Question About Privacy At R2R

[Linlox]

This is a rabbit hole I will not go down.....so, hope OP sorts this out lol....

yeah I agree, this is a rabbit hole

 

[Üter]

I do almost the same thing for my sensitive info. But even then most of my info is out in the public domain.

People really want to be ticked? Look up Flock Safety. They are internet connected cameras that Police departments are putting everywhere. Lowe’s, Target, Home Depot etc have them watching every entrance to their properties. They scan your license plate against a police database. Granted that happened before it’s now being put virtually everywhere.

yup. been how they try and track crime and find peeps. from facial recognition to a pop that send cameras to look for where the shot came from. much different world.

Learned this year that every road that crosses my county line has a hidden camera that tracks the license plates and occupants of everything that crosses that line in and out, similar to the toll roads camera systems. This information goes directly to the county sherriff.

this is also part of traffic gps guidance. they track phones to see speeds to alter different routes. its what else they do with the data thats the problem.

 

[Fish Fan]

Actually surprised sbb replied to you being up front about what they are using and how it happened and that does say something about them. Most vendors are more secretive and would choose to ignore the request.

Actually, they did in fact ignore me and refused to answer my inquires about how they got my email (except a "sorry that happened" reply). It was not until I got the R2R mods involved and they contacted SBB did I get the reply about the software they are using. So that actually speaks to them being shady and secretive, and they know what they are doing is at the least unethical or they would have told me about it when I first asked them.

The OpenSend thing is shady. But trust me when I say that I can get EVERYTHING I want to know about you from just your posts on here. Everything has a trail. And it all leads to your data. With about an hour of work I could obtain everything I need to open an identical identity to you.

OK, sure, and I dare say you'd be a creep for doing it lol!

I fully understand nothing is secure anymore, but you simply cannot add someone to a business email marketing list without their permission, and I'm seriously shocked by what SBB is doing here.

I compiled a markdown of all the IPs in plain text that get queried by sbb's website if you want me to message it to you. You could compare all of those domains and see if you happened to ever log into one of them from your IP or browser in the past and that could be your culprit for the email share. It could be tedious.

it is. among a number of other things I don't use or need.

There's no mystery as to what happened. SBB is using a piece of software on their website called Opensend that when someone just visits their website for more than 20 seconds, it collects your personal data, and automatically signs you up for their mailing list. That's what happened to me.

 

[braaap]

OK, sure, and I dare say you'd be a creep for doing it lol!

I fully understand nothing is secure anymore, but you simply cannot add someone to a business email marketing list without their permission, and I'm seriously shocked by what SBB is doing here.

110% agree. Nothing that they have done is acceptable. Heck nothing have these companies do would be considered morally acceptable. But the dollar speaks.

 

[mjszos]

As someone who works in the information security field, this is a subject and a thread I’m deeply interested and invested in…

@Fish Fan - out of curiosity, on your browser do you have any privacy or “do not track” settings enabled? If so, this is in direct violation of the Disclaimer listed on the vendors website located here:

https://sbbcorals.com/disclaimer/
Within this:

“Do Not Track
Do Not Track is a privacy preference you can set in most browsers. We support Do Not Track because we believe that you should have genuine control over how your info gets used and our site responds to Do Not Track requests.”

Further (and this is where things get out of my purview), one would have to consent to the disclosure of this information. I find it unsettling that there is no mention of this service in their privacy policy.

Ultimately, your personal information isn’t safe anywhere and anonymity is a myth these days, however the ethics of these practices you encountered are questionable at best due to your lack of consent (visiting a webpage, unless you auto pilot clicked accept on something - which I did not have automatically pop up on my browser and I have never been to this site) and I would encourage @revhtree and the assorted R2R staff to provide a more robust vetting process for vendors to understand the kind of business they intend to operate before being represented on this platform. This is something I’d be happy to assist with, and I feel would be for the better of the community.

 

[Fish Fan]

Thank you for your reply! Admittedly, I'm not sure about my privacy settings. I have for years used Linux on my home computers, but this did happen while I was on a Windows based laptop. I'm not as familiar with the settings. I'm using Chrome. I do see where websites can ask for data, but I don't see anything that says blindly give them my personal info whenever they ask for it.

