Randy's Tank and Learn Thread

[rishma]

Back in the day we used warm white of around 4300k then later white of around 6000k. Later when I used warm white I added actinic a 160w 03 5' tube

my first SPS tank was 6500k 400w Ushio HQI. I thought if it as “crisp white” :)

Correction! It was an Iwasaki bulb…not that it matters at all

 

[atoll]

my first SPS tank was 6500k 400w Ushio HQI. I thought if it as “crisp white” :)

Yes we all did. Prior to HQI lamps we had Wotan/Osram Flora Set lights designed for plant growth. They were something like 3000k and 80w, now compared to today's lights they were very yellow looking. You could buy them as a ceiling mount or as a wall mount.
That was about 45 years ago.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Heating and Cooling Control

I detailed the cooling system itself in a different post

Randy's Tank and Learn Thread

And of course everything we read is true.....so that's one amazing pump, lol.

www.reef2reef.com

For heaters, I've selected Finnex titanium heaters. Thank you to those who have recommended them. For now, I've ordered one 500 watt and one 800 watt. They arrive today. Heating is a significant need much of the year since the basement where much of the system is stays pretty cool year round. I do not know if these will be enough in winter, but I'll wait and see, ordering more as needed. Outside temps can get below zero F here on occasions.

The 800 watt may be seasonal, being removed in summer and any shoulder season where it's not needed. Not having it in place just removes a possible failure point. A bonus of the Finnex heaters is that they act as a grounding probe for water they are in contact with, helping ensure that if a device leaks actual current, it will trip a GFCI (more on that setup later as I plan to use many GFCI) rather than waiting for me to reach into to the sump to complete the circuit in bare feet on the basement floor.

Control of both heating and cooling will fall to a multiple inkbird plan. I've gotten what I think are very good prices for these on sale lately with coupons, and I'm awaiting getting a couple more when the price is right.

The inkbird 308 wifi can control both heaters and cooling, and tells me the temp over wifi for remote monitoring. I've already connected both to the app and they report just fine, although setup was, as is often the case with these sorts of things, somewhat frustrating. I actually came back to one this morning to try again, and found it somehow finished connecting on its own despite telling me it failed to pair. lol

I got them for about $35 each. Cooling control will use two of these for extra protection. While there are some details about the gap between cooling on and cooling off that I'll need to work out in practice, I expect I will set that to the minimum (1 deg F) with no cooling delay since the solenoid has no issue turning on and off rapidly.

In summary, one will be set to, say, a setting of 79 deg F, and cool (open the cooling solenoid) only if the tank water gets above that point. The solenoid will be plugged into the cooling outlet on that inkbird

That inkbird will be directly plugged into the cooling outlet of a second, identical inkbird. That second inkbird will only power the cooling outlet if the temperature is above its setpoint of, say, 75 deg F. It is the backup shut off if the first cooling inkbird fails to control properly somehow. It doesn't help a failed off, but it will prevent a failed on, which is the much bigger concern in my opinion.

In this fashion, the cooling solenoid will only get power if both inkbirds think cooling is needed. In a perfect world, the second one will always power the first one, and the first one will do all of on off control.

I just ordered a third inkbird 308, but not the wif fi version since it was on sale for only $24. I'd prefer more temp monitoring over wi fi, but I already have at least 2 (the two wifi 308 inkbirds), and maybe more depending on what other devices I get.

This third inkbird will be used for a heating control, in a fashion similar to the cooling control. I'll need another one or two inkbirds for heating control (one cannot control both the 500w and 800 w Finnex due to current draw), but what exactly I get will depend on Amazon sales in the future. One inkbird will be the failsafe shut off and the second one plugged into it will be the primary on off controller.

One very important aspect that I want to mention. I think it is very important that the temperature measurement for the control be in the same chamber as the actual heating or cooling device. If the return pump stops for any reason (except a power failure), and the sensor is in a different sump chamber, the temp controls may continually think more heating or cooling is needed, potentially driving the temps way up or down in that chamber. It's a drawback of a titanium heater without its own temp sensor, and a drawback of my cooling system, but if the two active sensors are in the same chamber, the issue is largely eliminated.

Any comments or concerns about this setup are appreciated. :)

 

[Miami Reef]

which is much less blue than most use, but also has uv.

Why is having UV important? What nm range do you consider UV?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Why is having UV important? What nm range do you consider UV?

