Ratios for Dosing Copper Power

Discussion in 'Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis' started by HotRocks, Apr 30, 2018.

  1. Starblenny

    Starblenny Active Member

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    So, I just want to double check my Copper Power concentration if I do a water change:

    If my 5 gallon QT tank with a concentration of 1.75ppm of CP and I do a 2 gallon water change, do I add 1.5ml of CP in the 2 gallon of fresh SW in order to stay above the minimum therapeutic level? Here's my calc below:

    2gal (1.75ppm/3gal) = 1.166666667ppm

    And if known concentration of CP is 0.15ml/gal = 0.25ppm ----> 0.15ml/gal * 5 gallon = .75ml for 0.25ppm concentration increase.
    0.75ml*2 = 1.5ml
     

  2. HotRocks

    HotRocks Fish Fanatic! Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    I am assuming you are referring to CP as copper power? Generally people use CP for chloroquine phosphate.

    I can't make sense of that math.

    If you remove 2 gallons of water from the tank. Mix up 2 new gallons of saltwater and dose it with 2.08ml of copper power. Add back to tank and the level will remain at 1.75ppm.

    1.04ml per gallon = 1.75ppm
     
  3. Starblenny

    Starblenny Active Member

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    D'oh. CP = copper power. I forgot CP also means chloroquine phosphate; it didn't really occur to me since I'm treating a wrasse and chloroquine phosphate was the last thing on my mind.

    And thanks HotRocks! I was waaaaaaayyy over thinking it; I was trying to remember my time in chem class about dilutions and lowering concentrations if I add freshly mixed water to the tank with copper power etc etc etc.

    I should've re-read the first post a few more times.
     
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  4. DBLA

    DBLA Member

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    Awesome post! Perfect timing for me. In honesty, with the reproducibility of this data one should be able to start treatment and save reagent until the last day or two (keeping same volume and copper power bottle, which may even be unnecessary). That way confirming therapeutic dose but not wasting reagent or time during “ramp up”. Additionally with the large buffer up to 2.5ppm allows a big margin of error safely, short of bad math or inadvertent overdosing.
     
  5. Reefahholic

    Reefahholic Reef Junkie T.V. R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor

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    5 gallon tank
    5gal x 1.475ml = 7.37ml
    2.5ppm / 7.37ml = 0.33ppm per ml dosed
    1.75ppm / 0.33ppm = (5.30ml total dose)

    10 gallon tank
    10gal x 1.475ml = 14.75ml
    2.5ppm / 14.75ml = 0.16ppm per ml dosed
    1.75ppm / 0.16ppm = (10.93ml total dose)

    15 gallon tank
    15gal x 1.475ml = 22.12ml
    2.5ppm / 22.12ml = 0.11ppm per ml dosed
    1.75ppm / 0.11ppm = (15.90ml total dose)

    20 gallon tank
    20gal x 1.475ml = 29.5ml
    2.5ppm / 29.5ml = 0.08ppm per ml dosed
    1.75ppm / 0.08ppm = (21.87ml total dose)
     
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  6. ReefWithCare

    ReefWithCare Valuable Member

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    Is this correct? I thought for 1.75PPM it would 1.04 per gallon. So using the 10 gallon tank example this would be 10 * 1.04 = 10.40 ml not 10.93 ml right?
     
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  7. HotRocks

    HotRocks Fish Fanatic! Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    It's correct. The math is exact doing the long formula.

    The 1.04 ml per gallon is just a reference without going out 15 decimals!
     
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  8. Jon Malkerson

    Jon Malkerson Active Member

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    image.jpg Just made some new saltwater using RODI with 0 TDS. I used a Hana checker for copper and got 0.06 reading is that safe for my reef tank?
     
  9. ramabama

    ramabama Member

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    Couple of questions:
    1. Does evaporation remove copper? Guessing no. If not then top of water needs to be just water??
    2. Is it safe to have pre-mixed saltwater with copper at matching therapeutic level sitting in a five gallon bucket for extended period of time? If so how long?
    Reason for question 2 is in case for any reason a water change is needed and my wife has to do it and I am not around.
     
