Putting Pond Matrix to the test now that Marinepure is out!

[Scott.h]

Not the same how? It is the same

i don't know, but I thought the same thing. Why not just put a measurable amount of amonia in there and let it cycle itself. Then I came across something written by randy saying it wasn't the same thing. So I excepted his explanation. It stemmed from someone adding urine to the tank. But I don't remember enough to explain it. I tried looking for it but when you do a search for amonia a million things pop up.

@Randy Holmes-Farley - what is the difference between store bought amonia, and cycling a tank vs the kind we measure in a tank?

 

[Roggio]

On a whim tonight I decided to test the tank. I cannot believe the results. I tested twice and I'm racking my brain to try and figure out how this happened. I will go into a detailed list of everything I did because in less than a week I was successful. By no means was my test proper controlled test and other variables could have come into play. As much as I don't want to believe it... the Pond Matrix was a key component.

The results speak for themselves. Incase it's hard to see the Nitrates are around 5 or less.

Here's a list of everything that happened with this tank.

Tank cleaned with vinegar
Sand added from an old tank
Added a few pieces of rock
sand treated with a little Biomate, Zeobak and Zeozym.
without testing I added ammonia and a bottle of Bio-Spira.
I continued to add ammonia daily until the bacteria was able to drop it to zero within 24 hours.
Phosphates and Nitrates remained off the charts
tank sat roughly for a month or longer
Phosphates and Nitrates were still off the charts when I added 20L of Pond Matrix and a little Bio-Spira I had left in the bottle.
Prior to adding the Pond Matrix the sand still had a brownish tint to it and the water was cloudy (see first pic)
After adding the media the water was noticeably clearer within 24 hours
Despite the high phosphates/Nitrates I decided to add the clown as a small source of ammonia. I watched them closely for any signs of distress.
I believe in the Redfield Ratio and thought the addition of a small ammonia source would be helpful over what I thought would be weeks of cycling.

5 days later these are my results... I almost feel foolish posting them. Without a doubt the Pond Matrix served as a surface to grow bacteria. Denitrifying bacteria was able to form and consume the nitrates. I don't think this means Matrix is the Holy Grail of keeping your nutrients in check but it definitely worked in my application.

IMO this is part of a inexpensive system to control nutrients. If you combine bio media with some kind of carbon source you will see the best results.

I will leave the tank as is for a little longer and continue to test ... stay tuned!

 

[Donovan Joannes]

You will love it. Bio media and carbon will work like magic if done right. Let bacteria do the job and save that dollar notes buying livestock and corals.

 

[Reefcowboy]

I Wish BRS tested Brightwell's Xport bricks as well. I wonder if the sulfur coating, and ph control of the media really works in practice. On another note, If I were with Brightwell, would be doing some quick marketing to prove their blocks dont leach Al, so their ship wouldnt sink along with the last one's fiasco.

Ive had at some point however three Marine Pure 8x4" blocks in the sump of my 57 gal, loaded with sps thriving. We never want however to add something we cant test often or know long term effects.

 

[Reefcowboy]

To Brightwells credit, I read that they have testing results coming up soon to address the Al

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If you combine bio media with some kind of carbon source you will see the best results.

Why do you believe that is better than organic carbon dosing alone?

 

[Reefcowboy]

Randy,

In your opinion, a 2" deep sanded along with minimal rock coupled with carbon dosing, be enough to do all needed to keep a tank rocking?

If the bacteria carrying nitrification need food, and if we stop dosing nitrate goes back up, technically the media for them to grow isn't determining of what is really needed, but food source?

 

[GoVols]

Why do you believe that is better than organic carbon dosing alone?

Randy,
That's a great point!!!!!!!

 

[Roggio]

Why do you believe that is better than organic carbon dosing alone?

The bio media serves as a great place to house the bacteria especially with the growing trend of minimal rock work; the carbon serves as a food source. I tend to dose my carbon onto or next to my bio media. In the event that a tank crashes or you have some kind of outbreak it might be worthwhile to be able to remove most of the display without completely cycling again. Most in this hobby tend to upgrade or move tanks at some point. There's also a lot of benefit in multiple nutrient export/control methods. I'm able to control the nutrients in my tank with carbon dosing and media alone but I still employ GAC, a refugium and protein skimmer. I dose Vodka as my carbon source and it keeps my water clearer and my protein skimmer more productive.

 

[GoVols]

The bio media serves as a great place to house the bacteria especially with the growing trend of minimal rock work; the carbon serves as a food source. I tend to dose my carbon onto or next to my bio media. In the event that a tank crashes or you have some kind of outbreak it might be worthwhile to be able to remove most of the display without completely cycling again. Most in this hobby tend to upgrade or move tanks at some point. There's also a lot of benefit in multiple nutrient export/control methods. I'm able to control the nutrients in my tank with carbon dosing and media alone but I still employ GAC, a refugium and protein skimmer. I dose Vodka as my carbon source and it keeps my water clearer and my protein skimmer more productive.

