Quarantine and Fallow Questions??

[AlphaFenrir00]

I had inherited an established tank of 2 years that has what I believe is brook or velvet, I had 2 clownfish that initially were in the tank. Without knowing better I added two fish into the tank, one being a lawnmower blenny and one being a royal gramma, one from petland and one from petco. I noticed the gramma looked a little strange but I didn’t know any better so I put them into the tank without another thought. After some time my gramma went missing, which wasn’t unusual because she hid for the first few days, but eventually after a few days of not seeing her with my feeding, I decided she was probably gone. I examined my other fish super closely and noticed one of my clownfish had extra mucus and some but not many white specs. The fish that were sick in this time stayed near the bottom of the tank, hard respirations, extra mucus on the body, and had their appetite until the last day of being sick. I’m in the process of getting a quarantine system in place for the future but I am gonna have to go completely fallow in the main tank for at least 90 days to be safe. When you go fallow are you allowed to keep inverts like shrimp, crabs, and snails? I’m just looking for any information on the quarantining process and the fallowing process

 

[vetteguy53081]

I had inherited an established tank of 2 years that has what I believe is brook or velvet, I had 2 clownfish that initially were in the tank. Without knowing better I added two fish into the tank, one being a lawnmower blenny and one being a royal gramma, one from petland and one from petco. I noticed the gramma looked a little strange but I didn’t know any better so I put them into the tank without another thought. After some time my gramma went missing, which wasn’t unusual because she hid for the first few days, but eventually after a few days of not seeing her with my feeding, I decided she was probably gone. I examined my other fish super closely and noticed one of my clownfish had extra mucus and some but not many white specs. The fish that were sick in this time stayed near the bottom of the tank, hard respirations, extra mucus on the body, and had their appetite until the last day of being sick. I’m in the process of getting a quarantine system in place for the future but I am gonna have to go completely fallow in the main tank for at least 90 days to be safe. When you go fallow are you allowed to keep inverts like shrimp, crabs, and snails? I’m just looking for any information on the quarantining process and the fallowing process

Petco already a concern and the fish mentioned prone to ich
Can you post a 20-30 second video under bright white light intensity, no blue to see what the fish have?

 

[Clarkjw2002]

Yes, you can keep everything that is not a fish in the tank when you go fallow.

For QT I prefer tank transfer with presumptive treatment for parasites with praziquantel and metronidazole but most here seem to prefer QT with copper treatment instead of tank transfer. There is a recommended procedure posted here:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/current-quarantine-protocol.825055/

I advise QT for all fish before putting into your system after your fallow period is done. Some folks QT everything, including snails. I don't (but I only buy snails from fishless systems) but it is a calculated risk. I do QT corals too and always, ALWAYS, replace the frag plug upon receipt.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Tank transfer can be stressful for many fish and requires multiple tanks. I dont advise metro which must be used precisely by weight and can make foods taste bitter to fish

 

[kboogie]

I had inherited an established tank of 2 years that has what I believe is brook or velvet, I had 2 clownfish that initially were in the tank. Without knowing better I added two fish into the tank, one being a lawnmower blenny and one being a royal gramma, one from petland and one from petco. I noticed the gramma looked a little strange but I didn’t know any better so I put them into the tank without another thought. After some time my gramma went missing, which wasn’t unusual because she hid for the first few days, but eventually after a few days of not seeing her with my feeding, I decided she was probably gone. I examined my other fish super closely and noticed one of my clownfish had extra mucus and some but not many white specs. The fish that were sick in this time stayed near the bottom of the tank, hard respirations, extra mucus on the body, and had their appetite until the last day of being sick. I’m in the process of getting a quarantine system in place for the future but I am gonna have to go completely fallow in the main tank for at least 90 days to be safe. When you go fallow are you allowed to keep inverts like shrimp, crabs, and snails? I’m just looking for any information on the quarantining process and the fallowing process

Someone beat me to the punch on the link to Jay Hemdal's quarantine procedure. I reiterate a few things that have been said.

