Randy's Tank and Learn Thread

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This might seem silly, but how do you decide when do you decide to pull algae out of your fuge, vs adjusting the lighting, vs just feeding more? Feeding assorted frozen foods three times a day and still getting a 0/0 reading on nitrates and phosphates with my hannah checkers. Still dialing things in before I go crazy on corals, but just trying to get a sense of how to find that balance.

That is a very good question, and the answer likely varies person to person. I'd be wary of dinos with 0/0 and would feed more, use less light, or dose.

Here's my thought process.

1. I'm frequently away, and the majority of my export of ulva and gracilaria (mostly ulva) from my refugium gets moved to the display the day before I leave. I rubber band it to some rocks to sink it, and the yellow tang and one spot foxface eat it over a week or more. It's a great way to vacation feed them without too much dead macro polluting the tank.

2. Phosphate is at the upper limit of where I want it, so I otherwise want the refugium to grow as much as possible. I let it grow until it seems to be crowding itself, then I harvest some and toss it in the trash. How much goes out this way depends on how frequently I'm away.

3. Nitrate drops if I do not add some sort of N, and so to keep the macroalgae taking up phosphate, I dose ammonium bicarbonate, and sometimes iron and manganese..

 

[machmachmach]

AWC Calibration

Frequent readers may recall my salinity continually drifts down. Not I know why.

I calibrated the flow in and out from my two BRS 50 mL per min pumps that were in the same timer.

I ran it for 28 minutes and collected the output from each.

Added water: 1413 g ~ 1377 mL = 49.2 mL/min

Removed water: 1651 g ~ 1609 mL = 57.5 mL/min

My choices are use them on the same timer and use 57.5/49.2 x 35 ppt = 41 ppt for the new salt water

Or put them in different timers with less time for the outgoing water.

Neither is foolproof, but I’m leaning to higher salinity new salt water. Less risk of a serious issue from one stopping for some reason. Drawback is potential calcium carbonate precipitation in the 41 ppt.

I ran into the same issue with a dual head Stenner pump (although with a smaller imbalance), and I realized adding more water than you’re removing is actually pretty stable.

The way you have it now replaces the difference with RODI from ATO which decreases salinity indefinitely, but switching the heads will replace (higher salinity) tank water with your normal AWC water and the whole system will stabilize at a higher salinity over time depending on the imbalance %.

 

[twentyleagues]

I ran into the same issue with a dual head Stenner pump (although with a smaller imbalance), and I realized adding more water than you’re removing is actually pretty stable.

The way you have it now replaces the difference with RODI from ATO which decreases salinity indefinitely, but switching the heads will replace (higher salinity) tank water with your normal AWC water and the whole system will stabilize at a higher salinity over time depending on the imbalance %.

I was kind of wondering the same thing. If you just swap the dosers would it create an over fill situation with such a small amount daily? Seems like it would not and evap/ato would take care of the issues. May see a slight drift up in sg after a long time?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I was kind of wondering the same thing. If you just swap the dosers would it create an over fill situation with such a small amount daily? Seems like it would not and evap/ato would take care of the issues. May see a slight drift up in sg after a long time?

I have head room of at least 25-30 gallons before overflow, and I have sometimes set my awc to just add when salinity is low. That works fine. No big issue with overflow since evaporation also takes the water back down again.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I ran into the same issue with a dual head Stenner pump (although with a smaller imbalance), and I realized adding more water than you’re removing is actually pretty stable.

The way you have it now replaces the difference with RODI from ATO which decreases salinity indefinitely, but switching the heads will replace (higher salinity) tank water with your normal AWC water and the whole system will stabilize at a higher salinity over time depending on the imbalance %.

I think I will try going with the elevated salinity in the reservoir using the same timer and existing dosing rates, and as you say, that avoids any chance of rising water levels. :)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Very short full tank video

 

[bureau13]

Electrical Safety

I installed the seven new grounding probes today. Display, ATO, AWC, and the four sump compartments. I also made sure no cord connections are on or near the floor of the basement fish room.

