QT Process Modifications for Captive-Bred Regal Angelfish?

[TeeJay87]

I’ll soon be receiving a Bali Aquarich Captive-Bred Regal Angelfish from Reef Beauties. Since Angelfish are sensitive to copper and this fish was captive-bred & expensive, I’ve considered taking 1 of the following approaches:

A) Following the standard quarantine process in the sticky.
B) Following the standard quarantine process in the sticky, but slowly raising the copper over 4 days to 2.0 and maintaining at that level with Hanna checker.
C) Doing a very minimal observational quarantine that would likely entail making sure the fish eats, ensuring there are no signs of obvious illness, then moving to an isolation box in the DT until comfortable eating there. DT has $1300 pounds of live rock/sand, and $320 of fish (firefish and anthias). The Regal is a $300 fish.

I’m sort of leaning towards Option C, because it seems least likely to result in the QT/me being the cause of downfall to the fish. Thoughts on these options or any modifications you would make to the standard QT process for this fish?

 

[blaxsun]

That's a tough call either way. I'm leaning towards "C" - how long would your minimal/observational quarantine be?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I’ll soon be receiving a Bali Aquarich Captive-Bred Regal Angelfish from Reef Beauties. Since Angelfish are sensitive to copper and this fish was captive-bred & expensive, I’ve considered taking 1 of the following approaches:

A) Following the standard quarantine process in the sticky.
B) Following the standard quarantine process in the sticky, but slowly raising the copper over 4 days to 2.0 and maintaining at that level with Hanna checker.
C) Doing a very minimal observational quarantine that would likely entail making sure the fish eats, ensuring there are no signs of obvious illness, then moving to an isolation box in the DT until comfortable eating there. DT has $1300 pounds of live rock/sand, and $320 of fish (firefish and anthias). The Regal is a $300 fish.

I’m sort of leaning towards Option C, because it seems least likely to result in the QT/me being the cause of downfall to the fish. Thoughts on these options or any modifications you would make to the standard QT process for this fish?

If copper, run coppersafe or Copper power at therapuetic level. As long as you provide good water quality and oxygen, , , should hold up well. Good news is rare that they come in with ich- its usually lympho and occasionally flukes

 

[MnFish1]

I’ll soon be receiving a Bali Aquarich Captive-Bred Regal Angelfish from Reef Beauties. Since Angelfish are sensitive to copper and this fish was captive-bred & expensive, I’ve considered taking 1 of the following approaches:

A) Following the standard quarantine process in the sticky.
B) Following the standard quarantine process in the sticky, but slowly raising the copper over 4 days to 2.0 and maintaining at that level with Hanna checker.
C) Doing a very minimal observational quarantine that would likely entail making sure the fish eats, ensuring there are no signs of obvious illness, then moving to an isolation box in the DT until comfortable eating there. DT has $1300 pounds of live rock/sand, and $320 of fish (firefish and anthias). The Regal is a $300 fish.

I’m sort of leaning towards Option C, because it seems least likely to result in the QT/me being the cause of downfall to the fish. Thoughts on these options or any modifications you would make to the standard QT process for this fish?

A. IMHO - if you're going to follow a QT protocol you always follow it.

 

[TeeJay87]

That's a tough call either way. I'm leaning towards "C" - how long would your minimal/observational quarantine be?

I would think atleast 3 days to get feeding and comfortable assuming everything is going really well. Also as soon as the fish is looking settled in and eating, I would think I should do a freshwater dip to check for flukes ASAP.

 

[threebuoys]

Full QT with coppersafe or copper power. No need to ramp up slowly. Done properly you should have no problems.

 

[TeeJay87]

A. IMHO - if you're going to follow a QT protocol you always follow it.

Appreciate your response and thought I should mention where I got the suggestions that Angelfish were sensitive to Copper and to ramp to 2.0 and maintain there.

Humble.fish mentions angelfish copper sensitivity here (and also suggests cupramine may be better than chelated copper).

Difficult Fish to QT guide

Below is a list of difficult fish to quarantine, with specific recommendations on QT strategies for each group of fish. Angelfish (and their sensitivity to copper) I've never figured out if angels being sensitive to copper is a "thing" or not. They do seem to fare a little better in Cupramine...

humble.fish

Then BRStv came up with a QT process this year (directed by Marine Collectors) and suggested the ramp up to 2.0 over 4 days (see the end of the article). Elliot, from Marine Collectors, mentions Angelfish as one of the copper sensitive fish in the video.

How To Quarantine & Steps to Knock Out Saltwater Fish Disease - Fish Health Ep: 6

When it comes to saltwater fish quarantine, aquarists must decide between fish disease eradication vs the more realistic practice of managing fish disease. For the vast majority of us, proper disease management is the goal because complete eradication is just not realistic. The good news is that...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

I realize a simple process with no stipulations is the easiest follow, but I’m curious, does anyone know if Jay Hemdal ever makes any modifications to his QT process in the sticky for specific fish?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Appreciate your response and thought I should mention where I got the suggestions that Angelfish were sensitive to Copper and to ramp to 2.0 and maintain there.

