Reef Moonshiners V All for Reef

[TwelveL16]

Sounds like a sales gimmick…

could be....

 

[TwelveL16]

I’m not by any means suggesting rm leads to poor tanks. I’m certain those great tanks would be just as nice if they simply stopped dosing rubidium. Same for barium.

Have you or ANYONE using RM ever seen evidence of those rubidium claims?

No sir, Im just tellin ya what the site says. If they got me on sales pitch than so be it. Im a sucker, I guess I was just trusting they were steering me in the right direction telling me which elements I needed. That being said, if we dont know its role than we dont know, cant just assume its doing nothing.

 

[wickedxreef]

For sure that will lighten or darken them.. lighting spectrum especially under just blues changes the colors a lot! I’ve cut some frags off my display and placed them in my sump under strictly blue light and after a month it’s totally different than my display but little to no growth lol.. my bill Murray for instance is green with blue tips and hints of red under full spectrum in the display.. a frag of that in my sump for a month is solid aqua blue! It’s really weird..

Reminds me of the old MH days when folks would blast sps with 5-6K, but the corals would grow fast, but colors were blah. Then they would move them to 20K MH and color them up and sell them.

 

[TwelveL16]

from Fauna Marin @Randy Holmes-Farley @Troylee

The effect of rubidium is somewhat controversial. There are virtually no studies of its biological function. It is generally assumed that rubidium is only absorbed into the coral skeleton because its similarity to potassium. Recent studies have shown that rubidium plays a role in the repair of damaged cells. To what extent this also applies to corals, however, is not yet known. In our experiments, however, we could observe a better color shine and harder skeleton formation of corals if the value of rubidium was kept stable.

Good enough for me for 30 bucks.

 

[wickedxreef]

well, I did a water change of 30 gallons, with NYOS and within 30 minutes, my tank was sliming, and corals literally dying as I watched! I did an MS test, and there's things in it, that should not be! the water....then I just sent a sample of the salt to him. it killed 3 grocery bags of coral.

that is terrible. after working so hard to grow these corals and watching them quickly die is never fun. so did you find out if it was salt or the water related? I'm guessing some sort of heavy metals or something in there?

 

[Troylee]

Reminds me of the old MH days when folks would blast sps with 5-6K, but the corals would grow fast, but colors were blah. Then they would move them to 20K MH and color them up and sell them.

It’s the same song and dance today lol.. farms still grow under 6500 halides and then color up under leds.. I always knew that in the old days but we didn’t have leds.. like you said 65k to 20k and that’s what we got! We also didn’t have all these crazy rainbow acros either! These leds and being able to shift spectrums have morphed a lot corals I think personally. Even my strawberry shortcake under halides 6 months ago was bright green and pink. Under these meridians it’s changed to green and purple with pink polyps.. guess I should tag a new name on it and make it mine

Edit: we had vho also! That actinic pop was amazing!

 

[wickedxreef]

It’s the same song and dance today lol.. farms still grow under 6500 halides and then color up under leds.. I always knew that in the old days but we didn’t have leds.. like you said 65k to 20k and that’s what we got! We also didn’t have all these crazy rainbow acros either! These leds and being able to shift spectrums have morphed a lot corals I think personally. Even my strawberry shortcake under halides 6 months ago was bright green and pink. Under these meridians it’s changed to green and purple with pink polyps.. guess I should tag a new name on it and make it mine

Edit: we had vho also! That actinic pop was amazing!

Oh... that MH/VHO were the days... but the heat was insane. I have noticed some farms try to not fully disclose their practices in how they're growing the corals. You're absolutely right though that a coral can go from one variation to another with lighting changes.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

That being said, if we dont know its role than we dont know, cant just assume its doing nothing.

I rely on expert opinions like the Royal Society of Chemistry, which they base on a full understanding of all published studies of chemicals. They state that

Rubidium has no known biological role and is non-toxic. However, because of its chemical similarity to potassium we absorb it from our food, and the average person has stores of about half a gram.

It is slightly radioactive and so has been used to locate brain tumours, as it collects in tumours but not in normal tissue.

https://periodic-table.rsc.org/element/37/rubidium
I know the hobby claims, made by folks selling things like barium and rubidium, but nowhere is there any supporting evidence for these claims.

I for one do not think it very likely that someone dosing chemicals to their home reef tank has discovered an actual biological role for rubidium. If they have, they should surely let the Nobel Prize committee know of this ground breaking discovery.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Good enough for me for 30 bucks.

And I’m sure that’s why they wrote it: you buy it as do others. Then when It does nothing, almost no one asks for a refund.

There’s no established basis in reality.

 

[KStatefan]

well, I did a water change of 30 gallons, with NYOS and within 30 minutes, my tank was sliming, and corals literally dying as I watched! I did an MS test, and there's things in it, that should not be! the water....then I just sent a sample of the salt to him. it killed 3 grocery bags of coral.

What did the ICP find in the salt? There seem to be a number of people here that really like that salt. I have never used it.