First, it is important not to allow anything into your DT without going through a full medicated QT process for Ich and Velvet. Please, please, please don't fall victim to the false interpretations of research that has people doing only 14 days of medicated QT. You want to be at 30 days of therapeutic medication for Ich and Velvet. Copper is a well-proven medication, but it is not appropriate for all situations (some fish can't tolerate copper), but where it can be used, it should be used because of how much of a proven medication it is.

Second, similar to the fallacies associated with copper, for flukes you want to conduct three treatments of praziquantel, this ensures any flukes that are in egg stage at the time of treatment can hatch and be caught with subsequent treatments. Dips don't kill eggs, so they are only solution for temporary relieve and they do not solve the problem. I like using praziquantel powder because it doesn't have the solvents which do linger after the praziquantel has been broken down. The downside of praziquantel powder is that it is harder to dose.

Third, many people treat bacterial infections only when they are present so don't stress about that.

 

[MnFish1]

Tank transfer can be stressful for many fish and requires multiple tanks. I dont advise metro which must be used precisely by weight and can make foods taste bitter to fish

Agree tank transfer is probably more of an issue than copper. Additionally there is no need for metronidazole. If you give metronidazole in the tank it’s not an issue. Giving it in food is what requires careful dosing etc.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I had inherited an established tank of 2 years that has what I believe is brook or velvet, I had 2 clownfish that initially were in the tank. Without knowing better I added two fish into the tank, one being a lawnmower blenny and one being a royal gramma, one from petland and one from petco. I noticed the gramma looked a little strange but I didn’t know any better so I put them into the tank without another thought. After some time my gramma went missing, which wasn’t unusual because she hid for the first few days, but eventually after a few days of not seeing her with my feeding, I decided she was probably gone. I examined my other fish super closely and noticed one of my clownfish had extra mucus and some but not many white specs. The fish that were sick in this time stayed near the bottom of the tank, hard respirations, extra mucus on the body, and had their appetite until the last day of being sick. I’m in the process of getting a quarantine system in place for the future but I am gonna have to go completely fallow in the main tank for at least 90 days to be safe. When you go fallow are you allowed to keep inverts like shrimp, crabs, and snails? I’m just looking for any information on the quarantining process and the fallowing process

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

To add to what the others have said - yes, you can house invertebrates in a tank during the fallow period. However, adding new invertebrates during that time can "break" the fallow period if they came from a tank that was housing untreated fish.

A 90 day fallow period will work, but it is much longer than is needed. 60 days is fine.

 

[AlphaFenrir00]

I had inherited an established tank of 2 years that has what I believe is brook or velvet, I had 2 clownfish that initially were in the tank. Without knowing better I added two fish into the tank, one being a lawnmower blenny and one being a royal gramma, one from petland and one from petco. I noticed the gramma looked a little strange but I didn’t know any better so I put them into the tank without another thought. After some time my gramma went missing, which wasn’t unusual because she hid for the first few days, but eventually after a few days of not seeing her with my feeding, I decided she was probably gone. I examined my other fish super closely and noticed one of my clownfish had extra mucus and some but not many white specs. The fish that were sick in this time stayed near the bottom of the tank, hard respirations, extra mucus on the body, and had their appetite until the last day of being sick. I’m in the process of getting a quarantine system in place for the future but I am gonna have to go completely fallow in the main tank for at least 90 days to be safe. When you go fallow are you allowed to keep inverts like shrimp, crabs, and snails? I’m just looking for any information on the quarantining process and the fallowing process

Petco already a concern and the fish mentioned prone to ich
Can you post a 20-30 second video under bright white light intensity, no blue to see what the fish have?

Thank you so much for your time. I’ve heard quite a few times now that petco is not a good option.Absolutely, I just took this video under my lights full white intensity.

 

[Clarkjw2002]

Agree tank transfer is probably more of an issue than copper. Additionally there is no need for metronidazole. If you give metronidazole in the tank it’s not an issue. Giving it in food is what requires careful dosing etc.

Yeah, I’ve seen this quite often so only mentioned.

