reef-pi :: An opensource reef tank controller based on Raspberry Pi.

Simonv92 · Dec 6, 2023

Hi all!
I'm using Reef-Pi on my aquarium to control everything.
Now I'm planning to build a 2 head dosing pump. At first I'll try Tropic Marin All for Reef (tank is 150Lt)
I don't know how to choose which dosing pump to use. I think I'll use Kamoer pump but I don't know if DC or Stepper motor.
Which are the differences in precison between the 2 models?
I want a precise pump that doesn't require frequently calibration... I also plan to use concentrated solution since I don't have too much space in sump for large containers..
Thank you very much!
Best regards

Can you also please tell me what is the Volume tab in the doser configuration? it is refereed to the volume of the container?
Thank you!

Simone

elysics · Dec 6, 2023

Simonv92 said:
Hi all!
I'm using Reef-Pi on my aquarium to control everything.
Now I'm planning to build a 2 head dosing pump. At first I'll try Tropic Marin All for Reef (tank is 150Lt)
I don't know how to choose which dosing pump to use. I think I'll use Kamoer pump but I don't know if DC or Stepper motor.
Which are the differences in precison between the 2 models?
I want a precise pump that doesn't require frequently calibration... I also plan to use concentrated solution since I don't have too much space in sump for large containers..
Thank you very much!
Best regards

Can you also please tell me what is the Volume tab in the doser configuration? it is refereed to the volume of the container?
Thank you!

Simone

In theory, steppers require less/no ongoing calibration. In practice, slow calibration drift doesn't matter if you test for the things that you dose. If dc pumps lose calibration, you still test and still adjust how much you dose, your parameters in the tank will still be fine, you will just be thinking that you corals are growing slower/faster than they actually are. And it won't suddenly dose twice as much, it will be a few percent off. Being in calibration only matters for bragging rights or if you suddenly want to switch a motor to dose something completely different, in which case you should ALWAYS calibrate/check the amount after switching, not matter what pump.

As for precision, if you buy from kamoer you can order different tubing diameters in the pump, which massively alters flow. I have 1mm ID on DC pumps from them and with a bit of pwm i can slowly trickle single drops of liquid. I have various stepper pumps that can also do dropwise.

They dont have just 2 models, they have dozens upon dozens. the more rollers (plastic rolls pressing against the tube) the less difference between individual dosages for tiny amounts close to a single revolution of the motor. But even then that becomes irrelevant if you dose multiple times a day or even multiple times a week, it just evens out. The limiting factor is the physics of drop formation, evaporation at the end of the tube etc, not the pump.

Precision of that kind just doesn't really matter, unless you have some super concentrated solution of some trace element that you want to dose 0.1ml of every few months and more than that would be a dangerous overdose. In which case it would be smart to not hook that up to an automatic system that can malfunction in the first place.

I will say though, with the proper stepper driver, stepper motors are silent while dc motors aren't

Simonv92 · Dec 6, 2023

elysics said:
In theory, steppers require less/no ongoing calibration. In practice, slow calibration drift doesn't matter if you test for the things that you dose. If dc pumps lose calibration, you still test and still adjust how much you dose, your parameters in the tank will still be fine, you will just be thinking that you corals are growing slower/faster than they actually are. And it won't suddenly dose twice as much, it will be a few percent off. Being in calibration only matters for bragging rights or if you suddenly want to switch a motor to dose something completely different, in which case you should ALWAYS calibrate/check the amount after switching, not matter what pump.

As for precision, if you buy from kamoer you can order different tubing diameters in the pump, which massively alters flow. I have 1mm ID on DC pumps from them and with a bit of pwm i can slowly trickle single drops of liquid. I have various stepper pumps that can also do dropwise.

They dont have just 2 models, they have dozens upon dozens. the more rollers (plastic rolls pressing against the tube) the less difference between individual dosages for tiny amounts close to a single revolution of the motor. But even then that becomes irrelevant if you dose multiple times a day or even multiple times a week, it just evens out. The limiting factor is the physics of drop formation, evaporation at the end of the tube etc, not the pump.

Precision of that kind just doesn't really matter, unless you have some super concentrated solution of some trace element that you want to dose 0.1ml of every few months and more than that would be a dangerous overdose. In which case it would be smart to not hook that up to an automatic system that can malfunction in the first place.

I will say though, with the proper stepper driver, stepper motors are silent while dc motors aren't

thank you for your reply!
If you’ll go with stepper which model would you choose from Kamoer? They have too much different models and it’s not easy to choose…
On the other side I’ve seen some good review of the Kamoer KFS pump with DC motor..
I have to build my own control board so DC or stepper is not a big deal..
thank you very much!!

Do you know What is the Volume label in the Doser config of Reef-Pi?

Simone

elysics · Dec 6, 2023

Simonv92 said:
thank you for your reply!
If you’ll go with stepper which model would you choose from Kamoer? They have too much different models and it’s not easy to choose…
On the other side I’ve seen some good review of the Kamoer KFS pump with DC motor..
I have to build my own control board so DC or stepper is not a big deal..
thank you very much!!

