QT tank, dose or observe only?

[me & my baby]

Your post is moot because why there are protocols posted here just to avoid such issues.

And asking for more evidence on such a subject where many post info that is out dated because of newer methods makes me a person that’s like talkin to a brick wall?

Okay I will go observe only. Let’s just ban copper. Again you did not even come close to answering my questions in regards to the articles you linked. Did you see my post from the article literally that the subject was not chelated copper.

Here is the quote again from the article posted. NOT me saying this but in the quote. Also you’re telling me ionic copper is the same as chelated? Is that your stance with your post here??

The quire from the article you posted to me.

“This publication will concentrate on the use of "bluestone" or "blue copperas" copper sulfate (CuSO4 •5H2O; i.e., copper sulfate pentahydrate), the most commonly used form of copper for aquaculture.”

Is this your definition of chelated? Last I checked it’s literally in the article that chelated has additives that make it less toxic. Copper Power is said to be 60% less toxic. So show my the studies on said subject and let’s keep it apples to apples. You’re literally stating that all antibiotics are the same. Haha. There is gram point of sale, and gram neg. Not all are the same.

The fact you keep saying some people don’t have this or that is my point exactly why the medical section of this form exists. It’s to get the correct info out there for new people that don’t understand QR. I will post a video I made not long ago see if you can answer the question I mention in it. And it will show you the proof it works. Again the evidence is in the countless people I see here do it correctly and save fish and have a healthy tank once done correctly. Vs dead fish if the disease is caught in time.

Never once did I say not to use copper I guess you didn’t read that part I said I don’t see the need to treat with copper if there are no symptoms . I also stated and will do again that artical I posted yes the main part was about copper sulfate and once again I will also state the part of the impact on the fish was about COPPER wither it be chelated or sulfate . I am not sure what part of that do you not comprehend. Here is another article that talks about copper sulfate and chelated copper and it also states both have a negative impact of the gills and liver . https://apps.dnr.wi.gov/swims/Documents/DownloadDocument?id=330737998
But once again you will say something negative and smart about that one . Never never have I said that copper should not be used . All I have said is why put a fish through that unnecessary. You pick in choose what you want to respond to . I have stated fact about the copper I have also stated fact about how the fish are held till they get to you . I fill like I am having a debate with on of my children when they where in high school . Very closed minded and bucks at anything that is said back that doesn’t fit what your narrative. I am a proponent for treating fish when they are sick . I am just opposed to treating for something that there is no sign or symptoms of . Just because there are 100s of successful fish treated with copper doesn’t mean that there are no lingering side effect that we can not see . Do you take blood from your fish to see of its liver is working 100% no you don’t . Do you test to see if there is any lingering side effect no you don’t because such test don’t exist. All I am saying with all that the fish had gone through before it lands in your house is why put it through something unnecessary. I am sure you will have something to say about this . Before you do turn towards you wall and say it . Then you will know how it feels talking to you .

 

[winxp_man]

Never once did I say not to use copper I guess you didn’t read that part I said I don’t see the need to treat with copper if there are no symptoms . I also stated and will do again that artical I posted yes the main part was about copper sulfate and once again I will also state the part of the impact on the fish was about COPPER wither it be chelated or sulfate . I am not sure what part of that do you not comprehend. Here is another article that talks about copper sulfate and chelated copper and it also states both have a negative impact of the gills and liver . https://apps.dnr.wi.gov/swims/Documents/DownloadDocument?id=330737998
But once again you will say something negative and smart about that one . Never never have I said that copper should not be used . All I have said is why put a fish through that unnecessary. You pick in choose what you want to respond to . I have stated fact about the copper I have also stated fact about how the fish are held till they get to you . I fill like I am having a debate with on of my children when they where in high school . Very closed minded and bucks at anything that is said back that doesn’t fit what your narrative. I am a proponent for treating fish when they are sick . I am just opposed to treating for something that there is no sign or symptoms of . Just because there are 100s of successful fish treated with copper doesn’t mean that there are no lingering side effect that we can not see . Do you take blood from your fish to see of its liver is working 100% no you don’t . Do you test to see if there is any lingering side effect no you don’t because such test don’t exist. All I am saying with all that the fish had gone through before it lands in your house is why put it through something unnecessary. I am sure you will have something to say about this . Before you do turn towards you wall and say it . Then you will know how it feels talking to you .

I will respond in full to your post. But for now, you do know copper toxicity in FW vs SW is different yes? And you little shoving something in my face saying I will have negative things to say regardless? That assumption gives a be a good chuckle. This study you posted is for fresh water, black on white.