Humble.fish mentions angelfish copper sensitivity here (and also suggests cupramine may be better than chelated copper).

Difficult Fish to QT guide

Below is a list of difficult fish to quarantine, with specific recommendations on QT strategies for each group of fish. Angelfish (and their sensitivity to copper) I've never figured out if angels being sensitive to copper is a "thing" or not. They do seem to fare a little better in Cupramine...

humble.fish

Then BRStv came up with a QT process this year (directed by Marine Collectors) and suggested the ramp up to 2.0 over 4 days (see the end of the article). Elliot, from Marine Collectors, mentions Angelfish as one of the copper sensitive fish in the video.

How To Quarantine & Steps to Knock Out Saltwater Fish Disease - Fish Health Ep: 6

When it comes to saltwater fish quarantine, aquarists must decide between fish disease eradication vs the more realistic practice of managing fish disease. For the vast majority of us, proper disease management is the goal because complete eradication is just not realistic. The good news is that...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

I realize a simple process with no stipulations is the easiest follow, but I’m curious, does anyone know if Jay Hemdal ever makes any modifications to his QT process in the sticky for specific fish?

The angelfish/copper issues stems from the old ionic copper products and needing to ramp those up slowly, it does not apply to amine-based copper. That said, these angels can come in really small. This makes them more sensitive to all medications, salinity changes, etc.
If they’ve been through the regular supply chain, they can pick up disease issues from the dealer’s tanks. This can make them tough to work with.

Is your quarantine system already set up and stable? If not, I’d go with scenario C.

Personally, I’d opt for scenario D - get a different fish (grin). There are just some fish that aren’t worth the effort/risk, and for me, this is one species like that.

Jay

 

[TeeJay87]

The angelfish/copper issues stems from the old ionic copper products and needing to ramp those up slowly, it does not apply to amine-based copper. That said, these angels can come in really small. This makes them more sensitive to all medications, salinity changes, etc.
If they’ve been through the regular supply chain, they can pick up disease issues from the dealer’s tanks. This can make them tough to work with.

Is your quarantine system already set up and stable? If not, I’d go with scenario C.

Personally, I’d opt for scenario D - get a different fish (grin). There are just some fish that aren’t worth the effort/risk, and for me, this is one species like that.

Jay

Thanks for the info Jay. There was a decent chance my QT had Uronema, so I cleaned and let everything dry, and as a result, don’t have a stable system. I will be doing 100% water changes and wiping the tank/equipment down every 3 days for as long as the fish is in QT.

Bummer about scenario D. Everything I’ve read talked about how much easier Captive-Bred Fish are to keep bc they are used to aquarium only life and are already eating pellets, frozen, etc.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks for the info Jay. There was a decent chance my QT had Uronema, so I cleaned and let everything dry, and as a result, don’t have a stable system. I will be doing 100% water changes and wiping the tank/equipment down every 3 days for as long as the fish is in QT.

Bummer about scenario D. Everything I’ve read talked about how much easier Captive-Bred Fish are to keep bc they are used to aquarium only life and are already eating pellets, frozen, etc.

Oh, these are much better than wild caught, but tiny angels just have some inherent issues.
Jay

 

[Tanggy]

Op. What did you decide for your QT for the regal?

 

[TeeJay87]

Op. What did you decide for your QT for the regal?

I decided on atleast 15 days of observational quarantine, but the regal is so small (and following some advice on observational quarantine), I will likely be doing atleast 30 days, maybe 2 months. We will see how fast he grows.

I’m doing 100% WC every 3 days per the 2022 BRStv QT process. Per that process, I’m leaning towards Prazipro application on 3 consecutive WCs for 9 days of Prazipro in total.

I’m hoping it is 99% safe to assume Ick and Velvet would have shown up on a captive-bred by Day 30 of observational quarantine, but I need to read up on that.

I’m on day 8 and he’s doing good. Eats 5 different types of food that I have. Only thing he wasn’t too interested in was the seaweed extreme pellets, but they are probably too large. He’s got some really cool horizontal/misbar lines on his right side.

 

[Tamberav]

I decided on atleast 15 days of observational quarantine, but the regal is so small (and following some advice on observational quarantine), I will likely be doing atleast 30 days, maybe 2 months. We will see how fast he grows.

I’m doing 100% WC every 3 days per the 2022 BRStv QT process. Per that process, I’m leaning towards Prazipro application on 3 consecutive WCs for 9 days of Prazipro in total.

I’m hoping it is 99% safe to assume Ick and Velvet would have shown up on a captive-bred by Day 30 of observational quarantine, but I need to read up on that.

