Prime Does Not Remove Ammonia

MnFish1

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Yes, I've read the Seachem info saying the alert badge is suitable for measuring free ammonia when Prime is used.

Dan and others demonstrate it is not showing a change. Hence Dan's proper conclusion in the title of this thread.

Might the world be more complicated than we or Seachem understand? Certainly.
I don't know I you saw my quote about how the Seachem alert reads and doesnt read (Their words) toxic ammonia - this reads to me that the Seachem Alert badge is not the best way to do the test.:

"If the Prime® has not complexed with the ammonia yet it will detect it, but it won't detect it if the Prime® has already complexed it (which makes sense because when Prime® has complexed with the ammonia it is no longer toxic). If you want to know the total ammonia level (free, ionized and complexed) you would need to run a Total Ammonia Test (like with our MultiTest Ammonia)"

Now - to me - this quote does not make complete sense. I just put it out as a suggestion as to why the Seachem alert badge is reading differently than what would expect.
 
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Randy Holmes-Farley

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I don't know I you saw my quote about how the Seachem alert reads and doesnt read (Their words) toxic ammonia - this reads to me that the Seachem Alert badge is not the best way to do the test.:

"If the Prime® has not complexed with the ammonia yet it will detect it, but it won't detect it if the Prime® has already complexed it (which makes sense because when Prime® has complexed with the ammonia it is no longer toxic). If you want to know the total ammonia level (free, ionized and complexed) you would need to run a Total Ammonia Test (like with our MultiTest Ammonia)"

Now - to me - this quote does not make complete sense. I just put it out as a suggestion as to why the Seachem alert badge is reading differently than what would expect.

I read that differently. Seachem is not always font of interpretable technical information, but to me they very clearly indicate the alert badge correctly reads free ammonia even when Prime is present.
 

MnFish1

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I read that differently. Seachem is not always font of interpretable technical information, but to me they very clearly indicate the alert badge correctly reads free ammonia even when Prime is present.
After talking to their technical support I have a different opinion. The unfortunate thing is that the multest is a horrible test
 
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Malcontent

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After talking to their technical support I have a different opinion. The unfortunate thing is that the multest is a horrible test

They make more money selling Prime than their ammonia test so if they're going to throw one under the bus it's going to be the ammonia test.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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After talking to their technical support I have a different opinion. The unfortunate thing is that the multest is a horrible test

Have you tried it with Prime yet?
 
AS

MnFish1

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Have you tried it with Prime yet?
I am sick - so no - I'm not sure if you saw the post on the other thread - in which I posted that the test kit (when I tried it) - seemed faulty - in that all of the disks turned blue (dark blue) - including RODI, and including the reference (despite the Seachem alert badge showing completely yellow - and the API test showing completely yellow. I can not find (for sure) an expiration date on the box, etc - but there is a number 101695 stamped - which may imply that the kit is expired. I will try it again later this week (PS I also posted the proposed protocol of the new test on the other thread in the experiment section)
 

MnFish1

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In case anyone wants to do some more experimentation - I just saw this product - made by "Ecological laboratories". The product name "Microbe-Lift Xtreme". Claims per Petco: "
a Full-function, buffered, water conditioner for Ponds and Aquariums. Salt & Fresh Water. Reef safe.

  • - Detoxifies Nitrite
  • - Destroys and removes Chloramines
  • - 16oz treats up to 960 gallons.
  • - Removes Ammonia"
There is apparently a German distributor Aquasabi - I'm assuming its the same product: "

Description​


Microbe-Lift XTreme is a specially developed water conditioner for all marine and freshwater aquariums. It prevents a dangerous increase in ammonium/ammonia and nitrite, reliably removes chlorine/chloramines and heavy metals. In addition, the mucous membrane and gills of the fish are protected. XTreme water conditioner makes tap water safe for all living organisms in the aquarium and creates an important basis for the habitat of beneficial bacteria."
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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That is an old and different material, hydroxymethane sulfonate:


Chemical Abstracts Service (CAS) number and unique identifiers:
PRODUCT
Water
Sodium Hydroxymethanesulfonate Sodium Bicarbonate
Sodium Chloride
Edetate Sodium:
Aloe Vera
CAS# 7732-18-5 870-72-4 144-55-8 7647-14-5 64-02-8
Percent 75-80 20-25 1-2 0.1-0.2 0.4-0.5
*
*The specific chemical identity and/or exact percentage of composition has been withheld as a trade secret.
*
Chemica
 
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Malcontent

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Everyone and their dog has an ammonia/nitrite/nitrate detoxifier these days:

1652281362225.png

*Ignore that extra Seachem Prime entry.

