recent ICP - lacking tons of elements

[IPT]

Here is my recent ICP test. I seem to be lacking a host of minor and some major elements. Mixed reef that I feed Pellets 2x a day (every day) and mysis and brine (5x per week). I do 10% WC's weekly with instant ocean and have been adding 5-10Ml's of Tropic Marin A and K for about 4 months.

Should I dose these products independently ala Moosnshiners or will increasing A and K dosing suffice?

Also, whats the difference between Phosphates and Phosphorus (are they intimately linked where I address one the other will correct)? I'm not sure why mine is so high as my test kits didn't reflect this (though I have been having some algae issues and this probably explains why.

 

[JonoH]

Phosphate and Phosphorus is the same, just a different unit of measurement - those with ULN systems tend to use Phosphorus - personally i dont think its that high, but ICP's tend to have their baseline measurements off an ULN system (ultra low nutrient).

Apart from your calcium, the rest seem to be fairly standard elements that are low - may just need to increase the amount of trace you are dosing - depends on the coral uptake of these.
Generally you dose to correct the low, then increase the overall trace to compensate for it moving forward.

 

[EnterName]

Phosphorus is the element P and phosphate is the molecule of one P and four oxygen written as PO4.

You can approximate phosphate levels from phosphorus by multiplying the measurement of P by 3.066, as phosphate is approx. 3.066 times heavier than phosphorus. (This assumes all phosphorus in the sample is bound to phosphate).

ICP-OES isn't as precise as ICP-MS so many elements can't be measured down to their natural seawater levels and are simply noted as "Not detectable" but still "Normal" without recommendations about adding them. You need an ICP-MS analysis to actually know if you have a deficiency of these elements, but at least you can be sure you don't have too high levels.

 

[rtparty]

How are you supplementing alk, calcium, and magnesium? The only trace value that is low seems to be molybdenum which seems to be common with IO these days

 

[IPT]

Phosphate and Phosphorus is the same, just a different unit of measurement - those with ULN systems tend to use Phosphorus - personally i dont think its that high, but ICP's tend to have their baseline measurements off an ULN system (ultra low nutrient).

Apart from your calcium, the rest seem to be fairly standard elements that are low - may just need to increase the amount of trace you are dosing - depends on the coral uptake of these.
Generally you dose to correct the low, then increase the overall trace to compensate for it moving forward.

The only direct trace I dose is the Tropic Marin A and K. I guess I need to increase the dose and maybe supplement something else in addition.

 

[IPT]

How are you supplementing alk, calcium, and magnesium? The only trace value that is low seems to be molybdenum which seems to be common with IO these days

Yeah, I was low on the last test 6 months ago as well. In parts it's why I started the Tropic Marin A and K, but it didn't seem to bring it up much if at all.

I dose saturated Kalk (2800ml a day) plus A and B from the BRS dry goods. I use Magnesium flake for the MG, but I need to be more regular about that. It's only good because it was WAY low (like 900) and I overdosed it (up to like 1600) and it's falling now.

 

[IPT]

Phosphorus is the element P and phosphate is the molecule of one P and four oxygen written as PO4.

You can approximate phosphate levels from phosphorus by multiplying the measurement of P by 3.066, as phosphate is approx. 3.066 times heavier than phosphorus. (This assumes all phosphorus in the sample is bound to phosphate).

ICP-OES isn't as precise as ICP-MS so many elements can't be measured down to their natural seawater levels and are simply noted as "Not detectable" but still "Normal" without recommendations about adding them. You need an ICP-MS analysis to actually know if you have a deficiency of these elements, but at least you can be sure you don't have too high levels.

Yeah, I guess I should do one of the more precise ICPs. Who is the preferred lab for the MS test with good prices and quality?

 

[EnterName]

Phosphorus is the element P and phosphate is the molecule of one P and four oxygen written as PO4.

You can approximate phosphate levels from phosphorus by multiplying the measurement of P by 3.066, as phosphate is approx. 3.066 times heavier than phosphorus. (This assumes all phosphorus in the sample is bound to phosphate).

ICP-OES isn't as precise as ICP-MS so many elements can't be measured down to their natural seawater levels and are simply noted as "Not detectable" but still "Normal" without recommendations about adding them. You need an ICP-MS analysis to actually know if you have a deficiency of these elements, but at least you can be sure you don't have too high levels.

Yeah, I guess I should do one of the more precise ICPs. Who is the preferred lab for the MS test with good prices and quality?

I personally use ATI and Oceamo, but if you want timely results, you might want to choose a laboratory that doesn't require shipping a sample to Europe. I'm from Germany so I don't know what options are available to you over there.

 

[Bruttall]

You Know ICP has a subscription Trace Element Program, they send you a test every month and for a small fee, they send you ALL TRACE ELEMENTS NEEDED, but it is a 1 yr subscription.
For my 340 gallon system, cost is like $109 a month, the test alone is $50, so $59 for a Months worth of Trace, I spend that on All4Reef alone.

Master Your Trace Elements Subscription

Stop Guessing. Start Growing! One test. Two bottles. It's that easy! Your monthly path to precision. We combine laboratory testing with a personalized blend of core trace elements—so you can skip the guesswork and enjoy a thriving tank.

www.tritonreef-shop.com

 

[EnterName]

You Know ICP has a subscription Trace Element Program, they send you a test every month and for a small fee, they send you ALL TRACE ELEMENTS NEEDED, but it is a 1 yr subscription.
For my 340 gallon system, cost is like $109 a month, the test alone is $50, so $59 for a Months worth of Trace, I spend that on All4Reef alone.

Master Your Trace Elements Subscription

Stop Guessing. Start Growing! One test. Two bottles. It's that easy! Your monthly path to precision. We combine laboratory testing with a personalized blend of core trace elements—so you can skip the guesswork and enjoy a thriving tank.

www.tritonreef-shop.com

ICP-OES isn't precise enough to detect quite a few essential trace elements at their natural concentration in seawater. You need ICP-MS to do this, which Triton doesn't seem to offer.

Of course you can manage with ICP-OES, but to detect current deficiencies you will need ICP-MS.

 

[jackson6745]

Oes tests are a waste of money. Do the ATI-MS test next time and all those NA values which could potentially be toxic, will have a value.

 

[Hans-Werner]

Iodine is near the ideal concentration, nickel and copper are found. I think there is no urgent need to react. The trace elements contained in the K+ and A- Elements are dosed to reasonable concentrations in reasonable ratios. The rest is more a problem of ICP-OES analysis than of corals needing more trace elements.

Ignore any recommendations for iron and manganese if they are low. Their concentrations are just too unstable and any analysis of these elements is a snapshot at best.