I’m on day 8 and he’s doing good. Eats 5 different types of food that I have. Only thing he wasn’t too interested in was the seaweed extreme pellets, but they are probably too large. He’s got some really cool horizontal/misbar lines on his right side.

I had ich show up in observational QT on a bellus angel at exactly the 5 week mark.

 

[Tanggy]

I decided on atleast 15 days of observational quarantine, but the regal is so small (and following some advice on observational quarantine), I will likely be doing atleast 30 days, maybe 2 months. We will see how fast he grows.

I’m doing 100% WC every 3 days per the 2022 BRStv QT process. Per that process, I’m leaning towards Prazipro application on 3 consecutive WCs for 9 days of Prazipro in total.

I’m hoping it is 99% safe to assume Ick and Velvet would have shown up on a captive-bred by Day 30 of observational quarantine, but I need to read up on that.

I’m on day 8 and he’s doing good. Eats 5 different types of food that I have. Only thing he wasn’t too interested in was the seaweed extreme pellets, but they are probably too large. He’s got some really cool horizontal/misbar lines on his right side.

The misbar looks good. Good luck with him.

 

[TeeJay87]

I had ich show up in observational QT on a bellus angel at exactly the 5 week mark.

Sorry to hear that; I hope the bellus is doing well now. Did you add copper at that point? Also curious if you did prazipro or anything else for flukes/parasites.

 

[Tamberav]

Sorry to hear that; I hope the bellus is doing well now. Did you add copper at that point? Also curious if you did prazipro or anything else for flukes/parasites.

I did prazipro 7 days apart and did CP. This was awhile ago, the bellus went to a new home when I moved.

I just wanted to let you know that ich can remain undetected.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I’ll soon be receiving a Bali Aquarich Captive-Bred Regal Angelfish from Reef Beauties. Since Angelfish are sensitive to copper and this fish was captive-bred & expensive, I’ve considered taking 1 of the following approaches:

A) Following the standard quarantine process in the sticky.
B) Following the standard quarantine process in the sticky, but slowly raising the copper over 4 days to 2.0 and maintaining at that level with Hanna checker.
C) Doing a very minimal observational quarantine that would likely entail making sure the fish eats, ensuring there are no signs of obvious illness, then moving to an isolation box in the DT until comfortable eating there. DT has $1300 pounds of live rock/sand, and $320 of fish (firefish and anthias). The Regal is a $300 fish.

I’m sort of leaning towards Option C, because it seems least likely to result in the QT/me being the cause of downfall to the fish. Thoughts on these options or any modifications you would make to the standard QT process for this fish?

Yes! C IS THE WAY TO GO! You really don't wanna further stress an already stressed fish that doesn't tolerate copper well. Make sure it's eating right, shows no obvious signs of illness for a week and introduce it as gently as possible.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I decided on atleast 15 days of observational quarantine, but the regal is so small (and following some advice on observational quarantine), I will likely be doing atleast 30 days, maybe 2 months. We will see how fast he grows.

I’m doing 100% WC every 3 days per the 2022 BRStv QT process. Per that process, I’m leaning towards Prazipro application on 3 consecutive WCs for 9 days of Prazipro in total.

I’m hoping it is 99% safe to assume Ick and Velvet would have shown up on a captive-bred by Day 30 of observational quarantine, but I need to read up on that.

I’m on day 8 and he’s doing good. Eats 5 different types of food that I have. Only thing he wasn’t too interested in was the seaweed extreme pellets, but they are probably too large. He’s got some really cool horizontal/misbar lines on his right side.

Since you are doing that many water changes anyway, I would siphon the water off the bottom of the tank (taking care not to snag the fish!). That way, you are siphoning out some/most of the ich tomonts and Neobenedenia eggs that might be present.

Jay

 

[TeeJay87]

Since you are doing that many water changes anyway, I would siphon the water off the bottom of the tank (taking care not to snag the fish!). That way, you are siphoning out some/most of the ich tomonts and Neobenedenia eggs that might be present.

Jay

Good info. I’m following their process of removing fish with a large specimen container and draining the tank completely, wiping all insides of the tank and equipment with a sponge, drying tank with a paper towels, then adding the new water, equipment and fish.

 

[Dr. Reef]

As some of you know I am in business of selling qted fish.
My recommendation for captive bred fish like yellow tangs, hippos, angels etc that are sensitive to copper is to leave them in a sterile tank for 30 days. Then next 2 weeks or so you can do prazi and metro to clean the internal. 45 days later If you don't see any parasites like ich or velvet then you are good.
If you must then do a 1ppm copperpower and over few days bring it to 1.5ppm and that's about it for 14 days.
These fish specially angels are very very sensitive at that small size and age. Any slightly harsh treatment will kill the fish quickly. Just my opinion and experience.