In SW copper is less toxic vs FW. Thus making this article irrelevant to our discussion here. I will never mind sayin someone is right when they bring me the evidence. Thus far, if we were to compile data of properly done QT with chelated copper, I bet you would be surprised what we would see.

 

[me & my baby]

https://www.mantasystems.net/a/blog/post/Copper

https://extension.rwfm.tamu.edu/wp-...n-Marine-Aquaculture-and-Aquarium-Systems.pdf
Most of the fish in the trade have been exposed to copper from the time they reach the wholesaler then the local or online store before it comes home .

 

[Fish Fan]

Saw you liked this... guess it's ok to be dismissive and outright disrespectful to other member as long as they are part of Jay's fan club, huh @Fish Fan? Practice what you preach.

@me & my baby Not worth it amigo. Happy reefing.

No, I don't condone any R2R member being dismissive or disrespectful to anyone, though I don't think that was a terribly dismissive or disrespectful comment, especially compared to all that you said about Jay last night.

I do, however, agree with the bulk of that member's post, and what you may not know about me is that I 'like' just about every post from all the R2R Fish Medic team members. It's my way of supporting the Fish Medic team as I believe they do great work, and I am thankful and respectful of the time they (largely) voluntarily give to the R2R community. I do the same for all the R2R staff and moderation team, as well as the R2R Reef Squad team, as well as several R2R members who I've become friendly with over the many years I've been a regular contributor on R2R. Many times I'm 'liking' the poster as much as the post

Please know that I will not engage with you or anyone in a fruitless argument. Your reply to me here was entirely antagonistic, and meant to keep driving this back-and-forth that you say you dislike so much. If you reply to this and wish to keep egging things on, it will fall on deaf ears from me.

I will say that I've 'liked' some of your other posts from last night, and I do hope that we can collaborate in a much more fruitful way going forward

 

[MnFish1]

Hence why I said some fish vets put pure honey over the sores . Pure honey is a natural antibacterial. I guess you missed that part of my post

I didn't miss it - I've heard of it for fish wounds (not sure I completely believe it) but "Honey can be incredibly effective for healing fish wounds, but it does not treat or cure the parasite Uronema"

 

[Fish Fan]

All,

This thread comes up three times a year at least - to medicate in a QT or not, and every time it devolves into tremendous back and forth, with little forward progress.

I'm on reccord in this very thread suggesting that the topic at hand is personal, and one we must all decide for ourselves. I lean heavily towards one side of the equation, but I respect other approaches.

I would like to ask everyone, does anyone think that they are going to change the mind of anyone else here? This is like arguing what politician is best while in church. No one is going to move the needle.

The OP is long gone, possibly never to return to R2R, and who knows what happened to his poor fish.

I would suggest we let this thread drop (before Bean Animal finds it, at which point it WILL get shut down )

This just seems like fruitless back-and-forth to me at this point, with no one being able to convince the other side.

Rant ended

 

[MnFish1]

https://www.mantasystems.net/a/blog/post/Copper

https://extension.rwfm.tamu.edu/wp-...n-Marine-Aquaculture-and-Aquarium-Systems.pdf
Most of the fish in the trade have been exposed to copper from the time they reach the wholesaler then the local or online store before it comes home .

I believe I have no disagreement with this quote. 1. No one here recommends keeping invertebrates with copper. 2. we are not talking about 'chronic' exposure. 3. As it says in your quote, chelated copper (what is recommended on this site) is what to use for sensitive species. Or did I misunderstand?

 

[MnFish1]

All,

This thread comes up three times a year at least - to medicate in a QT or not, and every time it devolves into tremendous back and forth, with little forward progress.

I'm on reccord in this very thread suggesting that the topic at hand is personal, and one we must all decide for ourselves. I lean heavily towards one side of the equation, but I respect other approaches.

I would like to ask everyone, does anyone think that they are going to change the mind of anyone else here? This is like arguing what politician is best while in church. No one is going to move the needle.

The OP is long gone, possibly never to return to R2R, and who knows what happened to his poor fish.

I would suggest we let this thread drop (before Bean Animal finds it, at which point it WILL get shut down )

This just seems like fruitless back-and-forth to me at this point, with no one being able to convince the other side.

