Red Sea Tank Failures...

[Jeeperz]

The bubbles that show up in these pictures seem to indicate Silicone failure from shear stress. The Silicone most tank builders use in Europe is German made and is of a higher quality. The Chinese use there own formula and I suspect it is the root cause for failure. That and improper stand maternal and design all contribute to the failures pictured and reported. I love the look of rimless glass tanks but I would not risk this design for tanks over 60 gallons personally. I have several in storage but I am only placing them in an area with a floor drain and concrete floor after seeing peoples results. Acrylic for my home period.

I have a question for you or @Tenecor Aquariums, if I were to drain my tank and remove livestock, could I reinforce a reefer tank at the bottom panel with say a piece of 1/2" thick glass, like euro brace along the front at the bottom? I could do sides too. I'd have to trim the factory "gusset" of silicone first though. I like my tank and next time I move was thinking that might be a good time to "reinforce" the tank.

Also, what about draining the tank and putting corner gussets at the top but recessed to hold my screen lid instead of those stupid plastic holders. Would that add any increase in strength, maybe a 2x2 triangle corner gussets 1/4" below the top on the corners and overflow?

Just a thought to improve a red Sea

 

[Rovert]

Stumbled across this post and thought I'd share a thought.

I don't own a Red Sea tank (though it was on my list), I bought a CADE instead. I can tell you that the CADE instructions are abundantly clear that all four corners of the tank must be squarely supported by the stand and flush all around with the frame, and they provide adjustable feet to level.

My point is that there might be some merit to the 'overhang' theory if another known manufacturer is so clear on tank positioning.

I hope everyone affected can arrive at a satisfactory outcome, a failure like that, along with the loss of animals, is devastating.

 

[Jeeperz]

Stumbled across this post and thought I'd share a thought.

I don't own a Red Sea tank (though it was on my list), I bought a CADE instead. I can tell you that the CADE instructions are abundantly clear that all four corners of the must be squarely supported by the stand and flush all around with the frame, and they provide adjustable feet to level.

My point is that there might be some merit to the 'overhang' theory if another known manufacturer is so clear on tank positioning.

I hope everyone affected can arrive at a satisfactory outcome, a failure like that, along with the loss of animals, is devastating.

Heck, my reefer 350 tank out of the box didnt even touch the left rear corner of the stand, the bottom wasn't even flat with nothing in it.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

I have a question for you or @Tenecor Aquariums, if I were to drain my tank and remove livestock, could I reinforce a reefer tank at the bottom panel with say a piece of 1/2" thick glass, like euro brace along the front at the bottom? I could do sides too. I'd have to trim the factory "gusset" of silicone first though. I like my tank and next time I move was thinking that might be a good time to "reinforce" the tank.

Also, what about draining the tank and putting corner gussets at the top but recessed to hold my screen lid instead of those stupid plastic holders. Would that add any increase in strength, maybe a 2x2 triangle corner gussets 1/4" below the top on the corners and overflow?

Just a thought to improve a red Sea

I personally have not used a glass tank for over 30 years. The bracing could not hurt but it is the stand design and materials that seem to be the issue on Red Sea. Complete support is how everyone else in Europe and Asia do it. I conversed with a tank manufacturer in Malaysia and his experience was to make sure he had a full, flat, support from the stand without the resilient mat underneath.

 

[Rovert]

Wondering if you RS owners can possible make a 'retrofit' part that will wedge up underneath the top panel and support the perimeter to hedge your bets. It might not be pretty, and it ought not to be necessary, but when you consider the alternative...

 

[Jeeperz]

Wondering if you RS owners can possible make a 'retrofit' part that will wedge up underneath the top panel and support the perimeter to hedge your bets. It might not be pretty, and it ought not to be necessary, but when you consider the alternative...

I think a nice piece of cabinet grade 3/4" oak plywood stained nicely wouldn't look to bad, it'll raise the tank and that lip is only like an inch wide

 

[Tenecor Aquariums]

I have a question for you or @Tenecor Aquariums, if I were to drain my tank and remove livestock, could I reinforce a reefer tank at the bottom panel with say a piece of 1/2" thick glass, like euro brace along the front at the bottom? I could do sides too. I'd have to trim the factory "gusset" of silicone first though. I like my tank and next time I move was thinking that might be a good time to "reinforce" the tank.

Also, what about draining the tank and putting corner gussets at the top but recessed to hold my screen lid instead of those stupid plastic holders. Would that add any increase in strength, maybe a 2x2 triangle corner gussets 1/4" below the top on the corners and overflow?

