Radion G5 Rant. $900?

[BigBossReefer]

The real question should be is anyone else selling the same product with equal or superior performance, features, and quality? Other than Kessil, probably not. I sold my G4 Pros for the A360x’s and I couldn’t be happier. The A360x’s look more natural with a lot of shimmer and no disco ball effect, without the need for a diffuser and they provided better PAR distribution. Both lights are made very well and I’m sure required a ton of R&D and high quality components. If it was easy, there would be a copycat manufacturer selling the same thing for half the price. Sure, there are good lights for half price but they do not offer everything that Ecotech and Kessil do. Innovation and quality costs money and it’s something that I’m willing to support.

 

[Jon Fishman]

Ok. I just stumbled on another thread and it said the G5’s are being advertised as “quieter”

I actually hold my hand directly under the lights every few weeks to make sure my fans still work, since I can’t hear them! And those are G3’s

 

[Braver69]

I personally preferred the Pacific Sun lights when they were still sold here in the USA. Was one unified light bar capable of lighting my 6 foot tank for 1,200 bucks which was far cheaper then the EcoTech was going to be. They are more expensive now https://pacific-sun.eu/shop/lighting/led-lighting/metis-hyperion-r2/

 

[2Wheelsonly]

How many will go out and buy the latest and greatest light believing it's the last piece of better equipment that will be the key they have been searching for to give them the success they have failed to get so far or have been so disappointed when the teal problem lies with them not the equipment.

This is all too real. I was checking the prices on G4 pro's on eBay to pick up some extra for my frag system and see all the photos of people selling theirs showing them installed on their tanks in the auction. They are rushing to sell their old and buy new; then you look at their tank and it's a pile of white rocks and auction reads (only installed for 1 year 2 days, etc). Like, you spend $2k on lights, have 3 corals in your tank (corals that would grow with a flashlight) and you're rushing to get the latest greatest. It's like when you see the sump display, a massive panel with perfect wiring 4 ft tall of controllers, dosers and perfect color coded plumbing all going to a 30G nano cube. These people put all their effort in making their sump so pretty but never seem to actually grow anything and then you see some tank of the month and their fish room looks like a meth lab because they are constantly using it and all their time is focused on the tank itself...sumps are generally dirty. The "clean sump" concept died 3 months into their coral journey.

Some people are just into all the equipment but never seem to muster up any will to buy corals. If you're not growing SPS, you don't need 4 radion G5's for your pile of rocks and 2 clown fish.

Sorry, had to add my rant.

 

[Daniel92481]

^ Now that was a rant. You others need to step it up. Now, time to add a maglight to my setup! Good stuff.

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

I dont get it.. it runs at 220 watts full boar..so where is this LED electric savings? And the heat isnt THAT bad. Most people that argue..the heat!! Have never even ran halides. On small tanks, MH is too much. Anything over say 240 though. Your golden.

I just built my own fixture for my 4x8 600 gallon. Used hoods, used t5, used electronic ballasts. Cost me $720 WITH all new bulbs. 3x 400 watts and 8 T5ho.

So I can bath 32 square feet with 500 par for under a grand but I cant program fancy moonlight effects or change the wavelength to something corals dont like.

Anywho... some reefers show off their gear, some show off their coral.

 

[SyracuseMatt]

I dont get it.. it runs at 220 watts full boar..so where is this LED electric savings? And the heat isnt THAT bad. Most people that argue..the heat!! Have never even ran halides. On small tanks, MH is too much. Anything over say 240 though. Your golden.

I just built my own fixture for my 4x8 600 gallon. Used hoods, used t5, used electronic ballasts. Cost me $720 WITH all new bulbs. 3x 400 watts and 8 T5ho.

So I can bath 32 square feet with 500 par for under a grand but I cant program fancy moonlight effects or change the wavelength to something corals dont like.

Anywho... some reefers show off their gear, some show off their coral.

But, how often and how much for bulb changes, 8 4 foot t5s at 24 bucks a pop, 192, plus 3 400 watt metal halides at 83 bucks a pop and your looking at about 440/year in bulbs if you change them once a year. Still cheaper than running Radions for a bunch of years but, every year, things get closer. Also, if you replaced the 3 metal halides with three Radions, you'd cut the electric for those fixtures by about half. Again, it may be a long time before Radions become the cheaper option but, as the meter spins, the cost difference decreases. Assuming conservatively 12 XR15s at 420 a pop, you'd be at 5 k for lighting, so just about a 10 year 'break even' before accounting for electrical costs (1200 watts for all Radions run at 100%, which is unlikely, versus 1200 watts of metal halide plus 432 watts of t-5 (actually more I assume because of ballast consumption).