  10. Jon Malkerson

    Jon Malkerson Active Member

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    Copper won't evaporate. I've heard copper is only effective for 30 days mixed with water. I've been running a QT for a few months now and I use poly filter and cuprisorb every 30 days to remove copper and start over.
     
  11. HotRocks

    HotRocks Fish Fanatic! Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    The tolerance of the tester is +/-.05

    It's possible your level is still zero or darn close to it. I wouldn't worry about.
    Copper does not evaporate. So topping off with fresh RO is fine.

    It is safe to premix and dose the water with copper to store for a water change, copper stays stable in water for a very long time. Just make sure she doesn't use it for your DT :eek:

    Also I don't know how long you'd be storing it, but I would mark the fill line once it's been dosed with copper so if there is evaporation she can top it back off to the proper level before adding to a tank so the Cu level is consistent.
     
  12. lakai

    lakai Active Member

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    Is it ok to start them out at the 1.75ppm dosage before they go in the QT or is it generally a good idea to ramp from 1ppm ?
     
  13. gammarho55

    gammarho55 Member Build Thread Contributor

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    So, got a quick question... Is are there any benefit to being as close to the 2.0 reading than the 1.5? I know the therapeutic levels for copper power are between 1.5 and 2.0, but when I checked my levels this morning (after just receiving my new hanna checker) saw that I have been running at 1.68 for the last month. I have a pair of clowns and a tomini tang in a 29g QT, and dosed the tank according to the math in the first post. I saw spots on the tang right away when I put them in QT, so I dosed and have been checking with an API test kit up to this point.
    Thanks for any help you all may be able to provide.
     
  14. HotRocks

    HotRocks Fish Fanatic! Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    Probably slight absorption. I treat at or slightly above 1.75ppm. 1.68 should be high enough.
     
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  15. KJoFan

    KJoFan Valuable Member Partner Member 2019 Build Thread Contributor

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    Similar question. I was aiming for around 1.0 ppm in my QT (one wrasse in there already) and ended up at 1.46 according to Hanna. I have two more fish (wrasses) going in there today. Should I knock back the levels or go as is?

    Current wrasse has not been affected in the least with the sudden ramp from 0 to 1.46...
     
  16. KJoFan

    KJoFan Valuable Member Partner Member 2019 Build Thread Contributor

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    It should be noted the current wrasse has been in QT two weeks already so plenty of time to settle. Current wrasse is Yellowtail Tamarin.

    Incoming wrasses are Redtail Tamarin and Potter's Leopard wrasse. I can do a water change to reduce/remove the copper before the new fish arrive, but if they'll be fine with current conditions I will leave as is.
     
  17. HotRocks

    HotRocks Fish Fanatic! Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    They should be fine. I have acclimated several fish into 1.75ppm copper. Including blue spot tamarin, red tail, lineatus, potters wrasse.
     
  18. KJoFan

    KJoFan Valuable Member Partner Member 2019 Build Thread Contributor

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    Excellent. I was trying to compensate a bit for the sandbed and rock in QT and apparently overshot my goal. I may retest just to make sure it wasn't a testing error.

    I know it's not the best idea to mix different acquisitions into the same QT, which is why I wanted to start with some copper just to maybe help ward off anything new coming in. But, I wanted to QT them all together since they're all kind of difficult to get feeding. So far the yellowtail is taking to frozen bloodworms with more gusto every day and hopefully will teach the others. :)
     
  19. HotRocks

    HotRocks Fish Fanatic! Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    You might want some live blackworms on hand for the tam and the leopard. They usually do the trick to get them started. Although I've had several eat frozen right out of the shipping bag.
     
  20. KJoFan

    KJoFan Valuable Member Partner Member 2019 Build Thread Contributor

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    I haven’t had success sourcing any live blackworms unfortunately. I am going to hatch some live bbs though just to see if they entice. Though I tried some with the yellowtail tam and it seemed indifferent to them. Frozen bloodworms have so far been successful.
     
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