Quicker Red Sea Testing with a Magnetic Stirrer?

[neoGeorge]

I purchased a magnetic stirrer to make testing with the Red Sea Pro kits easier, and hopefully faster too. Alkalinity is easy, Calcium isn't too bad, but the Magnesium and Nitrate tests have always been painful.

For the Mg test, the instructions call for adding 5 drops of reagent A, with 15 seconds of stirring between each drop, followed by 5 drops of reagent B and stirring for 60 seconds, then titration.

Since the magnetic stirrer is so efficient at mixing, I'm wondering if the timing could be sped up. Say, while the salt water is being stirred for the Mg test, add reagent A at like one second per drop? And for reagent B, perhaps 15 seconds in the stirrer is enough?

I had posted this under the General Discussion, but then realized this is the perfect question for the BRS team!

 

[randyBRS]

I purchased a magnetic stirrer to make testing with the Red Sea Pro kits easier, and hopefully faster too. Alkalinity is easy, Calcium isn't too bad, but the Magnesium and Nitrate tests have always been painful.
For the Mg test, the instructions call for adding 5 drops of reagent A, with 15 seconds of stirring between each drop, followed by 5 drops of reagent B and stirring for 60 seconds, then titration.
Since the magnetic stirrer is so efficient at mixing, I'm wondering if the timing could be sped up. Say, while the salt water is being stirred for the Mg test, add reagent A at like one second per drop? And for reagent B, perhaps 15 seconds in the stirrer is enough?
I had posted this under the General Discussion, but then realized this is the perfect question for the BRS team!

That's a solid question! We use magnetic stirrers like these for our larger mixing tests, but also Aaron uses a smaller one for the Red Sea Calcium test. I'll have to send out a question to the Red Sea folks and see if there is something to the contact or dwell time when adding Mg-A drops. I know this is one of the hardest ones for me to do consistently each time, because many times I forget what drop I'm on and have to start over. Now I do this test one-handed and use my other hand to count drops.

 

[neoGeorge]

That's a solid question! We use magnetic stirrers like these for our larger mixing tests, but also Aaron uses a smaller one for the Red Sea Calcium test. I'll have to send out a question to the Red Sea folks and see if there is something to the contact or dwell time when adding Mg-A drops. I know this is one of the hardest ones for me to do consistently each time, because many times I forget what drop I'm on and have to start over. Now I do this test one-handed and use my other hand to count drops.

Thanks Randy - I've watched your video on how to perform these tests and that was really helpful! With the magnetic stirrer, I can see that rpm could affect the timing between drops, and an inexpensive machine like the one I purchased does not specify speed; perhaps the stirring vortex could be used as a visual indicator for the proper speed of mixing when working with (hopefully) revised/reduced timing for the tests...

 

[JDowns]

I’ve found with a magnetic stirrer and Mg test, that I get the same results if I wait 15 seconds between drops A or just put all 5 drops at once. Done that a few times to test and have never seen a difference in results.

 

[randyBRS]

Well, straight from Red Sea themselves.

"The 15 and 60 seconds mixing time is not to properly mix the ingredients but rather allow the chemical reactions to take place, in this case, the precipitation of the calcium in the sample. More efficient mixing will not reduce the necessary reaction times to ensure an accurate test result."

So, I'd glean from this that it's fine to use a magnetic stirrer to complete the tests, however you'll still want to follow the prescribed mixing and wait times.

I wonder if @Randy Holmes-Farley might know how the Magnesium titration test works? (Since Red Sea mentions that the mixing time relates to the precipitation of the calcium. My guess is that allows the magnesium levels to register in a color change from the final reagent?)

 

[neoGeorge]

Well, straight from Red Sea themselves.

"The 15 and 60 seconds mixing time is not to properly mix the ingredients but rather allow the chemical reactions to take place, in this case, the precipitation of the calcium in the sample. More efficient mixing will not reduce the necessary reaction times to ensure an accurate test result."

So, I'd glean from this that it's fine to use a magnetic stirrer to complete the tests, however you'll still want to follow the prescribed mixing and wait times.