Randy has a valid point but I'm just glad that your making progress and happy.

Regards, GoVols

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The bio media serves as a great place to house the bacteria especially with the growing trend of minimal rock work; the carbon serves as a food source. I tend to dose my carbon onto or next to my bio media. In the event that a tank crashes or you have some kind of outbreak it might be worthwhile to be able to remove most of the display without completely cycling again. Most in this hobby tend to upgrade or move tanks at some point. There's also a lot of benefit in multiple nutrient export/control methods. I'm able to control the nutrients in my tank with carbon dosing and media alone but I still employ GAC, a refugium and protein skimmer. I dose Vodka as my carbon source and it keeps my water clearer and my protein skimmer more productive.

I've just not heard of folks unable to reduce nitrate with organic carbon without special biomedia, so I'm not convinced it is "better".

 

[bif24701]

I've just not heard of folks unable to reduce nitrate with organic carbon without special biomedia, so I'm not convinced it is "better".

True, if you add enough carbon it's not possible for NO3 to not reduce. Is it possible that high surface area biomedia is more effective and less carbon is required? I think it's possible. I do know that when, years ago, I experimented with over dosing carbon occasionally the corals went crazy in a good way. The snot like stuff was unsightly but must have made good food for the SPS and if your carbon dosing is well established the system would clear up in a day no problem.

 

[GoVols]

I've just not heard of folks unable to reduce nitrate with organic carbon without special biomedia, so I'm not convinced it is "better".

+1
And I just feel that nothings better than the deep live rock pores that support denitrifying bacteria.
But... That's JMO.

 

[GoVols]

True, if you add enough carbon it's not possible for NO3 to not reduce. Is it possible that high surface area biomedia is more effective and less carbon is required? I think it's possible. I do know that when, years ago, I experimented with over dosing carbon occasionally the corals went crazy in a good way. The snot like stuff was unsightly but must have made good food for the SPS and if your carbon dosing is well established the system would clear up in a day no problem.

(lol)
bif24701,
Years ago, I made the "BIG" mistake of doing a 50% water change with TM Bio Actif salt mix. ;Dead

Freddie

 

[Reefcowboy]

(lol)
bif24701,
Years ago, I made the "BIG" mistake of doing a 50% water change with TM Bio Actif salt mix. ;Dead

Freddie

What happened?

 

[GoVols]

What happened?

I can't even describe all the kinds of bacteria that bloomed (stewed up) and lost some SPS before it was over.
I did not read the directions and it was my fault.

Learned one lesson, for what it's worth...
If you use a salt mix that has a carbon source in it... Then how much carbon are you dosing when you make a water change?
I could not answer that question so I've just used a straight up salt mix ever since.

At least when you carbon dose daily, you know how much your dosing.

 

[bif24701]

(lol)
bif24701,
Years ago, I made the "BIG" mistake of doing a 50% water change with TM Bio Actif salt mix. ;Dead

Freddie

Carbon dosing not established? That will happen. Yea I would overdose by accident many times, started noticing that the next day or three, when ever it cleared up, all the corals were super happy. Huge PE, growth spurts, and the whole tank looked better all together.

 

[Roggio]

I've just not heard of folks unable to reduce nitrate with organic carbon without special biomedia, so I'm not convinced it is "better".

I believe this but I also believe in the benifits associated with using both. By using the bio media you should be able to rely on other methods less; with this you may find a better balance between the positive and negative affects of carbon dosing. I plan on incorporating this media into my sump when the experiment is over. I will report my experience when things settle in.

Also, @Randy Holmes-Farley I can't tell you how much I appreciate your contribution to the hobby. Reef Keeping is therapeutic to me.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

True, if you add enough carbon it's not possible for NO3 to not reduce. Is it possible that high surface area biomedia is more effective and less carbon is required? I think it's possible. I do know that when, years ago, I experimented with over dosing carbon occasionally the corals went crazy in a good way. The snot like stuff was unsightly but must have made good food for the SPS and if your carbon dosing is well established the system would clear up in a day no problem.

I think it's only possible to reduce nitrate faster with a biomedia plus organics, compared to organics alone, if you experience denitrification. If that is what's happening, then you will reduce phosphate less, so there is perhaps a trade off.

 

[bif24701]

I think it's only possible to reduce nitrate faster with a biomedia plus organics, compared to organics alone, if you experience denitrification. If that is what's happening, then you will reduce phosphate less, so there is perhaps a trade off.

Well I use cheato and don't have to worry about either. I add two cups to 32 gallons of Kalk, but that's it. The cheato fuge has become so effective I have to add a little NO3/PO4 occasionally. Good problem to have.

I have three MarinePure Blocks and I'm sure they help, don't know how much but I don't have a nutrient problem.