Everything is on a GFCI (several different units) and the only thing that won’t cut out if a GFCI trips are the two low
Voltage (12 v max) dc powerheads (Tunze stream eco 6105) which have the built in ability to switch to my 12 v battery if power goes out.

Seven! Here I was thinking I needed to have two, display and sump. I never thought of the different sump compartments or the ATO needing their own probes. Is that really necessary?

 

[rishma]

Update on grounding probe installation? (This is my polite way of nagging)

 

[twentyleagues]

Seven! Here I was thinking I needed to have two, display and sump. I never thought of the different sump compartments or the ATO needing their own probes. Is that really necessary?

If your sump is 1 thing separated by baffles than all you need is one in the tank and one in the sump. If your sump is like Randys where its multiple containers than 1 per container would be best.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Update on grounding probe installation? (This is my polite way of nagging)

I mentioned Sunday that I installed them. :)

There was always the possibility that a GFCI would trip when doing so from an already faulty device, but thankfully no issue. The biggest risks are the old powerheads I use in some of the sump sections to keep some flow, get good contact with the macroalgae, and not allow stagnation at the bottom.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Seven! Here I was thinking I needed to have two, display and sump. I never thought of the different sump compartments or the ATO needing their own probes. Is that really necessary?

As twenty mentioned, my sump has 4 Brute cans, each overflowing into the next. An overflow is not necessarily a perfect contact, and if the return pump stops, the overflows stop and grounding is lost.

There is one in the display, one in each brute can of the sump system, one in my new salt water reservoir (2 x 44 gallon brute cans plumbed together at the bottom) and one in my ATO (3 x 44 gallon Brute cans plumbed together at the bottom).

I am certain the new salt water reservoir needs a grounding probe, though the only device currently in it is a dc pump. But I have numerous AC devices sitting on the lids (pH meter, conductivity meter) and if they fell in, that could be an issue.

I am not certain that an RO/DI reservoir needs a ground probe since I'm not sure if i could be shocked through very low conductivity water, but just playing it safe. It also has a DC pump, but again, plenty of devices resting on the lids that I could knock into the water.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Fish Discussion

Three azure damsels and a female mandarin are coming from Dr Reef on Nov 20. Not sure who is looking forward to it more, me, or the current male mandarin.

There has long been the mantra that green chromis will pester each other until only one remains. A counter argument is that uronema slowly kills them off. In my last tank I experienced such issues with LFS green chromis twice.

My current three green chromis were quarantined and treated by Dr Reef before I got them. While I do not know whether it is strong evidence of the cause one way or the other, the three chromis I have had for more than 5 months are doing perfectly fine and really do not seem to pester each other either. They are all more scared of a person in front of the tank than each other. In any case, i am very happy with them.

Speaking of being afraid, the fish I currently have (3 green chromis, yellow tank and one spot foxface) seem much more afraid of people than I recall in the past. Anytime I come up to the tank, they scatter into the rocks. The foxface often also turns grey/black with presumed fear. If I add food, they come out tentatively then excitedly go after it, but will not much much appearance if I do not. FWIW, I'm not counting the mandarin or the clowns in this assessment. The mandarin seems to mostly ignore me, and the three ocellaris clowns are too busy rushing around their anemone to really see a difference. :)

One thing that may contribute is that about half the time, and for a week or more at a time, there is no one peering into the tank, so they may not be as comfortable as if I was there several times a day, every day. I do find it interesting and perhaps not unusual that after being gone for a while, and then cleaning the glass which has significant growth, the foxface and yellow tang get quite concerned with their own "new" reflections for a couple of days. lol

Not sure what will happen with the added azure damsels, but perhaps all the fish will focus more internal to the tank as fish numbers rise.

 

[Reefer1978]

Fish Discussion

Three azure damsels and a female mandarin are coming from Dr Reef on Nov 20. Not sure who is looking forward to it more, me, or the current male mandarin.

There has long been the mantra that green chromis will pester each other until only one remains. A counter argument is that uronema slowly kills them off. In my last tank I experienced such issues with LFS green chromis twice.