Do you know What is the Volume label in the Doser config of Reef-Pi?

Simone

I haven't tried all of them obviously. I've got NKP, KAS and KFS DC. It honestly depends where you plan to buy, what options are available.

I think the ones used on commercial pump boxes with stepper are KFS-ST which is a KFS with a stepper motor instead of gearbox+DC. The new KPAS-100 look nice, have a nice luer connector. KAS are nice for REALLY small amounts, like titration, for large amounts probably KCM. Honestly, NKP, the cheapeast option, work fine too if you choose thin tubing, those or clones of them are on most cheaper dosing pumps from hobby brands.

It's been a while that i ordered from them, can't find a current catalogue from them to download, last time i spoke to them the support on their aliexpress official store was helpful.

Not all versions are always available in both 12V and 24V so be aware of that. Otherwise, the tube size indicators start with a "S" or a "B" for silicone or BPT tubing, choose BPT if possible.

DONT cheap out on the motor drivers. A4988 suck and turn the motors into screaming demons. the typical 3D printer sound. The best i am aware of are TMC2209, those are the ones i use (well i use chinese boards that supposedly have genuine TMC chips, the original boards are a bit expensive), pretty much dead silent motor at low speed, you only hear the squish of the tubing.

No i don't know what the volume label does, i just ignore it, it came with the last big update i think

Simonv92 · Dec 6, 2023

elysics said:
I haven't tried all of them obviously. I've got NKP, KAS and KFS DC. It honestly depends where you plan to buy, what options are available.

I think the ones used on commercial pump boxes with stepper are KFS-ST which is a KFS with a stepper motor instead of gearbox+DC. The new KPAS-100 look nice, have a nice luer connector. KAS are nice for REALLY small amounts, like titration, for large amounts probably KCM. Honestly, NKP, the cheapeast option, work fine too if you choose thin tubing, those or clones of them are on most cheaper dosing pumps from hobby brands.

It's been a while that i ordered from them, can't find a current catalogue from them to download, last time i spoke to them the support on their aliexpress official store was helpful.

Not all versions are always available in both 12V and 24V so be aware of that. Otherwise, the tube size indicators start with a "S" or a "B" for silicone or BPT tubing, choose BPT if possible.

DONT cheap out on the motor drivers. A4988 suck and turn the motors into screaming demons. the typical 3D printer sound. The best i am aware of are TMC2209, those are the ones i use (well i use chinese boards that supposedly have genuine TMC chips, the original boards are a bit expensive), pretty much dead silent motor at low speed, you only hear the squish of the tubing.

No i don't know what the volume label does, i just ignore it, it came with the last big update i think

Thank you again for your quick response! Yeah Kamoer Aliexpress shop isn't that clear...
What do you think about these in the B196 version?:
Kamoer KPAS-100-ST-B196
I also found the KFS DC version in store in italy for 35€ + shipping...
I don't know what to do... In the past I had some DC motor dosing pump and they were pretty noisy.
So the stepper version are interesting. As motor driver I was already thinking about TMC2209 which I use in my 3D printer and they are great.

I'll start the tank with the Tropic Marin All for Reef which require 5-10ml/day every 100Lt. My tank will be 150Lt so I don't have to dose too much product (assuming that I'll spread the dose during the day)

LeDart · Dec 6, 2023

Hey y'all, I am looking into the reef-pi, what Raspberry Pi version does it use? And how hard is it to install, and use? I want to use it for pH monitoring, and dosing.

elysics · Dec 6, 2023

Simonv92 said:
Thank you again for your quick response! Yeah Kamoer Aliexpress shop isn't that clear...
What do you think about these in the B196 version?:
Kamoer KPAS-100-ST-B196
I also found the KFS DC version in store in italy for 35€ + shipping...
I don't know what to do... In the past I had some DC motor dosing pump and they were pretty noisy.
So the stepper version are interesting. As motor driver I was already thinking about TMC2209 which I use in my 3D printer and they are great.

I'll start the tank with the Tropic Marin All for Reef which require 5-10ml/day every 100Lt. My tank will be 150Lt so I don't have to dose too much product (assuming that I'll spread the dose during the day)

if you scroll down and click on "View More" or whatever that is in italian, at the end of the product description above specifications and reviews, you get a bunch more info including the table with the different versions.

Found a reupload of what appears to be the current catalogue with more info, i cannot vouch for this link:

If you want something that's not listed on aliexpress, again, their support their was nice and helpful. Can't hurt to ask for what you want, they might add it to the store there just for you.

B196 is the 6 roller version of B19 and is listed as 40ml/min at 350rpm, so around 0.1ml for one turn of the motor, and with 6 rollers you would get 0.02ml theoretical accuracy, which is less than a drop.

Sounds great.