I’ve actually had better results with it than I have with fully QT’ed fish in observation from a highly reputable source.

In my experience, the fish seem to get used to it by the second transfer. Have only done 10 or 20 fish over the yrs so my sample size is small. Starting with a healthy specimen is probably key.

I advise following the expert advice here, not my anecdotal experience, as you are just starting out.

 

[AlphaFenrir00]

Yes, you can keep everything that is not a fish in the tank when you go fallow.

For QT I prefer tank transfer with presumptive treatment for parasites with praziquantel and metronidazole but most here seem to prefer QT with copper treatment instead of tank transfer. There is a recommended procedure posted here:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/current-quarantine-protocol.825055/

I advise QT for all fish before putting into your system after your fallow period is done. Some folks QT everything, including snails. I don't (but I only buy snails from fishless systems) but it is a calculated risk. I do QT corals too and always, ALWAYS, replace the frag plug upon receipt.

Thank you so much for your help, I’m trying to get as much information as I can to prevent this from happening again. I could absolutely replace the frag plug with my Duncan or my hammer but how would you do that with a potato chip coral or a zoa frag?

 

[AlphaFenrir00]

I had inherited an established tank of 2 years that has what I believe is brook or velvet, I had 2 clownfish that initially were in the tank. Without knowing better I added two fish into the tank, one being a lawnmower blenny and one being a royal gramma, one from petland and one from petco. I noticed the gramma looked a little strange but I didn’t know any better so I put them into the tank without another thought. After some time my gramma went missing, which wasn’t unusual because she hid for the first few days, but eventually after a few days of not seeing her with my feeding, I decided she was probably gone. I examined my other fish super closely and noticed one of my clownfish had extra mucus and some but not many white specs. The fish that were sick in this time stayed near the bottom of the tank, hard respirations, extra mucus on the body, and had their appetite until the last day of being sick. I’m in the process of getting a quarantine system in place for the future but I am gonna have to go completely fallow in the main tank for at least 90 days to be safe. When you go fallow are you allowed to keep inverts like shrimp, crabs, and snails? I’m just looking for any information on the quarantining process and the fallowing process

Someone beat me to the punch on the link to Jay Hemdal's quarantine procedure. I reiterate a few things that have been said.

First, it is important not to allow anything into your DT without going through a full medicated QT process for Ich and Velvet. Please, please, please don't fall victim to the false interpretations of research that has people doing only 14 days of medicated QT. You want to be at 30 days of therapeutic medication for Ich and Velvet. Copper is a well-proven medication, but it is not appropriate for all situations (some fish can't tolerate copper), but where it can be used, it should be used because of how much of a proven medication it is.

Second, similar to the fallacies associated with copper, for flukes you want to conduct three treatments of praziquantel, this ensures any flukes that are in egg stage at the time of treatment can hatch and be caught with subsequent treatments. Dips don't kill eggs, so they are only solution for temporary relieve and they do not solve the problem. I like using praziquantel powder because it doesn't have the solvents which do linger after the praziquantel has been broken down. The downside of praziquantel powder is that it is harder to dose.

Third, many people treat bacterial infections only when they are present so don't stress about that.

I seriously appreciate all the information, I’m trying to soak it all in. I’m always having a hard time finding what product to use for this kind of stuff. Is there specific links and products you would recommend for illness treatments and products to keep in the quarantine tank, dipping products etc?

 

[AlphaFenrir00]

I had inherited an established tank of 2 years that has what I believe is brook or velvet, I had 2 clownfish that initially were in the tank. Without knowing better I added two fish into the tank, one being a lawnmower blenny and one being a royal gramma, one from petland and one from petco. I noticed the gramma looked a little strange but I didn’t know any better so I put them into the tank without another thought. After some time my gramma went missing, which wasn’t unusual because she hid for the first few days, but eventually after a few days of not seeing her with my feeding, I decided she was probably gone. I examined my other fish super closely and noticed one of my clownfish had extra mucus and some but not many white specs. The fish that were sick in this time stayed near the bottom of the tank, hard respirations, extra mucus on the body, and had their appetite until the last day of being sick. I’m in the process of getting a quarantine system in place for the future but I am gonna have to go completely fallow in the main tank for at least 90 days to be safe. When you go fallow are you allowed to keep inverts like shrimp, crabs, and snails? I’m just looking for any information on the quarantining process and the fallowing process

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

To add to what the others have said - yes, you can house invertebrates in a tank during the fallow period. However, adding new invertebrates during that time can "break" the fallow period if they came from a tank that was housing untreated fish.

