Rant... I hate the direction the hobby has gone

[Reefer Matt]

the influencer effect , it can be good and bad depending on how you look at it lol

Dang YouTubers!

 

[dvgyfresh]

Dang YouTubers!

I support it lol to be clear , I’d rather watch a video than read a book I’m sure most are the same nowadays

 

[Reefer Matt]

I support it lol to be clear , I’d rather watch a video than read a book I’m sure most are the same nowadays

I was just being facetious, lol. I’m sorta familiar with the stigma of making videos. Lots of assumptions get made about intentions.

 

[Subsea]

Curious if you could list some?


Overall I think the hobby is fine, somethings are better from example: I had the first Neptune Aquacontroller in 2000 and it worked, however the new Apex I got last year is a huge improvement. Berghia N. destroyed my aiptasia problem, 10 years ago not sure I remember hearing about them?

I still use Julian Sprung books and some others and the information is still perfectly relevant and outstanding.

We have the same books!

OP,
I stumbled onto a more recent book that was published in April 2021: Reefkeeping Fundamentals by Angel Cegarra @Beuchat
Are you out there?

As a marine engineer and a BOP control systems engineer this paragraph captured me.

“In this environment, there is a gigantic network of nutrient transfer and recycling, which has been consolidated over millions of years and functions with an efficiency superior to the most elaborate human engineering. All functions are performed by different species and none is dispensable; the absense of some provide opportunities for others. The waste products of some are food for others and nothing is wasted. It is a dynamic system with numerous elements of redundancy, which has allowed reefs to survive the five mass extinctions that have occurred on Earth. This complex network underpins the robustness and stability of coral reefs”.

Martin Moe, pHd marine biologist and author said about Reef Keeping in the late 1960’s at a MACNA conference:
“It’s not rocket science, it’s more complicated.” And he nailed it.

@dontbuyxenia

Let’s park here:

“I am not aware of any QUALITY books that have been released in the past 5 years(please let me know that I am wrong, I really hope that I am). Most recs I have seen for books still recommend books that are over 10 years old. We have way better technology, it would be nice if someone credible could discuss how to use it.“

Old books are relevant if you are interested in the science. Better technology sounds like marketing to me. John Tullock said it best, “Less Technology /
More Biology

PS: Incidentally, I like Xenia and I also agree generally with the thread title.

 

[BeanAnimal]

“Most recs I have seen for books still recommend books that are over 10 years old. We have way better technology, it would be nice if someone credible could discuss how to use it.“

Better technology sounds like marketing to me. John Tullock said it best, “Less Technology /
More Biology

Yep… science hasn’t changed or really even expanded that much in context to home reef keeping.

 

[stE25wy14]

Books are dead in every industry. They aren’t going to magically come back for this one.

THIS could be further from the truth
books are my(and many others) #1 resource for high powered rocketry, as of chess and I am sure many other industries too

 

[stE25wy14]

Idk what YouTubers you are watching but the main reefing YouTubers are amazing!!
the reef dork, Danny's aquariums, tsa, that one other Florida one, others

I fully get and understand what u mean, and u are fully correct! reefing is sadly one of those hobbies that YouTubers think they can just jump into and give advice :(

 

[BeanAnimal]

How many photography books do you own Stewy?

 

[areefer01]

Idk what YouTubers you are watching but the main reefing YouTubers are amazing!!
the reef dork, Danny's aquariums, tsa, that one other Florida one, others

I do not want to over generalize here but most of the content on social media is an infomercial. If it isn't then it is entertainment. I mean today I saw S-Tier(?) saltwater corals ranking in a feed - sorry, I can't take that serious.

Maybe it comes down to a generation X over Z and our individual longevity in the hobby and display maturity. I agree we all start at day one but the path we traveled is vastly different.

And no, this isn't we walked to school in a blizzard sort of thing but our learning path was different. In my opinion that is what separates the X and Z generations.

 

[TheNative192]

The more people in the hobby equals more money available which leads to more investment in new equipment designs, more collectors growing and trading corals, and also lots of cheap second hand stuff for me to buy and use in my own tanks!

But in all seriousness, this seems more like a rant about how society has become more digital and trendy. It’s ironic we are posting this online on a forum too as without a digital push R2R may have not become what it is today.

