

[jda]

The coral is already dead by the time that the Philaster gets to it. If not this, then it would be something else. The coral was already stressed to where it was going to die. This seems too much like people blaming the bristle worms for kill their clams when all that they were doing is moving in on a terminally dead animal.

Even if you can eliminate the Philaster from a tank, you going to tackle the countless other pathogens that will replace it?

In your false-equivalency, the reef keeper killed the guy and left the gun at the crime scene. The pathogen got blood on his clothes trying to trying to get the money from the already-dead guy's wallet and then took the gun to try and pawn it. Certainly, the pathogen did not help, but he did not kill the guy either.