A 90 day fallow period will work, but it is much longer than is needed. 60 days is fine.

Thank you so much, I haven’t seen people talk much about that part! Especially didn’t know if you added more it would reset the time! I’m so glad to be here with all you guys and be able to gain more knowledge to continue in this hobby the right way. These fish deserve better than what petco is doing to them and the lack of knowledge they give is unreal.

 

[Clarkjw2002]

Thank you so much for your help, I’m trying to get as much information as I can to prevent this from happening again. I could absolutely replace the frag plug with my Duncan or my hammer but how would you do that with a potato chip coral or a zoa frag?

That’s tougher but I assume it can be done. I’d just QT like fallow period. I don’t keep Zoas. It should be said that it’s not just the frag plug, but any bare skeleton is a potential issue—so hammers can be tough. I QT hammers and torches for 60 days because of this.

I keep a 40 gal permanently set up. It has rock, a heater, and everything. It is ignored until needed. Before use I do a big water change with old tank water and it’s good to go. Can use for fish observation too if you are mindful of fallow periods.

Highly recommend if you have the space.

Use the search function here for coral QT—or anything else you have questions about. Super useful.

 

[kboogie]

I had inherited an established tank of 2 years that has what I believe is brook or velvet, I had 2 clownfish that initially were in the tank. Without knowing better I added two fish into the tank, one being a lawnmower blenny and one being a royal gramma, one from petland and one from petco. I noticed the gramma looked a little strange but I didn’t know any better so I put them into the tank without another thought. After some time my gramma went missing, which wasn’t unusual because she hid for the first few days, but eventually after a few days of not seeing her with my feeding, I decided she was probably gone. I examined my other fish super closely and noticed one of my clownfish had extra mucus and some but not many white specs. The fish that were sick in this time stayed near the bottom of the tank, hard respirations, extra mucus on the body, and had their appetite until the last day of being sick. I’m in the process of getting a quarantine system in place for the future but I am gonna have to go completely fallow in the main tank for at least 90 days to be safe. When you go fallow are you allowed to keep inverts like shrimp, crabs, and snails? I’m just looking for any information on the quarantining process and the fallowing process

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

To add to what the others have said - yes, you can house invertebrates in a tank during the fallow period. However, adding new invertebrates during that time can "break" the fallow period if they came from a tank that was housing untreated fish.

A 90 day fallow period will work, but it is much longer than is needed. 60 days is fine.

Thank you so much, I haven’t seen people talk much about that part! Especially didn’t know if you added more it would reset the time! I’m so glad to be here with all you guys and be able to gain more knowledge to continue in this hobby the right way. These fish deserve better than what petco is doing to them and the lack of knowledge they give is unreal.

Jay Hemdal’s quarantine protocol provides recommended medications for each step. Additionally, he posted several posts on each recommended medications and alternatives. I’ll try to find the posts but if I know Jay he will post them here for you.

I use the following medications:

Fritz CopperSafe (treats Ich, Velvet, and other small parasites)

Praziquantel powder (treats flukes) measured with a gram scale and expressed through a reef diaper which basically a coffee filter.

Kanaplex (treats bacteria infections). I have it on hand just in case.

Metroplex (treats bacteria infections). I have it on hand just in case.

Rally Pro (treats some parasites and bacteria) less effect than other medications but is useful is some situations. Also a decent product for a dip.



Medications I plan to acquire in the future:

Chloroquine Phosphate (treats parasites and protozoas and more), it is a good alternative to copper for fish that are sensitive to copper. It is harder to acquire and some fish are sensitive to Choriquine Phosphate.