I wonder if @Randy Holmes-Farley might know how the Magnesium titration test works? (Since Red Sea mentions that the mixing time relates to the precipitation of the calcium. My guess is that allows the magnesium levels to register in a color change from the final reagent?)

Thanks Randy - excellent info!

 

[neoGeorge]

Continuing with the theme of easier testing, how about an electronic timer that walks you through each step of a test - especially useful for keeping track of drops during the Mg test or for alerting you when that long 9 or 15 minutes wait is completed for the Nitrate or Phosphate test? Here's a rough setup that I put together using an Arduino...

This is the Mg test. Add the first drop of reagent A, then press ENTER. The timer will count down from 15 seconds, beep and prompt you for drop #2, etc.

 

[randyBRS]

Continuing with the theme of easier testing, how about an electronic timer that walks you through each step of a test - especially useful for keeping track of drops during the Mg test or for alerting you when that long 9 or 15 minutes wait is completed for the Nitrate or Phosphate test? Here's a rough setup that I put together using an Arduino...

This is just awesome!

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

Continuing with the theme of easier testing, how about an electronic timer that walks you through each step of a test - especially useful for keeping track of drops during the Mg test or for alerting you when that long 9 or 15 minutes wait is completed for the Nitrate or Phosphate test? Here's a rough setup that I put together using an Arduino...

This is the Mg test. Add the first drop of reagent A, then press ENTER. The timer will count down from 15 seconds, beep and prompt you for drop #2, etc.

While I am not savvy enough to make something like this, I do have a question that maybe @randyBRS can help with.

I know there is an impact on drop interval during titration tests on the result of the test. (For example, Red Sea Mg test will have a high result if you go too quick)

So would it be beneficial to use a metronome (musician by trade here) to help keep to a consistent speed for accuracy? What would that bpm (beats per minute) need to be per Red Sea?

 

[neoGeorge]

This is just awesome!

Thanks Randy!

 

[neoGeorge]

While I am not savvy enough to make something like this, I do have a question that maybe @randyBRS can help with.

I know there is an impact on drop interval during titration tests on the result of the test. (For example, Red Sea Mg test will have a high result if you go too quick)

So would it be beneficial to use a metronome (musician by trade here) to help keep to a consistent speed for accuracy? What would that bpm (beats per minute) need to be per Red Sea?

You can also use the Timer feature of a smart phone

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

I use a timer for the 15 seconds between drops of A, and the one minute for B. I was wondering about the interval of drops for the titration of step C.

 

[JDowns]

Well, straight from Red Sea themselves.

"The 15 and 60 seconds mixing time is not to properly mix the ingredients but rather allow the chemical reactions to take place, in this case, the precipitation of the calcium in the sample. More efficient mixing will not reduce the necessary reaction times to ensure an accurate test result."

So, I'd glean from this that it's fine to use a magnetic stirrer to complete the tests, however you'll still want to follow the prescribed mixing and wait times.

I wonder if @Randy Holmes-Farley might know how the Magnesium titration test works? (Since Red Sea mentions that the mixing time relates to the precipitation of the calcium. My guess is that allows the magnesium levels to register in a color change from the final reagent?)

Now ask them (without consulting legal) why you can get the same results either waiting 15 seconds between drops or just one after the other (say a second apart) with a stirrer you can consistently get the same results?

 

[JDowns]

Continuing with the theme of easier testing, how about an electronic timer that walks you through each step of a test - especially useful for keeping track of drops during the Mg test or for alerting you when that long 9 or 15 minutes wait is completed for the Nitrate or Phosphate test? Here's a rough setup that I put together using an Arduino...

This is the Mg test. Add the first drop of reagent A, then press ENTER. The timer will count down from 15 seconds, beep and prompt you for drop #2, etc.

Great job. This is just a great idea for a phone application for someone like @neptune Systems to incorporate into their platform. Make testing easier and auto update your own platform with results. Or just a phone application.

 

[neoGeorge]

Added some bells and whistles...