The trendiness definitely comes with some negatives but the reality is the crazy coral names and the trendy YouTubers bring new people into the hobby. So as much as you do not like them, they are vital for companies to spend $$$ on inventing new gadgets and pushing the hobby forward.

 

[Macropharyngodon]

What happened to the reefing hobby is simply capitalism IMO. When profit is the number one goal and big corporations move in, we get what we have today. Look at who owns Exotech, Aquaillumination, BRS and others. It’s all the same big corporation

Dont get me started on capitalism... lol

 

[Fishy888]

I despise the trend I see on here where “build threads” are comprised of nothing more than a series of “updates” that are insta posts. There is no chance I am going to wade through a half dozen 20 minute videos you have attached to see what you are dosing, your light regimen, or livestock. Especially when none of the videos are particularly topical or focused - they are just meandering prattle about your tank.

Say what you will about the RC toxicity, but those threads were much more likely to contain observational science and experiences documented somewhat coherently. And the writeups let the search function… work. These video posts? No shot of being able to find anything you might actually interested in.

I am all for accessibility of information and the hobby in general, but the low effort involved in more and more posts I see - not great. Literally nothing about this hobby is easy and even worse I suspect the social media links are more about mediocre attempts at monetization.

I actually have a YouTube channel myself. I’m nowhere near being monetized and honestly I’m not that worried about monetization, especially with what I have heard happens to monetized channels.

My goal is honestly to help other reefers. I haven’t posted anything in a while but that’s about to change soon.

There are others on here with YouTube channels too. One of them happens to be someone I look up to. He’s got the same goals as I do, and his videos are quality all the way around. I hope to be as good as he is eventually.

My point is that there are some YouTubers out there who genuinely want to help other reefers excel more than they want to be monetized.

 

[jellyfish123]

I am new to the hobby. Only one year in and it has been very difficult for me because of varying information from all these youtubers and the shop staff itself.

As a beginner in this hobby with limited budget, I cannot afford a lot of mistakes or equipment for that matter. There is very little swapping or trading in this hobby and I have seen the shops price corals at astronomical prices and then do "SALES" almost every month. I have met a few hobbyists and they are very different from freshwater people I have noticed. The ones I have met at least are only interested in the high end marketing named corals and they try to sell a tiny little frag again for crazy prices. They have very expensive setups and they love bragging about how much money they have lost on corals and how many expensive rare ones have died. Weird thing to brag I feel.

I got dragged into the whole marketing thing a bit and had a LPS tank for awhile. Recently a crash happened and I started keeping leather corals only with one anemone. I have found out that happiness is not when you have all the rare corals but its when you have to do very little and have actual time to enjoy tank instead of panicking over every parameter shift.

 

[albano]

Recently a crash happened and I started keeping leather corals only with one anemone. I have found out that happiness is not when you have all the rare corals but it’s when you have to do very little and have actual time to enjoy tank instead of panicking over every parameter shift.

Amen!

 

[stE25wy14]

I do not want to over generalize here but most of the content on social media is an infomercial. If it isn't then it is entertainment. I mean today I saw S-Tier(?) saltwater corals ranking in a feed - sorry, I can't take that serious.

Maybe it comes down to a generation X over Z and our individual longevity in the hobby and display maturity. I agree we all start at day one but the path we traveled is vastly different.

And no, this isn't we walked to school in a blizzard sort of thing but our learning path was different. In my opinion that is what separates the X and Z generations.

idk where u saw that but thats funny how stupid that is XD
im talking about literal long form videos about/on the hobby. videos like that are just, well, stupid

 

[stE25wy14]

How many photography books do you own Stewy?

over 10
maybe even close to 20

 

[Reefer Matt]

idk where u saw that but thats funny how stupid that is XD
im talking about literal long form videos about/on the hobby. videos like that are just, well, stupid

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I am not trying to be overly negative or elitist. And I certainly could be wrong about some things. But I honestly hate the direction this industry/hobby has gone in the past 6-8 years. I have been in the hobby for over 15 years and I feel like things have degraded considerably...

1. Quality of information. This is by far my biggest complaint! I am so sick and tired of bs fish influencers that come on YouTube and think they know ball. The content is mostly slop and has very little value. I am sure there are good YouTubers, but when i got into this hobby, the best source was a good book. Especially if you are just starting out. I am not aware of any QUALITY books that have been released in the past 5 years(please let me know that I am wrong, I really hope that I am). Most recs I have seen for books still recommend books that are over 10 years old. We have way better technology, it would be nice if someone credible could discuss how to use it.