Good question. I don't consider it important for keeping a reef. I'm talking about the range of, say, 380-450 nm. That includes what folks call UV A, or violet or deep blue. But I want it for a few reasons:

1. To drive any possible fluorescence that others usually see. I recognize that it may be harder to see by eye in a white light tank than a blue tank. For example, if a coral or anemone fluoresces orange in a blue tank, it stands out. If a coral fluoresces orange in a tank with plenty of orange light, it may not stand out as much. This effect is not limited to corals. Intertidal anemones are exposed to massive UV doses in direct sun, and they also contain fluorescence pigments.

2. I think we do not have a complete understanding of everything that happens when marine organisms are exposed to UV, and I'm allowing for what basically is the equivalent of suntanning in a person causing visible changes in marine creatures. The link below shows an intertidal anemone showing fluorescense, and it is suggested it is done for protection (not enhancing photosynthesis).

3. If my goal is to provide an environment as close to what they get in nature as possible, then UV would be part of that

In my previous tank, many corals did not display the same color as they did in a friends tank they just came out of. I'm trying to minimize the possibility of that being an issue.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/these-mesmerizing-anemones-have-a-glowing-layer-of-protection-180984820/

https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2317017121

"Anthozoans, such as corals and sea anemones, have the largest diversity of FPs (3, 15, 16), with roles linked to photobiology, such as the regulation of algal endosymbiosis (17, 18) and protection against ultraviolet light radiation (12), or to physiology, such as antioxidant activity (13)."

 

[Faurek]

and turn down the red bump.

That red bump will saturate red macroalgae and red chromoproteins on other stuff, so the livestock looks more solid red, it's a good look.

 

[Faurek]

Good question. I don't consider it important for keeping a reef. I'm talking about the range of, say, 380-450 nm. That includes what folks call UV A, or violet or deep blue. But I want it for a few reasons:

1. To drive any possible fluorescence that others usually see. I recognize that it may be harder to see by eye in a white light tank than a blue tank. For example, if a coral or anemone fluoresces orange in a blue tank, it stands out. If a coral fluoresces orange in a tank with plenty of orange light, it may not stand out as much. This effect is not limited to corals. Intertidal anemones are exposed to massive UV doses in direct sun, and they also contain fluorescence pigments.

2. I think we do not have a complete understanding of everything that happens when marine organisms are exposed to UV, and I'm allowing for what basically is the equivalent of suntanning in a person causing visible changes in marine creatures. The link below shows an intertidal anemone showing fluorescense, and it is suggested it is done for protection (not enhancing photosynthesis).

3. If my goal is to provide an environment as close to what they get in nature as possible, then UV would be part of that

In my previous tank, many corals did not display the same color as they did in a friends tank they just came out of. I'm trying to minimize the possibility of that being an issue.

I think about the addition of UV as long term investment for color. Look at this thread:

Effect of UV-A Spectrum on Acropora Growth and Coloration

Effect of UV-A Spectrum on Acropora Growth and Coloration Hypothesis: UV-A supplementation can increase the growth in acropora sp. UV-A supplementation can initate or increase the production of fluoroproteins in acropora sp. Methodology : Preparation : Two fresh frags from a single acropora...

www.reef2reef.com

Look at the other corals around the one he is trying to show, all got better color.
With so much white the corals will look more washed in terms of fluorescence, and will never look like in other tanks, but more white can bring out more detail in my experience, which sometimes it's more interesting then more fluorescence.
With 3 fresh and 1 glow you will mostly have washed fluorescence, but with the right corals you can have something even better, look at pictures of "deepwater" acros fully colored and the detail, changes of colors and shades are amazing. One reason I like Capnella and Nephteas as well.

 

[twentyleagues]

I think about the addition of UV as long term investment for color. Look at this thread:

Effect of UV-A Spectrum on Acropora Growth and Coloration

Effect of UV-A Spectrum on Acropora Growth and Coloration Hypothesis: UV-A supplementation can increase the growth in acropora sp. UV-A supplementation can initate or increase the production of fluoroproteins in acropora sp. Methodology : Preparation : Two fresh frags from a single acropora...

www.reef2reef.com

Look at the other corals around the one he is trying to show, all got better color.
With so much white the corals will look more washed in terms of fluorescence, and will never look like in other tanks, but more white can bring out more detail in my experience, which sometimes it's more interesting then more fluorescence.
With 3 fresh and 1 glow you will mostly have washed fluorescence, but with the right corals you can have something even better, look at pictures of "deepwater" acros fully colored and the detail, changes of colors and shades are amazing. One reason I like Capnella and Nephteas as well.