There is certainly nothing wrong with a MH/t5 setup, many consider it the 'gold standard' of SPS lighting but, I like my sunrise/sunset and changing color temp over the day (and, my SPS don't seem to mind) with my 3 Radion XR30 G2 pros and 4 5 foot t-5s over my 180 (still some bulb changes I know). My guess, and its only a guess at this point, is I could light my tank with 6 G5 XR15s without t5 supplementation because of the much improved lighting spread on the new fixtures. With an 8 foot tank like yours, I'd start with 8 XR 15s and see how that worked, planning to add 2 to 4 more if I wasn't happy with the lighting spread initially or had shadowing issues as things grew out.

Too each is own. If you don't like Radions, don't buy them. You can certainly have success without them but, you can also have success with them. If you're not an equipment junkie and part of the fun of the hobby for you is achieving great results on a low budget, that's great (it also shows people you don't need a ton of cash to be successful). But, if part of the fun for you is trying 'the latest and greatest', that's cool too (it helps the hobby evolve). I'm happy to have options. Just don't get me started on people who pay 1k+ for a skimmer that works the same as skimmers that are half the cost.......... Happy reefing.

Matt

 

[JCOLE]

I honestly don't "buy" into all the hype with YouTube, marketing, etc because they are all pushing their products. I go with what is the best price and works for what I am trying to achieve which is to grow corals. I have an SPS dominate tank with jebao powerheads and (4) MarsAqua blackbox LEDs controlled by my Apex and everything is growing and looking great. I also know a local reefer with an 11 foot tank with massive Acro colonies and all he uses is blackbox LEDs also.

It is true that everyone has the right to sell and buy at whatever they choose to and I am good with that. However, this will more than likely be bad for the future of our hobby. There will be more lighting manufactures in the future that will compete with Ecotech. Where do you think their price point will be at? They will be similar with Ecotech. Eventually MOST hobbyist won't be able to afford to even grow corals let alone buy them. There will still be hobbyist than can afford them and/or sell their life away to purchase them. The market won't last with only a select few of those hobbyist.

I might be wrong and I pray that I am. However, i will continue to purchase blackbox lights and jebao pumps while I still can.

 

[EMeyer]

I honestly don't "buy" into all the hype with YouTube, marketing, etc because they are all pushing their products. I go with what is the best price and works for what I am trying to achieve which is to grow corals. I have an SPS dominate tank with jebao powerheads and (4) MarsAqua blackbox LEDs controlled by my Apex and everything is growing and looking great. I also know a local reefer with an 11 foot tank with massive Acro colonies and all he uses is blackbox LEDs also.

It is true that everyone has the right to sell and buy at whatever they choose to and I am good with that. However, this will more than likely be bad for the future of our hobby. There will be more lighting manufactures in the future that will compete with Ecotech. Where do you think their price point will be at? They will be similar with Ecotech. Eventually MOST hobbyist won't be able to afford to even grow corals let alone buy them. There will still be hobbyist than can afford them and/or sell their life away to purchase them. The market won't last with only a select few of those hobbyist.

I might be wrong and I pray that I am. However, i will continue to purchase blackbox lights and jebao pumps while I still can.

I wish I could like this more than once. In these discussions of pricing, people often get confused between "can", "should", and "have to". Yes they *can* charge $900, sure, but should they? And what decisions (e.g. regarding overhead) have led them to conclude they have to?

I completely agree with you about the big picture damage caused by overpricing of aquarium gear. It benefits the whole hobby when low-cost options are widely available, and hurts the hobby when they aren't.

 

[siggy]

Guy with Back Boxes that work,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Guy with Gen-5's & pride of ownership or me with nice classic workhorse G4's

 

[Reef AquaCult]

So I run blackboxes on my tank and they grow coral well. I have 6 of those and some accent t-5 lighting...Yesterday I just picked up 2 Radion G4 xr15 for my sump...I spent more money for a sump light than for my main display lol. But my sump doubles as a frag tank. I probably could have added two more blackboxes underneath and have been fine but I decided since the radions were on sale plus the diffuser I would try them out and really see the difference first hadn between my blackboxes and radions. I got a lot of coral selling to make up for this purchase but im hoping by paying just a little bit more I get a more refined product which has been proving by thousands of people .

Would like an update after you’ve had time to test!

 

[Reef AquaCult]

Maybe its just me, but with spreading the LED's out ( no longer in pucks), arent the G5's more like other LEDs fixtures like SB light, Reefbreeder, etc. etc. - or am I missing something?

That was my thought too.