 

[TwelveL16]

@Randy Holmes-Farley So let me understand this. Since we do not know its role in corals and we can have a successful reef tank with out it we should not buy it?

How about some of the other trace elements? For example one we do know its role such as iodine. I had an SPS dominated tank back in 2015 that was extremely successful with very good growth. The only thing I ever maintained was alk with Kalk in my ATO. Never did I once dose iodine or any trace element for that matter.

So getting back to your earlier statement of "I’m certain those great tanks would be just as nice if they simply stopped dosing rubidium. Same for barium."

Could the same be said for all trace elements because my great reef tank was just as good with out dosing any of them. So are all trace elements a sales gimmick?

 

[X-37B]

Has anyone stopped dosing the R on an establish tank and found any change?

 

[TwelveL16]

Has anyone stopped dosing the R on an establish tank and found any change?

Probably a pretty tough thing to establish. As Randy stated its not something that's is absolutely necessary and things change so slowly in corals how would anyone know with absolute certainty whatever the difference seen isn't something else such as a dip in ANY other element.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

@Randy Holmes-Farley So let me understand this. Since we do not know its role in corals and we can have a successful reef tank with out it we should not buy it?

How about some of the other trace elements? For example one we do know its role such as iodine. I had an SPS dominated tank back in 2015 that was extremely successful with very good growth. The only thing I ever maintained was alk with Kalk in my ATO. Never did I once dose iodine or any trace element for that matter.

So getting back to your earlier statement of "I’m certain those great tanks would be just as nice if they simply stopped dosing rubidium. Same for barium."

Could the same be said for all trace elements because my great reef tank was just as good with out dosing any of them. So are all trace elements a sales gimmick?

You say “don’t know the role in corals” as if that is what I claimed. Don’t confuse that weak statement with my very strong statement that they have no kown requirement in any known organism, accomplishing any function to thrive, whether it is known what that function is or not.

There are many trace elements with known critical roles in many or even all organisms.

It’s no leap at all to make a distinction between trace elements known to be useful in at least one organism somewhere and those that have no known use.

Iodine has critical roles in some reef organisms. While I am not sure supplemental iodine is useful, many of the roles it does have are clear.

I explain my opinion on every element here:

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/randys-elements-to-dose.952/
And here

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/randys-thoughts-on-trace-elements.951/

 

[Troylee]

@Randy Holmes-Farley So let me understand this. Since we do not know its role in corals and we can have a successful reef tank with out it we should not buy it?

How about some of the other trace elements? For example one we do know its role such as iodine. I had an SPS dominated tank back in 2015 that was extremely successful with very good growth. The only thing I ever maintained was alk with Kalk in my ATO. Never did I once dose iodine or any trace element for that matter.

So getting back to your earlier statement of "I’m certain those great tanks would be just as nice if they simply stopped dosing rubidium. Same for barium."

Could the same be said for all trace elements because my great reef tank was just as good with out dosing any of them. So are all trace elements a sales gimmick?

That’s pretty much where I stand with it lol.. I feed a variety of food to my fish and that’s enough I guess to replenish the elements my tank needs on top of water changes. So yeah they’re all sales gimmicks who knows but I do know they’re not nearly as important as everyone thinks they are. To dose I should say!

 

[areefer01]

Has anyone stopped dosing the R on an establish tank and found any change?

I may be reading this the wrong way but there are plenty of mature and established tanks that do not dose it and are perfectly fine. On the other hand you may be asking if a moonshiner stopped dosing and noticed any change. For better or for worse. Before and after sort of thing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

If one only wants to maintain NSW levels of everything, that’s a fine goal, but opens one up to a huge assortment of new supplements, uranium, plutonium, etc.

 

[TwelveL16]

That’s pretty much where I stand with it lol.. I feed a variety of food to my fish and that’s enough I guess to replenish the elements my tank needs on top of water changes. So yeah they’re all sales gimmicks who knows but I do know they’re not nearly as important as everyone thinks they are. To dose I should say!

fair enough. My tank back in 2015 would support your theory. I will say this though my growth was amazing however my colors always seemed to be lacking. Maybe I can compare the two as this tank progresses.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I may be reading this the wrong way but there are plenty of mature and established tanks that do not dose it and are perfectly fine. On the other hand you may be asking if a moonshiner stopped dosing and noticed any change. For better or for worse. Before and after sort of thing.

There are.

@rtparty

 

[areefer01]

If one only wants to maintain NSW levels of everything, that’s a fine goal, but opens one up to a huge assortment of new supplements, uranium, plutonium, etc.

Here are my ICP results (ATI) from my dive in December. Fiji. I've started to collect them from my various dive locations for fun. No other reason.

Edit: for the record I reach out to ATI to let them know my sample is NSW. I don't believe it matters but I feel better in case they do something to their equipment before, after or question results that are lower.

Edit 2: This is ATI OES. They also offer the lower level assessment now which is what, ICP-MS. I do not see the need for lower levels as this is just for fun.