Methylene Blue (treats fungus) I’ve used this as a dip in my youth.

Malachite Green - Weaker medication that can be used for a wide variety of illnesses. I’ve used this when I’m not sure what is going on and as dip in my youth.



Below is a repost of the link to the QT protocol:

Current Quarantine Protocol

2024 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed, proactive quarantine process can effectively eliminate these...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[kboogie]

That’s tougher but I assume it can be done. I’d just QT like fallow period. I don’t keep Zoas. It should be said that it’s not just the frag plug, but any bare skeleton is a potential issue—so hammers can be tough. I QT hammers and torches for 60 days because of this.

I keep a 40 gal permanently set up. It has rock, a heater, and everything. It is ignored until needed. Before use I do a big water change with old tank water and it’s good to go. Can use for fish observation too if you are mindful of fallow periods.

Highly recommend if you have the space.

Use the search function here for coral QT—or anything else you have questions about. Super useful.

This is one of the pinned posts in the Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis forum. This post talks about treatment by type of fish:

Fish treatment variations by species and medication

Fish treatment variations by species and medication Not all fish species are able to be treated with generally used medications. There are some sensitivity issues between species that must be managed. However, sensitivity to a drug can also be seen in different dosages, how the drug is applied...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thank you so much for your time. I’ve heard quite a few times now that petco is not a good option.Absolutely, I just took this video under my lights full white intensity.

From appearance and swim pattern, fish is showing signs of brooklynella and common issue especially with wild caught clowns.
The most significant sign is the amount of slime on its body which is noticeable on the fish. This mucus generally starts at the facial area as well as gills and spreads across the body producing lesions as it progresses often confused with ich and can turn into secondary bacteria. Other symptoms will be lethargic behavior, refusing to eat and heavy breathing from the mucus.
Start with a prolonged 60 minute bath of ruby rally pro then at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank. The longer the fish are exposed to the treatment, the more effective it will be at eliminating this issue.
Since a formalin solution is often not available for use, temporary relief can be achieved by giving the fish a FW bath or dip in water same temperature as display tank. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems.
Treatment is best done in a QT tank using either quick cure (more effective but now harder to find) or Ruby Rally Pro. Ruby takes a little longer and initial treatment generally takes 2-3 days to really start going to work.
With the advanced stage of this- I recommend immediate quarantine of all inhabitants and leaving display without fish for 4-6 weeks.

 

[MnFish1]

Jay Hemdal’s quarantine protocol provides recommended medications for each step. Additionally, he posted several posts on each recommended medications and alternatives. I’ll try to find the posts but if I know Jay he will post them here for you.

I use the following medications:

Fritz CopperSafe (treats Ich, Velvet, and other small parasites)

Praziquantel powder (treats flukes) measured with a gram scale and expressed through a reef diaper which basically a coffee filter.

Kanaplex (treats bacteria infections). I have it on hand just in case.

Metroplex (treats bacteria infections). I have it on hand just in case.

Rally Pro (treats some parasites and bacteria) less effect than other medications but is useful is some situations. Also a decent product for a dip.



Medications I plan to acquire in the future:

Chloroquine Phosphate (treats parasites and protozoas and more), it is a good alternative to copper for fish that are sensitive to copper. It is harder to acquire and some fish are sensitive to Choriquine Phosphate.


Methylene Blue (treats fungus) I’ve used this as a dip in my youth.

Malachite Green - Weaker medication that can be used for a wide variety of illnesses. I’ve used this when I’m not sure what is going on and as dip in my youth.



Below is a repost of the link to the QT protocol:

Current Quarantine Protocol

2024 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed, proactive quarantine process can effectively eliminate these...

www.reef2reef.com

Great summary - you can also use hyposalinity for ICH and flukes. It is not effective for velvet - and invertebrates must be removed.

 

[kboogie]

Great summary - you can also use hyposalinity for ICH and flukes. It is not effective for velvet - and invertebrates must be removed.

Excellent point on the use of hyposalinity.