I was excited to see this experiment but it never got off the ground. Only real pic is from a coral in his tank that could or could not have been influenced by uv add. Could have been par related or other parameter. Too bad the experiment was never really started or finished.

 

[Faurek]

I was excited to see this experiment but it never got off the ground. Only real pic is from a coral in his tank that could or could not have been influenced by uv add. Could have been par related or other parameter. Too bad the experiment was never really started or finished.

I am adding UV this weekend to my nano, I think it's easier in a nano anyway.
I do believe it is both, UV that also added par.
I want to go wider with the UV, so I am adding 365nm and 380-400nm with somewhat slow acclimation.

 

[Tcook]

I ran a much whiter spectrum for the first setup of my 120RR 20 years ago and really liked it. Was a combination of metal halide and VHO. I have been slowly moving my current tank to that whiter look. Here is it 20 years ago

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I ran a much whiter spectrum for the first setup of my 120RR 20 years ago and really liked it. Was a combination of metal halide and VHO. I have been slowly moving my current tank to that whiter look. Here is it 20 years ago

Yes, that’s the look!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Aquarium Background

My tank is up against a wall in the back and one side.

At least in the back, I didn’t want to see the wall through it until coralline and other stuff obscured the view.

I bought a photographers black cloth backdrop from Amazon for less than $10. Is has a sewn slot at the top and I inserted an old wood dowel through it.

I intended to make a holder to hold up both ends, but one side is so tight between the return pipe and the tank that it just holds in place.

The other side has my hokey holder. It’s easier to show a picture than to describe it, but it works perfectly hooked over the tank back. Now the tank has a nice black background. :)

 

[rtparty]

Heating and Cooling Control

I detailed the cooling system itself in a different post

Randy's Tank and Learn Thread

And of course everything we read is true.....so that's one amazing pump, lol.

www.reef2reef.com

For heaters, I've selected Finnex titanium heaters. Thank you to those who have recommended them. For now, I've ordered one 500 watt and one 800 watt. They arrive today. Heating is a significant need much of the year since the basement where much of the system is stays pretty cool year round. I do not know if these will be enough in winter, but I'll wait and see, ordering more as needed. Outside temps can get below zero F here on occasions.

The 800 watt may be seasonal, being removed in summer and any shoulder season where it's not needed. Not having it in place just removes a possible failure point. A bonus of the Finnex heaters is that they act as a grounding probe for water they are in contact with, helping ensure that if a device leaks actual current, it will trip a GFCI (more on that setup later as I plan to use many GFCI) rather than waiting for me to reach into to the sump to complete the circuit in bare feet on the basement floor.

Control of both heating and cooling will fall to a multiple inkbird plan. I've gotten what I think are very good prices for these on sale lately with coupons, and I'm awaiting getting a couple more when the price is right.

The inkbird 308 wifi can control both heaters and cooling, and tells me the temp over wifi for remote monitoring. I've already connected both to the app and they report just fine, although setup was, as is often the case with these sorts of things, somewhat frustrating. I actually came back to one this morning to try again, and found it somehow finished connecting on its own despite telling me it failed to pair. lol

I got them for about $35 each. Cooling control will use two of these for extra protection. While there are some details about the gap between cooling on and cooling off that I'll need to work out in practice, I expect I will set that to the minimum (1 deg F) with no cooling delay since the solenoid has no issue turning on and off rapidly.

In summary, one will be set to, say, a setting of 79 deg F, and cool (open the cooling solenoid) only if the tank water gets above that point. The solenoid will be plugged into the cooling outlet on that inkbird

That inkbird will be directly plugged into the cooling outlet of a second, identical inkbird. That second inkbird will only power the cooling outlet if the temperature is above its setpoint of, say, 75 deg F. It is the backup shut off if the first cooling inkbird fails to control properly somehow. It doesn't help a failed off, but it will prevent a failed on, which is the much bigger concern in my opinion.

In this fashion, the cooling solenoid will only get power if both inkbirds think cooling is needed. In a perfect world, the second one will always power the first one, and the first one will do all of on off control.

I just ordered a third inkbird 308, but not the wif fi version since it was on sale for only $24. I'd prefer more temp monitoring over wi fi, but I already have at least 2 (the two wifi 308 inkbirds), and maybe more depending on what other devices I get.

This third inkbird will be used for a heating control, in a fashion similar to the cooling control. I'll need another one or two inkbirds for heating control (one cannot control both the 500w and 800 w Finnex due to current draw), but what exactly I get will depend on Amazon sales in the future. One inkbird will be the failsafe shut off and the second one plugged into it will be the primary on off controller.