My current three green chromis were quarantined and treated by Dr Reef before I got them. While I do not know whether it is strong evidence of the cause one way or the other, the three chromis I have had for more than 5 months are doing perfectly fine and really do not seem to pester each other either. They are all more scared of a person in front of the tank than each other. In any case, i am very happy with them.

Speaking of being afraid, the fish I currently have (3 green chromis, yellow tank and one spot foxface) seem much more afraid of people than I recall in the past. Anytime I come up to the tank, they scatter into the rocks. The foxface often also turns grey/black with presumed fear. If I add food, they come out tentatively then excitedly go after it, but will not much much appearance if I do not. FWIW, I'm not counting the mandarin or the clowns in this assessment. The mandarin seems to mostly ignore me, and the three ocellaris clowns are too busy rushing around their anemone to really see a difference. :)

One thing that may contribute is that about half the time, and for a week or more at a time, there is no one peering into the tank, so they may not be as comfortable as if I was there several times a day, every day. I do find it interesting and perhaps not unusual that after being gone for a while, and then cleaning the glass which has significant growth, the foxface and yellow tang get quite concerned with their own "new" reflections for a couple of days. lol

Not sure what will happen with the added azure damsels, but perhaps all the fish will focus more internal to the tank as fish numbers rise.

I was just going to say to spend more time in front of the tank!!! Seems they are simply not used to you, and think a giant predator is approaching.

 

[rishma]

Did you use auto feeders in the old tank? If not, they could be part of the difference. I find they in tanks that are fed manually they associate people with food and are less timid.

 

[JayM]

AWC Calibration

Frequent readers may recall my salinity continually drifts down. Not I know why.

I calibrated the flow in and out from my two BRS 50 mL per min pumps that were in the same timer.

I ran it for 28 minutes and collected the output from each.

Added water: 1413 g ~ 1377 mL = 49.2 mL/min

Removed water: 1651 g ~ 1609 mL = 57.5 mL/min

My choices are use them on the same timer and use 57.5/49.2 x 35 ppt = 41 ppt for the new salt water

Or put them in different timers with less time for the outgoing water.

Neither is foolproof, but I’m leaning to higher salinity new salt water. Less risk of a serious issue from one stopping for some reason. Drawback is potential calcium carbonate precipitation in the 41 ppt.

For what it's worth, I purchased and installed two of these from Amazon back in July and use them on a single timer for daily 1.5 gallon (maybe 1 gallon. I forget) AWC on a 100 gallon system. I have not had to adjust salinity at all. Not yet anyway.

 

[bureau13]

Did you use auto feeders in the old tank? If not, they could be part of the difference. I find they in tanks that are fed manually they associate people with food and are less timid.

I definitely think that's the case with me. I have an auto feeder during the day but generally feed them myself after work, and when I approach the tank they act like they're expecting food. Occasionally I will startle someone into darting into the rocks, but that's not the default response.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

For what it's worth, I purchased and installed two of these from Amazon back in July and use them on a single timer for daily 1.5 gallon (maybe 1 gallon. I forget) AWC on a 100 gallon system. I have not had to adjust salinity at all. Not yet anyway.

Thanks. :)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I definitely think that's the case with me. I have an auto feeder during the day but generally feed them myself after work, and when I approach the tank they act like they're expecting food. Occasionally I will startle someone into darting into the rocks, but that's not the default response.

Maybe Thanksgiving events will numb them to people around. lol

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Did you use auto feeders in the old tank? If not, they could be part of the difference. I find they in tanks that are fed manually they associate people with food and are less timid.

That's a good point. I think I only used them when actually away, which was also not as often then. I had a yellow clown goby that would only eat frozen foods, so that's what I manually fed most of the time.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Nitrate and Iodine

Nitrate continues to drop slowly. Currently 4.4 ppm by Hannah HR. I upped the ammonium bicarbonate dosing by about 10%, and added 5 ppm nitrate via sodium nitrate. Might be the phyto helps bring it down, or just the macroalgae. In any case, not a big deal.

I also added 0.06 ppm iodide as sodium iodide. I’m not convinced it is useful, but I’m continuing adding it for a while, then I will stop and see if anything changes.