Just a thought to improve a red Sea

I cannot give advice on this as I don't know enough about these tanks. This is why I like tis forum. Lots of members can answer you based on their real life experiences.

 

[Mark Goode]

There was a discussion on their facebook group about the fixings on the Reefled 160, they're mounted to the arm with a single, tiny screw. I commented that this was idiotic, and probably unsafe.

The next morning the Red Sea group had disappeared from my fb groups and even a search wouldn't find it. I recently had an email from RS with a link to their fb group - when I clicked on it I got 'group not found'.

Strange...

Maybe they don't want me on there?

I've just had an email from Red Sea inviting me to enter their Christmas draw. All I need to do is enter my full name and join their facebook group. This I attempted, only to see a big padlock and the words "not available" on the facebook link. I guess Red Sea still don't love me.

If any Red Sea representatives should read this: guys, I'm going to make it my mission in life to dissuade as many people as possible from buying your over priced, unreliable, badly made, cheaply produced, Chinese tat.

 

[Jeeperz]

I've just had an email from Red Sea inviting me to enter their Christmas draw. All I need to do is enter my full name and join their facebook group. This I attempted, only to see a big padlock and the words "not available" on the facebook link. I guess Red Sea still don't love me.

If any Red Sea representatives should read this: guys, I'm going to make it my mission in life to dissuade as many people as possible from buying your over priced, unreliable, badly made, cheaply produced, Chinese tat.

I will join you but not make it my life mission, I will definitely warn people away from any of their products, especially tanks. I do really like my max nano and reefer 170, but nothing bigger

 

[mcc21]

I have had my 350 G2 for a bit over two weeks now. When I was shopping my LFS warned me against getting a Red Sea for this very issue- at the time I though it was just because they were trying to up sell their new Water Box inventory.

I did my research, went and saw the tank, and still went with Red Sea and so far I’m happy I did. There is a boat load of silicone on the inseam corners of the tank. The glass is thikk! The over hang is purely aesthetic to give it a floating look, which I like- definitely no support for that front pane of glass though…

So far I’m happy- lets hope it stays that way!!!

Hi! i have question regarding the G2 stand. would you be able to tell me or measure for me the distance from the back of the stand to the hinge? I know from research that the back to front of inside the stand is 18 inches, but I can't find any information regarding the back of the stand to the hinge is (i have attached a random internet pic for reference). Thank you!

 

[Janet Belanger]

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Sorry for a bit if ignorance, but where are you getting these numbers? Millions plural with an M?

Three times it’s randomly been brought up in this thread by (possibly) three different people, as if to give an excuse for their customer service somehow?
I’m reading this thread going “there’s that word again…”

Assuming average sale price of 2500, wouldn’t that make their revenue 5 Billion dollars with a B on 2 million tanks sold? Even if you assume they sold the same amount each year, that’s 625 million a year (8 years since g1 released) in just red sea reefer tank sales. And that’s not including sales from salt, test kits, additives, equipment, etc which probably makes much more than their tank sales.

Looking up how much revenue they have gives around 5-8mil revenue per year. (Unsure if completely accurate.)
Around 2 million people worldwide own a saltwater aquarium, 800k in the usa.
Other aquarium industry numbers/statistics: https://www.saltwateraquariumblog.com/aquarium-industry-statistics/

Something isn’t adding up?
Also, thousands of posts regarding issues? That could potentially be a extremely large percentage…

Your math here is missing the fact that cogs offsets revenue, so the margin on these tanks isn't $2500. Its a lot less by the time you factor in freight costs, paying vendors, buying, machining and building the tank parts, etc.

 

[Potatohead]

Your math here is missing the fact that cogs offsets revenue, so the margin on these tanks isn't $2500. It’s a lot less by the time you factor in freight costs, paying vendors, buying, machining and building the tank parts, etc.

They haven’t sold millions of tanks dude, that is absurd. G1’s came out about eight years ago? In the last eight years Ford has sold about 7 million F150’s. You really think there’s a Reefer tank or two out there for every seven F150’s?

I mean even if it’s only one million and they’ve been building them for eight years that means they’re building over 14 tanks (and stands) every single hour of every single day and then selling every one of them. Come on now.

 

[Janet Belanger]

They haven’t sold millions of tanks dude, that is absurd. G1’s came out about eight years ago? In the last eight years Ford has sold about 7 million F150’s. You really think there’s a Reefer tank or two out there for every seven F150’s?

