Possible solution to end RTN forever?!?

Discussion in 'Reef Aquarium Discussion' started by Reefahholic, Feb 28, 2019.

  1. Reefahholic

    Reefahholic Reef Junkie T.V. R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor

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    So if you haven't heard...Prime Coral has some impressive videos showing a parasite that's responsible for RTN and others that might be responsible for STN. This guy is from Florida and his name is Dr. Ara Deukmedjian. This Philaster parasite that he's captured on video eating acros sure fits the description of being the RTN culprit for all these years. This thing is very aerodynamic, extremely fast, and the numbers found on the Acropora frags and colonies are staggering. I've owned several microscopes and have never seen anything like it. Maybe I was looking in the wrong places! In his multiple videos, they've literally been caught with their hands in the cookie jar- if you will. Yep...munching away on beautiful acropora colonies, chalices, and other SPS. All of them full of zooxanthellae too! I'll post a video below, but it's very impressive. We'll get into more details later.

    There's also a study back from 2014 that links Ciliate communities to coral disease. Yes ICH is one of them! I found this very interesting. Make sure you watch that video as well.

    2014 Study found here:
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1385110115300095

    In Houston...we're already hot on the trail doing research and testing. Dr. Deukmedjian does sell a product that is used as a dip. He also has another for in-tank treatment. This has lead many people to become very skeptical, but after you watch the video evidence of these parasites dying, you start to think wow! Trust me though...these videos are incredible! They speak for themselves. Anyway, the in-tank treatment is questionable with fish, but the dip is already working for several people. Psxerholic has been testing and I'm testing now too. Psx has already reported success with his fish. I think he mentioned he did loose one. I'm not sure if that was due to the treatment or what.?

    Many more questions to be asked and nobody has all the answers yet which is why we're all working hard to find out more details. I'll link a video below that highlights the best two videos. There's many more on his channel. See the description section on my video for all the information about the products and join us in our search for all the answers and help test with us. ;)


     

  2. Softhammer

    Softhammer Active Member

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    There’s no way that’s the sole RTN cause. If so tell the good doc to call the Australian government. I’m sure they could use a few doses for the GBR.
     
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  3. Reefahholic

    Reefahholic Reef Junkie T.V. R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor

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    How do you know that? What’s your assumption? If you say absolutely no way...then at least propose why it can’t be!

    We know RTN starts with a stress event. IMO these parasites know exactly when that coral is stressed and are opportunistic feeders. When they get the signal (whatever it may be)...it’s party time! RTN RTN RTN!

    Did you watch the video?
     
  4. Gregg @ ADP

    Gregg @ ADP Well-Known Member

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    Maybe from reading studies showing Vibrio bacteria also being a (a, not the) cause.
     
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  5. Reefahholic

    Reefahholic Reef Junkie T.V. R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor

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    So what is the cause?
     
  6. Gregg @ ADP

    Gregg @ ADP Well-Known Member

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    Probably numerous players.
     
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  7. mdbannister

    mdbannister Ahh...the Reef Life Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Photo of the Month Award Partner Member 2019 R2R Secret Santa Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor

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    RTN seems to be a way to describe rapid coral death rather than a singular phenomenon that has a singular cause. I agree with @Gregg @ ADP. There are probably numerous things that can cause RTN.
     
  8. Reefahholic

    Reefahholic Reef Junkie T.V. R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor

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    I agree...numerous parasites.

    If it was vibrio bacteria then we should easily be able to treat it with broad spectrum gram negative antibiotics.

    I havn’t seen any evidence that Vibrio is present on every single Acro colony unlike the Philaster parasite. If these were the cause of RTN...they should be present on every RTNing Acro colony. IMO these guys lack the speed needed to RTN huge colonies in 24 hours. That takes heavy numbers and speed.
     
  9. Reefahholic

    Reefahholic Reef Junkie T.V. R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor

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    See that’s the thing...nobody really knows.

    The key word here is probably. So if we don’t have any evidence of the other “probably causes” and there’s video evidence of Philaster parasites present at the scene- eating on every single Acro colony that’s RTNing so far....why would we not look more closely into this Doctors claims?
     
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  10. mdbannister

    mdbannister Ahh...the Reef Life Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Photo of the Month Award Partner Member 2019 R2R Secret Santa Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor

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    Thing is, those parasites would have to be present in literally every system that has ever experienced RTN for them to be the cause of all RTN. A reef tank is a closed system, so unless a parasite is introduced it can't be present. Hence, my doubt that this could be the singular cause of all RTN.
     
  11. Reefahholic

    Reefahholic Reef Junkie T.V. R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor

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    I believe that they’re opportunistic. Just like Uronema. When the coral has a stress event...I think it triggers them with some sort of signal. Maybe because the coral releases a chemical, smell, etc. Then the swarm comes in. Who knows? All I know is that there’s several videos and they’re present munching Acro tissue every single time.
     
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  12. Reefahholic

    Reefahholic Reef Junkie T.V. R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor

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    With the numbers that I’m seeing... I would go out on a limb and say that there are more common than ICH.
     
  13. Zack33

    Zack33 Active Member

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    RTN might be caused by a ciliate (parasite), it might be caused by a Vibrio sp., and it might be caused by some other things as well.
    I think if you go through the scientific literature, you will see what RTN is often considered one of the different "White Syndromes" and therefore is very poorly studied. Furthermore, there seems to be a lot of issues with the classifications of these diseases and what causes them, and if they are even actually different diseases or just all the same with varied symptoms.

    I'm glad to see this treatment is working, however I do wonder how much a simple hobbyist classifies RTN incorrectly, when it is in fact a different disease. There is so much unknown in the literature concerning coral diseases (trust me I'm literally writing a dissertation on the subject).
    I need to read some information from Dr. Ara Deukmedjian to be caught up on this specific topic, before I can provide more useful opinions. I'd just like to caution putting all your eggs in one basket when it comes to coral diseases, as they are often not as straight forward as they may seem.
     
  14. Zack33

    Zack33 Active Member

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    Any idea if DNA sequencing has proven that it is the same species in each of these instances?
     
  15. Punchanello

    Punchanello Active Member

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    The presence of a particular bug on an RTNed colony is correlatory but is not evidence of causation.
     
  16. Reefahholic

    Reefahholic Reef Junkie T.V. R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor

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    Doubt it. Would love to see that!
     
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  17. ca1ore

    ca1ore Valuable Member R2R Supporter CTARS Member R2R Excellence Award R2R TV Featured Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor

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    That’d be my suspicion also. I almost never get RTN after the first few days of receiving a new coral, and it never spreads. Doesn’t mean that some parasite isn’t to blame, but I’d suspect that the rapid loss of tissue is symptomatic of many different pathogens and stress conditions.
     
  18. Reefahholic

    Reefahholic Reef Junkie T.V. R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor

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    Yeah, we’ve all thought about that. But...it’s always there and seems to be the only logical answer at this point.
     
  19. Reefahholic

    Reefahholic Reef Junkie T.V. R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor

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    Ca1ore, check this out bro!

    This was tonight.

     
  20. Demonic

    Demonic Love Change

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    I read and watched the videos, and started to believe it. Then I found the link to the magic juice need to kill these “parasites”. And of course it’s out of this world expensive. Reminds me of back in the way early years when they went around selling the magic elixirs
     
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