Ratios for Dosing Copper Power

Discussion in 'Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis' started by HotRocks, Apr 30, 2018.

  1. Wildreefs

    Wildreefs Active Member

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    Just curios, but if copper was added after fish in, and allowed time for cysts to form ring there was no shield to stop that, how come the run time is 30 days and not 76?
     
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  2. ScooterV

    ScooterV Well-Known Member R2R Supporter Partner Member 2019 Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    From the Copper section of treatment options:
    "Indeed, even 30 days may not be sufficient in some rare cases. This is why it is so important to observe after treatment ends, to ensure symptoms do not return."

    I like the transfer to a sterile QT myself.
     
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  3. Diesel48

    Diesel48 Member Build Thread Contributor

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    So I have been doing my first QT ever with a couple of Bangaii Cardinals. I am finding that the ratio of Copper Power in the beginning of this thread is not lining up with either my tester or Copper Power. When using the sticky my PPM using the Hana checker is always low. I am using syringes to add the copper power, I am using a 4 qt measuring container to measure water. For example, I did my 25% water change today. I have 16 gallons in my 20L breeder so I changed out 4 gallons of water. Using the Ratios I would need to dose 4.13ML of copper power to the 4 gallons of water to get 1.75PPM of copper. When I did this my hanna checker read 1.48 PPM. I needed to add roughly .86ml more copper power to bring my reading to 1.78ppm. So what am I doing wrong? Also does copper power lose its potency in the tank or does it stay stable? I have a couple of PVC elbows, a power head, a hang on back filter with a sponge for bacteria. Thank for all of the work you have done with this!
     
  4. HotRocks

    HotRocks Fish Fanatic! Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    It could be that the potency of your bottle varies a bit. I haven't found that to be the case personally. It could be some absorption in your mixing container or depending on what kind of sponge material you use. I do typically experience some absorption during the ramp up period.
     
  5. Diesel48

    Diesel48 Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Hmm.. Not sure, I just mixed it in a old Tropic Marin Pro salt bucket. Do you think that would absorb it? Also the sponge in my QT tank is just a standard aqua clear sponge. Shouldn't have any special properties to it. I guess I just need to test a bit more to make sure it stay above 1.5ppm.
     
  6. Shannon Harlan

    Shannon Harlan Active Member

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    Will live rock absorb and effect levels if copper. I just want keep my bio filter going and hiding spot for fish. I dont care if they cant go in dt
     
  7. Biglurr54

    Biglurr54 Well-Known Member

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    Here's a cheat sheet for everyone who doesn't like math. Permission to use on the first post.

    Here is the dose per gallon for different concentrations:
    1.0ppm = 0.59 ml/gallon
    1.25ppm = 0.7375 ml/gallon
    1.50ppm = 0.885 ml/gallon
    1.75ppm = 1.0325 ml/gallon
    2.00ppm = 1.18ml/gallon
    2.25ppm = 1.3275ml/gallon
    2.50ppm = 1.475ml/gallon (as confirmed on the bottle)

    Now look at the chart, select the concentration you desire, multiply the ml/gallon x actual gallons in QT and presto!

    Ex.
    I have a 10 gallon qt and I am looking to start at 1.00ppm.
    I take 10gallonQT x 0.59ml/gallon = 5.9ml to be dosed to reach 1.0ppm in the 10 gallon qt.

    Now I ramp up the qt to 1.75ppm over a few days and I need to do a 4 gallon water change (Stupid Ammonia!) 4gallons x 1.0325ml/gallon = 4.13ml of copper power in the new salt water to keep the tank at 1.75ml.

    Much simpler. You can keep the chart in your medicine cabinet with the copper power or write it on a sticky note and stick it to the copper power bottle! If you look at the above example, you can see you can estimate the math relatively closely with out a calculator.

    Happy QTing!
     
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  8. Brien

    Brien Active Member

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    I wanted to follow-up and see if I'm on the right post-treatment plan. I'm running a fish only system, display tank is what was treated.

    I did 30-days of Copper Power with an end reading of 1.79 ppm.

    Did three 40% water changes over three days and ran carbon for a week and I'm now at .35 ppm.

    Is it critical to lower the copper more right now or can I just lower it over time during my normal water change schedule (once every 3-4 weeks)? Secondly, I want to get a CUC back in there. Is .35 ppm low enough for inverts and snails?
     