I mean even if it’s only one million and they’ve been building them for eight years that means they’re building over 14 tanks (and stands) every single hour of every single day and then selling every one of them. Come on now.

Lol, not a 'dude' AND I didn't say 'millions of tanks' anywhere in my post. Red sea was 'one of' the first to go mainstream market in the US and thus the point still stands that there are POSSIBLY a lot more on the market thus failures would be more evident in the mainstream market.

Even my LFS mostly have red sea reefer or all in ones set up in their shop, though they sell at least some the other brands.

I'd be seriously curious what the ratio is RSR to others and what the actual failure rate for any of them is. I've now had three RSR, 1st for about 3 years, 2nd for 5 years, and my third is being set up now. The only issues I've had thus far is some failed gaskets on the plumbing (15$ and 5 min fix) and it only leaked directly into the sump.

 

[reefsUP2]

Front pane failure..​

This is a long post but I think it may be helpful in preventing failures

Let's talk about it. I recently purchased a 350 G2. I didn't care to do much research on it since I figured, all tanks with the exception of draining systems, weirs were created equal. After it was delivered I was pretty stoked, but that was short lived. After posting some pics online I was made aware of what seems like a widespread front pane failure (although you only hear about the problems). While I do understand most all RS tanks don’t fail… the possibility of this one failing terrifies me. Tbh, I would NOT have purchased this tank had I known about this potential problem, something this expensive should NOT fail in this manner.

So here lies my question, specifically to RS tank owners and definitely towards those owners whose tank failed.

1. How long have you owned your tank? If it failed, how did it fail and how long after owning it.
2. Was this tank purchased from a retailer, or was it preowned? Did it sit around for a period of time before setting it up and filling it?
3. What in your opinion was the cause of the failure?
4. Did you reach out to RS? Did they provide a probable cause?

I see posts where the cause is said to be user error. Some due to stand not being level, others due to the front pane overhanging excessively.

Here’s my take on this. Tank not being set up level can probably be chalked up as user error although I’d like to understand the dynamics/forces behind the theories. However, the excessive overhang. I’m not convinced that to be user error, at all.. While assembling the stand, I never once saw and instructions on exactly where on the stand the tank should sit. Conventional thinking (and I agree with this), is that the tanks should 100% be supported by the stand. That is not possible with these tanks and stand as they are designed to have some overhang but not known how much. If we know that the failure mode of the pane and silicone degrading is due to a lack of support due to tank placement and there is no caution or anything instructions indicating the criticality and implications of not placing the tank on the correct spot, them RS is 100% to blame, if this is a known cause of the failure.



I’d like to get thoughts and theories on what everyone thinks the root cause of failure is. I don’t think any theory is farfetched, but would like to know what rationale is being used to ascertain such theory? I hope this conversation will yield a conversation that will hopefully prevent or mitigate future failures, especially if it is a preventable one.



Sorry for the long-winded post, but thank you for your input

I hade my 250 open at the bottom front panel luckily it started as a leak so I emptied it asap.

 

[blaxsun]

This. My xxl750 V3 has the center brace between the two doors on the left side. There is a double wall wood brace between the sump cabinet and the electronics cabinet, and in the middle of the sump cabinet the V3 design added the extruded aluminum vertical support. The V3 also added a metal front angle aluminum peice to fully support the front glass instead of having a floating front glass. My 750 has been set up for 7 months and have not had any issues with it.

Almost 2 years for my 750XXL v3. No issues so far (seams or cabinet).

 

[CoralDanimal]

3 years on my RSR 425 XL and no issues so far.

 

[lindylu]

Front pane failure..​

This is a long post but I think it may be helpful in preventing failures

Let's talk about it. I recently purchased a 350 G2. I didn't care to do much research on it since I figured, all tanks with the exception of draining systems, weirs were created equal. After it was delivered I was pretty stoked, but that was short lived. After posting some pics online I was made aware of what seems like a widespread front pane failure (although you only hear about the problems). While I do understand most all RS tanks don’t fail… the possibility of this one failing terrifies me. Tbh, I would NOT have purchased this tank had I known about this potential problem, something this expensive should NOT fail in this manner.

So here lies my question, specifically to RS tank owners and definitely towards those owners whose tank failed.

1. How long have you owned your tank? If it failed, how did it fail and how long after owning it.
2. Was this tank purchased from a retailer, or was it preowned? Did it sit around for a period of time before setting it up and filling it?
3. What in your opinion was the cause of the failure?
4. Did you reach out to RS? Did they provide a probable cause?