 

[BigRed78]

The black boxes aren’t that bad. They are bulky and look kind of ugly but mine grow coral pretty well. On mine you can change the white and blue intensity. It also has moon lighting you can adjust. It has WiFi and a timer mode. Is it as fancy absolutely not. The app is garbage. But I really don’t get the point of all the fancy features on the lights. You get it where you want it and then never touch it again. That’s my experience Atleast. My corals are happy so so am I. There’s also the fact that I lit my 75 gallon for $200. That saves a lot of money to spend on corals. Also it’s definitely not an intensity thing. If you crank one of the black boxes all the way up you will fry the tank.

 

[RCS82]

But, how often and how much for bulb changes, 8 4 foot t5s at 24 bucks a pop, 192, plus 3 400 watt metal halides at 83 bucks a pop and your looking at about 440/year in bulbs if you change them once a year. Still cheaper than running Radions for a bunch of years but, every year, things get closer. Also, if you replaced the 3 metal halides with three Radions, you'd cut the electric for those fixtures by about half. Again, it may be a long time before Radions become the cheaper option but, as the meter spins, the cost difference decreases. Assuming conservatively 12 XR15s at 420 a pop, you'd be at 5 k for lighting, so just about a 10 year 'break even' before accounting for electrical costs (1200 watts for all Radions run at 100%, which is unlikely, versus 1200 watts of metal halide plus 432 watts of t-5 (actually more I assume because of ballast consumption).

There is certainly nothing wrong with a MH/t5 setup, many consider it the 'gold standard' of SPS lighting but, I like my sunrise/sunset and changing color temp over the day (and, my SPS don't seem to mind) with my 3 Radion XR30 G2 pros and 4 5 foot t-5s over my 180 (still some bulb changes I know). My guess, and its only a guess at this point, is I could light my tank with 6 G5 XR15s without t5 supplementation because of the much improved lighting spread on the new fixtures. With an 8 foot tank like yours, I'd start with 8 XR 15s and see how that worked, planning to add 2 to 4 more if I wasn't happy with the lighting spread initially or had shadowing issues as things grew out.

Too each is own. If you don't like Radions, don't buy them. You can certainly have success without them but, you can also have success with them. If you're not an equipment junkie and part of the fun of the hobby for you is achieving great results on a low budget, that's great (it also shows people you don't need a ton of cash to be successful). But, if part of the fun for you is trying 'the latest and greatest', that's cool too (it helps the hobby evolve). I'm happy to have options. Just don't get me started on people who pay 1k+ for a skimmer that works the same as skimmers that are half the cost.......... Happy reefing.

Matt

You didn't just say that you would replace 3 400w M/Hs with 3 Radions did you? Maybe double the number Radions to be fair no?

 

[John08007]

I came back to this hobby after 15 years and im more shocked at the price of coral frags. Hundreds of dollars for a 1in or 1/2 inc coral. Thats insane

This is because of supply/demand. The supply was cut off from I think indonesia years ago.

 

[Spike-Man]

Is it really that high of a price, people pay 1000.00 or more for the new iPhone and I know people who buy the new iPhone every year when they come out with The latest and greatest.

Some have good experiences with a manufacturer and continue to purchase the newest light. People turn their hobby into a business and write off the experience of the lights.

Simply stated, yes the price is to high. I personally run T5's, but many in the hobby that use LED only run the lighting at a fraction of the total output. IMO the buyer is paying for capacity in the unit that will likely never be used. But lighting is not the only problem in this hobby. I have been in the hobby for 30 years. Sometimes I am shocked how long I have stayed in it. I worry about the cost of entrance to the hobby and the misleading needs to keep a reef tank.

 

[mtfish]

This is all too real. I was checking the prices on G4 pro's on eBay to pick up some extra for my frag system and see all the photos of people selling theirs showing them installed on their tanks in the auction. They are rushing to sell their old and buy new; then you look at their tank and it's a pile of white rocks and auction reads (only installed for 1 year 2 days, etc). Like, you spend $2k on lights, have 3 corals in your tank (corals that would grow with a flashlight) and you're rushing to get the latest greatest. It's like when you see the sump display, a massive panel with perfect wiring 4 ft tall of controllers, dosers and perfect color coded plumbing all going to a 30G nano cube. These people put all their effort in making their sump so pretty but never seem to actually grow anything and then you see some tank of the month and their fish room looks like a meth lab because they are constantly using it and all their time is focused on the tank itself...sumps are generally dirty. The "clean sump" concept died 3 months into their coral journey.

Some people are just into all the equipment but never seem to muster up any will to buy corals. If you're not growing SPS, you don't need 4 radion G5's for your pile of rocks and 2 clown fish.

Sorry, had to add my rant.

I am not jumping into this "discussion" and I do not have a tank of the month tank, but one sentence you wrote made me laugh. When my oldest daughter and her husband came for their first visit to the new house, I was showing off the tank. Got to the fish room and he says "wow, this room looks like a scene from "breaking bad"! I even confuse myself sometimes when I am working in there.