2. Availability of livestock. We all know the Hawaii closure was a massive blow to the hobby. Other closures like Indo torches, or Fiji liverock have been significant as well but the lack of diversity seems to be increasing. What bothers me though, is that there seems to be a huge lack of cohesion in this industry to fight legislation. In the reptile world, this is a huge part of the hobby and it has faired(mostly) positive. Organizations like PIJAC have luckily done a lot but the average aquarium owner seems to be blissfully unaware or unbothered by possible legal issues. Talk to the bird people about the Wild Bird Conservation Act and see how well things worked out for them. Better yet, read about the proposed Saving Nemo Act...

3. The decline in worthwhile events. Ever since MACNA's dissolution, there have been only a couple remaining events. MACNA was so special since it was the yearly "state of the hobby" if you will. We got to see new product releases, crazy imports, and meet influential figures in the industry. There was also an education component where scientists presented research and we got to hear seminars from credible people. Now, events are numerous and decentralized to extract as much money from the vendors and attendees as possible. Aquashella, is targeted to beginner hobbyists and gives their speaking engagements to Aquarium Influencers that have really no value besides their name recognition(sorry not sorry). That isn't to say that these events don't have a place in the community, I think its good there is a beginner friendly conference people can go to and learn more about the hobby. But an event that is catered towards advanced hobbyists is desperately needed.

4. Named corals, defective products, and general shadiness. Those of us who have been around long enough remember when a coral was the name of its species. Naming a coral some stupid name then selling a quarter inch frag for 80 bucks is ridiculous. I understand why vendors do it. If I had a shop I'd do it too. But it is frustrating nonetheless. Companies like Red Sea that charge astronomical amounts of money for tanks that are known to leak(go find the dozens of threads including mine talking about it) and then seemingly do nothing to resolve the problem is incredibly discouraging. Look at the LiveAquaria debacle. That company use to be the face of the industry. If you wanted online fish that were gonna get there healthy, that was the place. But after corporate buyouts, the company withered away rife with scandals. I am tired of overpriced crap that breaks. I am tired of livestock that arrives half-dead. I am tired of lies and deceit from companies that I have spent THOUSANDS with.


I just had to vent. I hope that our industry shapes up before its too late. I am a young guy in my 20s. I worry greatly about where the hobby will be in 10-20 years if it is around at all. Hopefully we can make things better and begin to actually fix some of the issues that this industry has...

I can speak to the book issue: there are no longer ANY publishers creating books for the aquarium hobby. All four publishers in the US that I’ve used for my books are out of business (TFH still prints their magazine, but no books). Microcosm, Bow tie and Barrons have all ceased operations. I’ve heard various reasons for this, but the most likely is competition from free resources on the Internet.

All that’s out there now are self-published, poorly edited “vanity books”.

I have a completed 200 page aquarium disease book that’s sitting in my computer due to lack of any publishers (sigh).

 

[tripdad]

Maybe R2R could publish it? Avenue for growth....?

 

[Gumbies R Us]

THIS could be further from the truth
books are my(and many others) #1 resource for high powered rocketry, as of chess and I am sure many other industries too

I think it really just depends on the individual and the hobby. Do I think books are the #1 resource? No, not anymore. Some people prefer going online and seeing blog posts about their hobby, a step-by-step guide on wikiHow, or watching a video on how to do something.

I'll bring up Rock climbing as that is the hobby I know a lot about. We still produce books in that hobby. Technique books, guide books on what routes to do at a mountain or boulder spot, and general climbing books (history, biography etc..) However, we also have lots of online resources. Online guidebooks, apps that show you exactly where routes are located on mountains, apps that give you workout routines and ways to condition, YouTube videos on how to improve technique, and preventing injury. You get the point. Do I own any climbing books, even though I have invested loads of time into the hobby? No. Do I feel like I am pretty knowledgeable about the hobby and know what they are doing? I would think so.

I say all of this to say that I don't think books are irrelevant. I just think culture has shifted towards online resources over books. If you prefer books? Good for you. If you prefer online resources? Good for you. In the grand scheme of things It doesn't matter what medium we choose to learn about our hobbies.