  9. HotRocks

    HotRocks Fish Fanatic! Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    You are on the right track. Yes.

    I can't answer what level of copper inverts will tolerate. I can tell you I wouldn't be comfortable putting inverts into the system until you register .05ppm or less.
     
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  10. TK_KW

    TK_KW Wait WHAT!! Its HOW MUCH!!!!! R2R Supporter Reef Tank 365 Catskill Reef Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Morning @HotRocks,

    What is the best way to remove last traces of copper from your system after quarantining. Im assuming full vinegar wash, Full water change, etc. But what about anything left in system possibly missed during cleaning. Thanks in advance.
     
  11. HotRocks

    HotRocks Fish Fanatic! Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    A good wash and rinse should be suitable. You can also run carbon or cuprisorb to remove any trace amounts. If the tank will be re-used as a QT then I wouldn't even worry about it.
     
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  12. ReefWithCare

    ReefWithCare Valuable Member

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    Hi All,

    Quick question. How do ya'll transfer your fish into the DT. I got the impression that some of you change water to get down to 1.0 PPM for your next QT batch so the water of the transfer of the fish will have copper in it. Even if you net them, water in the net will have copper. Are there concerns for copper poisoning of your inverts netting your QT'ed fish and moving them over?
     
  13. HotRocks

    HotRocks Fish Fanatic! Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    I never transfer fish directly from copper to DT. I keep them in a med free tank for a couple weeks post treatment to observe and make sure they are clear.

    If you are transferring them into DT directly from a copper tank which I would advise against doing then you could simply dip the fish into a bucket of newly mixed SW between the QT and DT. This would rinse off any copper. Even though I'd imagine a drop or two wouldn't be enough to hurt anything.
     
  14. ReefWithCare

    ReefWithCare Valuable Member

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    Ya getting down to near 0 PPM if you are using one QT is pretty much impossible - reason why I asked. In my case - I only use one QT
     
  15. HotRocks

    HotRocks Fish Fanatic! Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    I see. Yes no worries there. As mentioned above you could "rinse" them in some fresh saltwater.

    The concentration being so low in the QT and then a few drops hitting DT would likely not be enough to cause any type of an issue. I do however ALWAYS error to the side of caution as this hobby is very unforgiving.
     
  16. ReefWithCare

    ReefWithCare Valuable Member

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    Thanks. Can I put them in a 1 gallon bucket of my DT water? I'm pretty confident my DT is free of stuff as everything was QT'ed. I have drip transferred fish over - but felt it was a overkill since both the QT and DT match temp and salinity wise.
     
  17. HotRocks

    HotRocks Fish Fanatic! Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    Yes that works and then toss the gallon when done.

    No need to acclimate if temp and salinity match.
     
  18. Jason Roth

    Jason Roth Member

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    I can’t seem to find the info and know I’ve read it before. When treating with copper I know we aren’t supposed to add certain other things to the water or it becomes toxic. I thought it was prime and cupramine but can’t seem to find it.

    I am treating some clowns with cupramine since hats all that I could get quick. And when feeding this morning added some selcon. After the fact I got worried but thought selcon was ok for the vitamins and immune system.

    I’ve looked in a few threads and much have read over it. I know the info was here somewhere. Help?

    Additionally, when you are ready to transfer to an observation tank and DT, how are you doing it to minimize copper getting into those tanks? If you net the fish, no doubt the net will have copper on it, however minimal. Even if you net and then turn the net over above the tank you will get some drops from the net. I assume that minimal amount would not be detectable?

    Once net touches QT with copper that net is labeled and only used for that tank with copper. Same with any other equipment/buckets, etc.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  19. HotRocks

    HotRocks Fish Fanatic! Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Build Thread Contributor

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    That is correct, you do not want to mix cupramine and prime. Prime is not safe with any type of copper. It does increase the toxicity of copper.

    As far as worrying about a few drops of copper when transferring the fish from copper tank to a clean tank that is not any concern. It's such a minute amount that it won't be a problem.
     
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  20. Daniel225

    Daniel225 Member

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    I have a question.

    I just moved my leonardi wrasses and clowns from my copper qt tank to DT.

    I did a 50 percent water change and filled the rest with saltwater.
    I added nitrofurazone to my qt.
    My question is the copper power might be around 1 ish, I think.
    With the nitro in the water will be hanna checker work with the yellow tinted in the water?
     
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