And now i need to shut up, I'm starting to feel like a shill lol

elysics · Dec 6, 2023

Just wanted to add, just noticed the B19 seems to be listed as having less throughput than B16... might want to clarify if that's not a typo on their end before ordering

ColoredRock · Dec 6, 2023

LeDart said:
Hey y'all, I am looking into the reef-pi, what Raspberry Pi version does it use? And how hard is it to install, and use? I want to use it for pH monitoring, and dosing.

It can be as easy or hard as you want it be... you can do it from the "wires up" or you can go with a robo-tank...just depends on your skill level and capability.

Reef-pi DIY Aquarium Controller Hardware Hat, Automate your Reef Tank

The Robo-Tank DIY aquarium controller is a high quality reef-pi hardware solution. Fully customizable aquarium controller for your saltwater, freshwater or reef tank. DIY or Plug and Play kits available, automate your reef tank keeping your fishy friends safe and happy for years to come.

www.robo-tank.ca

you can use a Raspberry Pi Zero 3 or 4.. 4 is over kill (but what I had at the time when I did mine).

Easiest way is probably to use Rob's hat (robotank).. but if you are familiar with electronics you can bread board it and go from there.

Hugo_Fish · Dec 7, 2023

LeDart said:
Hey y'all, I am looking into the reef-pi, what Raspberry Pi version does it use? And how hard is it to install, and use? I want to use it for pH monitoring, and dosing.

as @ColoredRock is talking about ...it depends.. you can get something pre-made, or you can go about and make your own. How complex you want to make it, is up to you. Honestly, it is cheaper and probably much more "trusting" if you buy one pre-made as you won't have to worry if you soldered something correctly. As for the software, there is a learning curve, and can be troublesome to install but it's not that bad if you put your mind to it and do your research. Or you can do how I did it.. go into it head-on :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:. But if you are quick to temper, you might want to look at something more user-friendly as the UI could go for a minor update. It depends on if you like to tinker with things... You have to remember Ranjib opened the door to customization so it's for you to decide what you want to do.

as for the version of Pi, I had it running on a Pi 2 B+ for a while. I would suggest a Pi 3 and above as they have WIFI.. I'm currently using a Pi Zero w (the Cheapest currently sitting at $15 with no pins soldered) and I seem to not have any issues.

Simonv92 · Dec 7, 2023

Thank you @elysics for all the informations! Very appreciated!! @Ranjib maybe can you please help me with the volume tab in the doser section? What is that for?
Thank you!!

Simonv92 · Dec 7, 2023

Sorry for the double message, the Doser function doesn't control the Enable pin of the stepper driver? We should keep it always enabled?

zerokewl · Dec 13, 2023

Can the reef-pi do AND, OR, IF statements to control dosers etc also based on ph probe settings

Hugo_Fish · Dec 13, 2023

Not to my knowledge at this moment. would be nice to have.. unsure at the moment what the next update will be.

Projects with Sam · Dec 13, 2023

zerokewl said:
Can the reef-pi do AND, OR, IF statements to control dosers etc also based on ph probe settings

If you use virtual outlets you can achieve similar functionality.

for instance, I have a switch in my stand that has a statement similar to:

Code:

light = off
if ( switch==1)
    turn on light for 10 minutes
else if begin time < time < end time
    turn on light

bcirulis · Dec 15, 2023

Hi all,
Wondering if anyone might be able to help me with this issue. I have a Robo-Tank controller running Reef-Pi.

I am just setting up a new tank and moving my existing controller over with a fresh install.

It was all working fine, but after the installing again from scratch I get the following error in Reef-pi:

failed to initialize drivers:can't build hal pin 6: embd: your host ":" is not supported at this moment. request support at https://github.com/reef-pi/embd/issues
Under equipment control, it shows the following in a red pop up box:

{"error":"Failed to update. Error: can't update outlet Power Bar 1 - Outlet 1 driver lookup failure: driver by id rpi not available - can't get output pin"} | HTTP 500

I'm running 5.3, on Raspberry Pi 4 Model B Rev 1.4 with the V2 RoboTank controller.

Thanks in advance! Ben

ColoredRock · Dec 15, 2023

which pi os are you running? is everything updated on the OS end?

bcirulis · Dec 15, 2023

ColoredRock said:
which pi os are you running? is everything updated on the OS end?

Installed Raspberry Pi OS Lite 32 bit from the latest imager. Have run apt-get update as well.

pi@reef-pi:~ $ cat /etc/os-release
PRETTY_NAME="Raspbian GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm)"
NAME="Raspbian GNU/Linux"
VERSION_ID="12"
VERSION="12 (bookworm)"
VERSION_CODENAME=bookworm
ID=raspbian
ID_LIKE=debian

ColoredRock · Dec 15, 2023

umm... I just redid mine a month or so ago when moving it as well... I used Robs script to install.... did you try to plug the powerbar into the other serial port (RS232 Connector).... just an idea.