I know this kind of stuff happens, I know that no one is anonymous on the internet, but I think this is really unethical business practices to say the least, and again, I wouldn't buy a thing from this vendor anymore. I too wish that R2R would be stricter about this kind of thing, but the business is a sponsor of the site, so I don't see them taking any action over this.

I did file a complaint with the FTC. I'm 100% positive nothing will come of it, but a report was made.

 

[mjszos]

Thank you for your reply! Admittedly, I'm not sure about my privacy settings. I have for years used Linux on my home computers, but this did happen while I was on a Windows based laptop. I'm not as familiar with the settings. I'm using Chrome. I do see where websites can ask for data, but I don't see anything that says blindly give them my personal info whenever they ask for it.

I know this kind of stuff happens, I know that no one is anonymous on the internet, but I think this is really unethical business practices to say the least, and again, I would buy a thing from this vendor anymore. I too wish that R2R would be stricter about this kind of thing, but the business is a sponsor of the site, so I don't see them taking any action over this.

I did file a complaint with the FTC. I'm 100% positive nothing will come of it, but a report was made.

I don’t use Chrome personally, but this looks to be the setting in question:

https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/2790761?hl=en&co=GENIE.Platform=Desktop
Keep in mind this is a per browser specific setting, and knowing Google anytime Chrome updates it has a 50/50 chance of reverting. I’d also be wary of these settings on your browser of choice on Linux.

Overall disappointing to see this happen; forums like this are the last bastion of the old internet, and while I understand sponsorships are what keep the lights on there should be a mutual agreement with the vendors they choose to do business with to respect the privacy of their users unless someone explicitly opts in.

 

[Fish Fan]

So that setting is "on" but in the link you provided it actually says that websites might still use your data, so I'm not sure what good it does lol!

"However, what happens to your data depends on how a website responds to the request. Many websites will still collect and use your browsing data to improve security, provide content, services, ads and recommendations on their websites, and generate reporting statistics."

 

[mjszos]

So that setting is "on" but in the link you provided it actually says that websites might still use your data, so I'm not sure what good it does lol!

"However, what happens to your data depends on how a website responds to the request. Many websites will still collect and use your browsing data to improve security, provide content, services, ads and recommendations on their websites, and generate reporting statistics."

You’re correct, but as I mentioned in my previous response they claim to respect these requests.

Now, it doesn’t matter in this instance since the lack of this setting essentially acted as your consent (albeit in a questionable manner), but it’s something worth looking out for to try to maintain your anonymity.

Generally speaking while I find it disappointing this is the situation I firmly believe R2Rs staffs ethics wouldn’t allow this given their approach to personal information and I wouldn’t have this discourage your participation on this platform. Hopefully it serves as an example to encourage positive change.

 

[Fish Fan]

My setting is "on" meaning is tells websites not to track my info; that's the default in Chrome.

And SBB claims to respect that, and Openshare claims it abides by all laws, but I don't trust anyone who develops or uses a service like Openshare.

 

[stE26wy14]

My setting is "on" meaning is tells websites not to track my info; that's the default in Chrome.

And SBB claims to respect that, and Openshare claims it abides by all laws, but I don't trust anyone who develops or uses a service like Openshare.

tbh, everything u do, online and in real world, I technically tracked and can be traced, credit card transactions, phone location, not trying to scare u, but just telling u that this is kinda normal, u receive scam emails/texts/calls all the time im guessing, thats one example. Its not rlly that difficult to track a phone too(if u know code), but just to show u, that this stuff rlly happens(ITS RARE, dont be worried, its rarely happens, but gov have access to this stuff, and black hat hackers who r reaaaally good, which again is rare, can access gov stuff and personal stuff)

 

[Fish Fan]

tbh, everything u do, online and in real world, I technically tracked and can be traced, credit card transactions, phone location, not trying to scare u, but just telling u that this is kinda normal, u receive scam emails/texts/calls all the time im guessing, thats one example. Its not rlly that difficult to track a phone too(if u know code), but just to show u, that this stuff rlly happens(ITS RARE, dont be worried, its rarely happens, but gov have access to this stuff, and black hat hackers who r reaaaally good, which again is rare, can access gov stuff and personal stuff)

As mentioned, I'm not a babe-in-the-woods here. I understand how the internet works, though I did not know what SBB was doing when I started this thread. My original concern was that somehow they got my information from R2R.