I see posts where the cause is said to be user error. Some due to stand not being level, others due to the front pane overhanging excessively.

Here’s my take on this. Tank not being set up level can probably be chalked up as user error although I’d like to understand the dynamics/forces behind the theories. However, the excessive overhang. I’m not convinced that to be user error, at all.. While assembling the stand, I never once saw and instructions on exactly where on the stand the tank should sit. Conventional thinking (and I agree with this), is that the tanks should 100% be supported by the stand. That is not possible with these tanks and stand as they are designed to have some overhang but not known how much. If we know that the failure mode of the pane and silicone degrading is due to a lack of support due to tank placement and there is no caution or anything instructions indicating the criticality and implications of not placing the tank on the correct spot, them RS is 100% to blame, if this is a known cause of the failure.



I’d like to get thoughts and theories on what everyone thinks the root cause of failure is. I don’t think any theory is farfetched, but would like to know what rationale is being used to ascertain such theory? I hope this conversation will yield a conversation that will hopefully prevent or mitigate future failures, especially if it is a preventable one.



Sorry for the long-winded post, but thank you for your input

Hi I'm in UK. I have a XL 425 purchased new in 2018. On 2nd Jan got up to half empty tank. It was the seam leaking. I have owned an aquatic shop since 1989 so not a novice. I have had display tank 5x 3 x3. 8 x 3 x 3 sold hundreds of tanks (not red sea ones.)
I believed I had purchased the best and the system has been brilliant up to this failure. I have never used a scraper just wool and elbow grease as in industry scratched glass means more work. The tank was on a tiled floor which was professionally laid. The silicone had disintegrated it was brittle. Personally I don't believe the silicone used is good enough for a reef Set up as high level of alkalinity and calcium. Red sea ( i have since found out) have offered me the standard offer 33% off a new tank. Terrible I don't want another tank.Red Sea should have told people they have had issues and to monitor seams.





bsolute

 

[piranhaman00]

Hi I'm in UK. I have a XL 425 purchased new in 2018. On 2nd Jan got up to half empty tank. It was the seam leaking. I have owned an aquatic shop since 1989 so not a novice. I have had display tank 5x 3 x3. 8 x 3 x 3 sold hundreds of tanks (not red sea ones.)
I believed I had purchased the best and the system has been brilliant up to this failure. I have never used a scraper just wool and elbow grease as in industry scratched glass means more work. The tank was on a tiled floor which was professionally laid. The silicone had disintegrated it was brittle. Personally I don't believe the silicone used is good enough for a reef Set up as high level of alkalinity and calcium. Red sea ( i have since found out) have offered me the standard offer 33% off a new tank. Terrible I don't want another tank.Red Sea should have told people they have had issues and to monitor seams.





bsolute

I mean all silicone will deteriorate after time but I think the issue is the large rimless tanks have so much more pressure on said silicone but idk

 

[mach1mike]

This is an old post, and I certainly don't have the experience alot of folks here do, but figured I'd throw my two cents in -

I had a red sea reefer 525 xl that was absolutely gorgeous. Tank was up for right at 4 years and sprung a leak, and it was way fortunate I was home when it happened. With mine it was maybe the top 6 inches of the right front corner that leaked. I was standing in front of it and could push on the glass and the leak would stop. As soon as I removed my hand though, yeah, dumping water. For me a ratchet strap around the tank was able to stop it until I could get the livestock out and syphon the rest of the water out. This was after it dumped probably 30-40 gallons on my floor.

Just my story, but as someone else said they've sold a ton, and I'm sure most are fine. I'll never buy another one, however.

 

[Jeeperz]

This is an old post, and I certainly don't have the experience alot of folks here do, but figured I'd throw my two cents in -

I had a red sea reefer 525 xl that was absolutely gorgeous. Tank was up for right at 4 years and sprung a leak, and it was way fortunate I was home when it happened. With mine it was maybe the top 6 inches of the right front corner that leaked. I was standing in front of it and could push on the glass and the leak would stop. As soon as I removed my hand though, yeah, dumping water. For me a ratchet strap around the tank was able to stop it until I could get the livestock out and syphon the rest of the water out. This was after it dumped probably 30-40 gallons on my floor.

Just my story, but as someone else said they've sold a ton, and I'm sure most are fine. I'll never buy another one, however.

Wonder what kinda of damage was done to your subfloor