One very important aspect that I want to mention. I think it is very important that the temperature measurement for the control be in the same chamber as the actual heating or cooling device. If the return pump stops for any reason (except a power failure), and the sensor is in a different sump chamber, the temp controls may continually think more heating or cooling is needed, potentially driving the temps way up or down in that chamber. It's a drawback of a titanium heater without its own temp sensor, and a drawback of my cooling system, but if the two active sensors are in the same chamber, the issue is largely eliminated.

Any comments or concerns about this setup are appreciated. :)

Stay extremely vigilant with the Inkbird stuff. They drift horribly and I have found they are either super reliable or not reliable at all and it is like a 50/50 chance.

I am firmly in the buy once, cry once category for a heater controller. It is very likely the number one cause of all tank crashes. The Aqua Logic controller is the best on the market but it is expensive. It is an industrial RANCO controller with a titanium probe for our use.

I am not sure who carries them right now. BRS dropped them for some stupid reason

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Base Live Rock and Sand from TBS

Air cargo to Boston is confirmed for Monday, so that's the big day!

Assuming nothing unforeseen happens before then, that will be Official Tank Day #1.

I better have extra coffee that morning, since the first shipment is 9 x 50 pound boxes. I hope I can pull up to a dock.

Boxes are 17" tall x 14" deep & wide.

Will they all fit in a Tesla Model Y?

The back cargo area can fit 2 across and maybe 3 rows (very close, 1/2" to spare).

The back seat can fit 3 across

Passenger seat can fit 1, possibly 2.

Looks good to go, but then again, unexpected things happen. lol

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Stay extremely vigilant with the Inkbird stuff. They drift horribly and I have found they are either super reliable or not reliable at all and it is like a 50/50 chance.

I am firmly in the buy once, cry once category for a heater controller. It is very likely the number one cause of all tank crashes. The Aqua Logic controller is the best on the market but it is expensive. It is an industrial RANCO controller with a titanium probe for our use.

I am not sure who carries them right now. BRS dropped them for some stupid reason

Thanks. If they are too much trouble in operation, I'll opt for better choices. The Dynasense I used last time is just way too expensive now (>$1,000).

The two inkbirds that I have running now disagree by half a degree, but the temp has been stable for a week in just the refugium.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks. If they are too much trouble in operation, I'll opt for better choices. The Dynasense I used last time is just way too expensive now (>$1,000).

The two inkbirds that I have running now disagree by half a degree, but the temp has been stable for a week in just the refugium.

FWIW, I also got two other aquarium temp devices (cheap hobby things) to independently confirm the temps. :)

 

[rtparty]

Thanks. If they are too much trouble in operation, I'll opt for better choices. The Dynasense I used last time is just way too expensive now (>$1,000).

The two inkbirds that I have running now disagree by half a degree, but the temp has been stable for a week in just the refugium.

The Aqua Logic controllers are like $220 last time I checked. When BRS discontinued them they dropped the price to like $160 so I got an extra

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The Aqua Logic controllers are like $220 last time I checked. When BRS discontinued them they dropped the price to like $160 so I got an extra

Thanks, I’ll keep those in mind!

 

[redseaenroute]

Good to know. I had seen many good reports on Tunze skimmers before picking it.

I’ll discuss the skimmer more later since I have not yet turned it on, but after an extensive discussion with Roger (Tunze) I went with the AC version.

The reason was the AC pump (including power supply and control of the DC version) may last longer, and if I could carefully have it in 6” of water, there would be no significant need for the ability of the dc version to control the flow. I’ll detail how I have the skimmer in 6” of water in a Brute can that has more than 2’ of water, but I can control the depth easily. Thus, I picked to go with AC. :)

My 9410 AC has been an absolute tank. It ran non-stop on my last tank for 6 years with very minimal maintenance (cleaned pump twice I think). I got out of the hobby and put it into storage for a few years. It's running on my current tank now. I told myself I'm not going to buy a new Reef Octo Elite until the Tunze dies. It's been running for a year and a half on my latest tank with zero cleaning. I'm actively trying to kill it to justify the DC reef octopus. My ONLY complaint is that it's a little loud. But aside from that, it's an amazing skimmer.

 

[rishma]

The RANCO (same as aqua logic) dual stage temperature controller I purchased around 1999 is still controlling the temperature in my friends tank. I think it’s my oldest piece of equipment still in use (though not technically mine anymore).