Rant ended

Can't disagree with you - the information about honey was interesting. I don't think anyone will be necessarily convinced, but for anyone reading the thread later who wants to read the most recent QT or no QT debate, IMHO its important to discuss it if someone wants to discuss it. JMHO

 

[Fish Fan]

Can't disagree with you - the information about honey was interesting. I don't think anyone will be necessarily convinced, but for anyone reading the thread later who wants to read the most recent QT or no QT debate, IMHO its important to discuss it if someone wants to discuss it. JMHO

At this point the OP is long gone, so I say if you guys want to keep hashing it out, go for it

I was just hoping to ease some of the argumentative hostility in this thread. I absolutely believe the topic should be discussed, and I'm happy to debate it. I just think it shouldn't happen over someone's thread when they are asking for help, and I'd like to see all R2R members respecting those on both sides of this topic.

OK, rant REALLY ended now

 

[MnFish1]

At this point the OP is long gone, so I say if you guys want to keep hashing it out, go for it

I was just hoping to ease some of the argumentative hostility in this thread. I absolutely believe the topic should be discussed, and I'm happy to debate it. I just think it shouldn't happen over someone's thread when they are asking for help, and I'd like to see all R2R members respecting those on both sides of this topic.

OK, rant REALLY ended now

The OP responded to something I wrote about dimming the light a bit ago - I don't think he or she is traumatized (yet)

 

[13rodo]

I will say that I've 'liked' some of your other posts from last night, and I do hope that we can collaborate in a much more fruitful way going forward

I agree :)

Really wasn’t an attempt to reengage. I’ve checked out on the actual topic and don’t plan to ever engage in it again.

 

[13rodo]

https://www.mantasystems.net/a/blog/post/Copper

https://extension.rwfm.tamu.edu/wp-...n-Marine-Aquaculture-and-Aquarium-Systems.pdf
Most of the fish in the trade have been exposed to copper from the time they reach the wholesaler then the local or online store before it comes home .

TAMU.EDU?!? Hey my undergrad alma mater made it into the thread!

 

[Fish Fan]

I agree :)

Really wasn’t an attempt to reengage. I’ve checked out on the actual topic and don’t plan to ever engage in it again.

I appreciate your reply, but lack of your engagement with the forum or this topic was certainly not my hope

I've just seen this question asked in the past, and I'm going to say that this may be the most hotly debated topic in reefing.

@AlyciaMarie could we at least get the OP a special badge for starting what has to be the hottest thread this week

I'm always happy to discuss this, and I always try to be respectful of other member's methodologies. I just wish this QT debate wouldn't end up with two sides just arguing over The Office's "Which Bear Is Best"



Thank you for your reply!

 

[13rodo]

I appreciate your reply, but lack of your engagement with the forum or this topic was certainly not my hope

I've just seen this question asked in the past, and I'm going to say that this may be the most hotly debated topic in reefing.

@AlyciaMarie could we at least get the OP a special badge for starting what has to be the hottest thread this week

I'm always happy to discuss this, and I always try to be respectful of other members methodologies. I just wish this QT debate wouldn't end up with two sides just arguing over The Office's "Which Bear Is Best"



Thank you for your reply!

Have you seen the director’s cut seasons of The Office? If you have access to Peacock they are all on there… highly recommend!

 

[Fish Fan]

Have you seen the director’s cut seasons of The Office? If you have access to Peacock they are all on there… highly recommend!

I have not, but I love the show, and my wife and I were just talking about rewatching The Office - so funny

 

[13rodo]

I have not, but I love the show, and my wife and I were just talking about rewatching The Office - so funny

If y’all do the directors cut added a ton of extra footage that gives a bunch of extra context to some of the other scenes. It’s like it’s a whole new show!

 

[Fish Fan]

If y’all do the directors cut added a ton of extra footage that gives a bunch of extra context to some of the other scenes. It’s like it’s a whole new show!

I would like to check that out

 

[nuvocube]

Great thread

 

[dirtyd61]

I won some free frags at my local store tonight and I wasn’t really ready for that. Sooooo one quick trip to Walmart and digging through my left over old gear… now we have a coral QT as well. Lights going on tomorrow…

Repurposed my biocube Nanobox light. Will extend the wiring and move the drivers/controller to wall mount tomorrow.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

https://www.mantasystems.net/a/blog/post/Copper

https://extension.rwfm.tamu.edu/wp-...n-Marine-Aquaculture-and-Aquarium-Systems.pdf
Most of the fish in the trade have been exposed to copper from the time they reach the wholesaler then the local or online store before it comes home .

Just to clarify a point, the text on the Manta Systems web site is written by Tamara Marshall. She has some public aquarium and pet industry experience, but anything that she writes is no more or less valid that what is written here.