 

[nickkohrn]

This is all too real. I was checking the prices on G4 pro's on eBay to pick up some extra for my frag system and see all the photos of people selling theirs showing them installed on their tanks in the auction. They are rushing to sell their old and buy new; then you look at their tank and it's a pile of white rocks and auction reads (only installed for 1 year 2 days, etc). Like, you spend $2k on lights, have 3 corals in your tank (corals that would grow with a flashlight) and you're rushing to get the latest greatest. It's like when you see the sump display, a massive panel with perfect wiring 4 ft tall of controllers, dosers and perfect color coded plumbing all going to a 30G nano cube. These people put all their effort in making their sump so pretty but never seem to actually grow anything and then you see some tank of the month and their fish room looks like a meth lab because they are constantly using it and all their time is focused on the tank itself...sumps are generally dirty. The "clean sump" concept died 3 months into their coral journey.

Some people are just into all the equipment but never seem to muster up any will to buy corals. If you're not growing SPS, you don't need 4 radion G5's for your pile of rocks and 2 clown fish.

Sorry, had to add my rant.

It reminds me of an Instagram account that I saw yesterday. The owner of the account is young and attractive, so, naturally, she has many followers. In the photos of her system, I saw many zoanthids, mushrooms, and a handful of LPS corals, such as Lobophyllia, but not a single SPS frag. In one of the following photos, she was showing off her new Trident. Now, I don't mind watching people spend their money on things that they want, but I can't help but think how much more successful someone could be if the time and money were spent on items that truly make a difference based on the state of the system. For example, in that case, forego the Trident and set up an automatic water-change system, if space allows for it.

I am a technology enthusiast. I write software for Apple platforms, so I have spent years getting the latest and greatest products from them. I'm absolutely not knocking anyone for enjoying technology and purchasing the latest and greatest. I'm simply trying to illustrate just how much emphasis has been put on that in this hobby. Sometimes it is the latest and greatest products that improve the quality of our systems, but I think that, most of the time, the high-dollar equipment is used as a status symbol or as a means to keep up with other hobbyists. That's why I typically unfollow, unsubscribe, and un-whatever-else hobbyists that are sponsored; I begin to lose trust in them and see them only as a marketing tool for companies.

I don't discount that companies evolve their products, and I am glad! However, I think that this hobby has slowly been turning from one that's about the animals to one that's about the technology.

Sorry for the rant, but I felt left out.

Ok. I just stumbled on another thread and it said the G5’s are being advertised as “quieter”

I actually hold my hand directly under the lights every few weeks to make sure my fans still work, since I can’t hear them! And those are G3’s

I'm absolutely not discounting your experiences, so I apologize if it seems that way, but I could hear the fans on my G3s and G4s (two of each) on my previous system if they were set to anything higher than 80%. I did run them at 100% for eight hours, so the fans were often quite audible to me.

 

[BZOFIQ]

My take: As far as the latest G5 Radions are concerned EcoTech Marine finally figured out that the Chinese black boxes had it right from the beginning as far as LED placement is concerned. It only took 4 rounds of trying.

 

[RCS82]

It reminds me of an Instagram account that I saw yesterday. The owner of the account is young and attractive, so, naturally, she has many followers. In the photos of her system, I saw many zoanthids, mushrooms, and a handful of LPS corals, such as Lobophyllia, but not a single SPS frag. In one of the following photos, she was showing off her new Trident. Now, I don't mind watching people spend their money on things that they want, but I can't help but think how much more successful someone could be if the time and money were spent on items that truly make a difference based on the state of the system. For example, in that case, forego the Trident and set up an automatic water-change system, if space allows for it.

I am a technology enthusiast. I write software for Apple platforms, so I have spent years getting the latest and greatest products from them. I'm absolutely not knocking anyone for enjoying technology and purchasing the latest and greatest. I'm simply trying to illustrate just how much emphasis has been put on that in this hobby. Sometimes it is the latest and greatest products that improve the quality of our systems, but I think that, most of the time, the high-dollar equipment is used as a status symbol or as a means to keep up with other hobbyists. That's why I typically unfollow, unsubscribe, and un-whatever-else hobbyists that are sponsored; I begin to lose trust in them and see them only as a marketing tool for companies.

Sorry for the rant, but I felt left out.


I'm absolutely not discounting your experiences, so I apologize if it seems that way, but I could hear the fans on my G3s and G4s (two of each) on my previous system if they were set to anything higher than 80%. I did run them at 100% for eight hours, so the fans were often quite audible to me.

I see where you're coming from but if someone wants a Trident then that is their choice. Even if the Trident was just an example, we all have our favorite things in the hobby. Some people love their lights, some love their controllers, others its sumps and refugiums. We all have our favorite aspects in the hobby I think.