The new kid on the block is API Aqua Essential.
 

threebuoys

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Everyone and their dog has an ammonia/nitrite/nitrate detoxifier these days:

1652281362225.png

*Ignore that extra Seachem Prime entry.

The new kid on the block is API Aqua Essential.
@Malcontent , are you maintaining this table? An additional column that would be interesting would be "contents identified?" (just yes or no would suffice) on the off chance that any of them have provided the specs.
 

Bucs20fan

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Forgive me for being ignorant, and I mean no disrespect, but I know that the bottle says "removes and detoxifies ammonia" but in my years of using prime for both fresh and saltwater, I was always educated that prime does not "remove" the ammonia, it just binds it and makes the ammonia so it is no longer toxic to fish? Which is why it would still show up on an ammonia test and/or the ammonia badge because the ammonia is still present in the tank, just made less toxic?
 
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Randy Holmes-Farley

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Forgive me for being ignorant, and I mean no disrespect, but I know that the bottle says "removes and detoxifies ammonia" but in my years of using prime for both fresh and saltwater, I was always educated that prime does not "remove" the ammonia, it just binds it and makes the ammonia so it is no longer toxic to fish? Which is why it would still show up on an ammonia test and/or the ammonia badge because the ammonia is still present in the tank, just made less toxic?

Yes, we addressed those sorts of caveats in the thread. I do not think there’s evidence that it works.
 

Bucs20fan

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Im not a chemist by any means, but when I have had an ammonia spike more than once over the years, and it always happens while im away, ive had someone add prime to the tank and it has worked until I could correct the problem. This includes fish actively showing symptoms of ammonia poisoning and prime definitely put a patch on the problem to save the fish. I guess what im confused about is many of us have used it for the same thing for many years and it has definitely done something regarding ammonia.
 
BRS

MnFish1

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Im not a chemist by any means, but when I have had an ammonia spike more than once over the years, and it always happens while im away, ive had someone add prime to the tank and it has worked until I could correct the problem. This includes fish actively showing symptoms of ammonia poisoning and prime definitely put a patch on the problem to save the fish. I guess what im confused about is many of us have used it for the same thing for many years and it has definitely done something regarding ammonia.
When you say an 'ammonia spike' - what level are you talking about - and what was the pH of the tank? Because lets say you got a 1 total ammonia reading in a tank with pH 7.8 - if you calculate the 'free ammonia' - its 0.029 - which is barely above the 'safe zone' - which is <.02. Thus you can add a cap full of distilled water - and the likelihood is that the fish will not show many (if any) symptoms. Inverts might be another story. Certainly you want the level to be '0'. But its important to realize that total ammonia is not the same as 'free ammonia' - and free ammonia can vary based on pH, salinity and temperature. This MIGHT explain the reason Prime seems to help. It also may lower pH some as well - which will also lower free ammonia. IDK.
 

MnFish1

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That is an old and different material, hydroxymethane sulfonate:


Chemical Abstracts Service (CAS) number and unique identifiers:
PRODUCT
Water
Sodium Hydroxymethanesulfonate Sodium Bicarbonate
Sodium Chloride
Edetate Sodium:
Aloe Vera
CAS# 7732-18-5 870-72-4 144-55-8 7647-14-5 64-02-8
Percent 75-80 20-25 1-2 0.1-0.2 0.4-0.5
*
*The specific chemical identity and/or exact percentage of composition has been withheld as a trade secret.
*
Chemica
Yes - I realize its different - I was more curious about how it 'removes' nitrates and ammonia.
 

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