That said, now that I know what they are doing, my opinion is that it's extremely shady, and I for one will not do business with them for this reason.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Tell me that's right!

I'm bummed, this isn't R2R's fault, but I'm shocked they'd partner with a seller who does this.

Did not read further yet than this post. This is the norm now, not an exception. We can quibble about ethics and the law, but everything that you do online, as well as carrying a mobile device, or your face in public for that matter, is being tracked. Even if you don’t use Facebook, they are tracking you. Amazon, google, Apple, Microsoft, and thousands of players in between. They know what time you eat, poop and feed the cat. They know where your friends vacation and your mother in law shops and what medicine you are not taking but is prescribed and what ailment runs in your family. There is no real privacy anymore. Not R2Rs fault and we can’t expect them to uphold some gold standard that they have no chance of honoring, let alone what it would do to their revenue stream if they did.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Without saying more, I have expertise in this field..

 

[Fish Fan]

Did not read further yet than this post. This is the norm now, not an exception. We can quibble about ethics and the law, but everything that you do online, as well as carrying a mobile device, or your face in public for that matter, is being tracked. Even if you don’t use Facebook, they are tracking you. Amazon, google, Apple, Microsoft, and thousands of players in between. They know what time you eat, poop and feed the cat. They know where tour friends vacation and your mother in law shops. There is no real privacy anymore. Not R2Rs fault and we can’t expect them to uphold some gold standard that they have no chance of honoring, let alone what it would do to their revenue stream if they did.

Thank for your reply! I said repeatedly that this is not R2R's fault, just to be clear.

And new norm or not, this is not ethical. You can't sign someone up for an email mailing list without their permission.

And again, my original concern - which was valid - was that my information was somehow taken from R2R.

But knowing what SBB is doing, I won't do business with them.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Thank for your reply! I said repeatedly that this is not R2R's fault, just to be clear.

Ohh fully understood, but it would be impossible for them to shun partners who market using tools like this, given how prolific they are.

And new norm or not, this is not ethical. You can't sign someone up for an email mailing list without their permission.

The law is a little more nuanced than that. But not worth hashing out here. I don’t see any real change coming soon and the entities claiming to protect you (the companies I mentioned) don’t want less marketing in your inbox, they just want it to be run through them and not their competitors. Pay to play basically.

But knowing what SBB is doing, I won't do business with them.

You will be hard pressed to find any vendor not tied into one of these systems either directly or through the platform they use to sell or collect funds, or logins, etc. sad, but reality.

Ask the restaurant who gets your SMS info when you book a reservation. Who gets your contact info when you login into your various reef control apps, etc.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Without saying more, I have expertise in this field..

@HomebroodExotics something funny you would like to share? I am not seeing the humor in my post.

 

[Fish Fan]

Ohh fully understood, but it would be impossible for them to shun partners who market using tools like this, given how prolific they are.

Agreed, and in retrospect I realize that R2R most likely didn't know SBB was doing this.

The law is a little more nuanced than that.

Not really. There's direct and indirect consent, and I gave them neither.

You will be hard pressed to find any vendor not tied into one of these systems either directly or through the platform they use to sell or collect funds, or logins, etc. sad, but reality.

Ask the restaurant who gets your SMS info when you book a reservation. Who gets your contact info when you login into your various reef control apps, etc.

I get it, I really do! But what SBB did and is doing is just so blatant. I mean, they are not even pretending like they are not stealing info lol!

Thanks again, Bean, I always appreciate your insight.

 

[HomebroodExotics]

@HomebroodExotics something funny you would like to share? I am not seeing the humor in my post.

Yes i thought it was funny. Lots of experience you have. Thanks for letting everyone know.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Agreed, and in retrospect I realize that R2R most likely didn't know SBB was doing this.


Not really. There's direct and indirect consent, and I gave them neither.


I get it, I really do! But what SBB did and is doing so just so blatent. I mean, they are not even pretending like they are not stealing info lol!

Thanks again, Bean, aways appreciate your insight.

The crazy part is that is the tip of the iceberg in signal collection. The part that makes it even harder is that for every complainer like yourself there are countless others who’s contact attempts turn into sales. So the demand for this stuff just keeps growing as vendors try to gain a comparative edge and fight with the big dogs for remarketing share….

We are to the point where your personalized ads and contacts are starting to be based of off the very places you visit with your device AND who you are regularly near with their device. Crazy.