"Reef Safe" Vendors

[Heathd]

If you ban minors though (anyone under 18 according to law) that's not really fair to the reefers that are 16 or 17 years old. The threat to them is little to none, but they're still banned.

Then make it 13 and older, or whatever someone feels is appropriate. I knew it would be an unpopular suggestion, and it was one I made half heartedly.

Its the unfortunate reality and risk of going in public and doing anything. Just the act of driving to the swap statistically puts us in harms way, and I don't say that to be dismissive of concerns regarding child predators. I've read through the first post multiple times and I'm stuck wondering exactly what it would do to stem predatory behavior

 

[sfin52]

Kids get separated from parents. Heck as a 5yr old I thought it was funny to sneak away when my folks went watching. Than I lost them. Having a place to tell kids to go if they get seperated is a great idea.

After having my brothers girls and them targeted by human traffickers precautions is a good thing.

I really like the idea

 

[helen ann]

I'm curious of the details, this is a very interesting topic.
Was the individual on the registry legally allowed to be there with minors around?
What prompted the check after the fact?

Yes, he was legally allowed to be there. Spoke to an attorney and his probation officer. He has completed all his sentence and is now considered a Level II offender meaning he has went through all necessary requirements by law and completed all judge ordered therapy. He only has to register in the state for which the show is held.

I promoted this show on my FB heavily and the person who told me of this assumed I worked for the show and since they weren’t getting replies from others who are a part of the show they reached out to me for help.

I am not here to blast him or the show, I just think we should do something ‍♀

 

[Crabs McJones]

Then make it 13 and older, or whatever someone feels is appropriate. I knew it would be an unpopular suggestion, and it was one I made half heartedly.

Its the unfortunate reality and risk of going in public and doing anything. Just the act of driving to the swap statistically puts us in harms way, and I don't say that to be dismissive of concerns regarding child predators. I've read through the first post multiple times and I'm stuck wondering exactly what it would do to stem predatory behavior

I guess my thought is what makes a frag swap any different than a grocery store, or a state fair, or a shopping mall, or any other place where mass people gather? Trying to exclude kids could have an impact on participation numbers if people can't get babysitters to watch the kids while they go to the swap.
And excluding people on the registered offender list may help a little, but i'll repeat here what I told a friend of mine. We recently moved into a new house, and directly across the street is the elementary school. A friend of mine said "Must be nice living across the road from a school, no offenders around." My response to that was "It probably helps, but keep in mind, everyone who is on the registry at one point in their life wasn't."
Moral of the story, you're not really safe from anyone. Keep your kids close and always in your eye sight.

 

[Heathd]

I guess my thought is what makes a frag swap any different than a grocery store, or a state fair, or a shopping mall, or any other place where mass people gather? Trying to exclude kids could have an impact on participation numbers if people can't get babysitters to watch the kids while they go to the swap.
And excluding people on the registered offender list may help a little, but i'll repeat here what I told a friend of mine. We recently moved into a new house, and directly across the street is the elementary school. A friend of mine said "Must be nice living across the road from a school, no offenders around." My response to that was "It probably helps, but keep in mind, everyone who is on the registry at one point in their life wasn't."
Moral of the story, you're not really safe from anyone. Keep your kids close and always in your eye sight.

Thank you.

Thats my biggest problem with it. You are effectively designating a muster for lost children at a table where that individual is potentially predatory but hasnt been discovered.

And, to Helen.... Im not trying to poopoo your idea. Just dont see it as really fixing anything ,sorry.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

I'm confused. You guys do realize that Helen's plan wouldn't actually ban anyone, right? It just gives a few added elements of protection for child safety.

I absolutely agree that parents should keep an eye on their kids, but things happen, and it's a cool idea to have some safe areas around the show that kids can go to if they get separated from their parents. The armband idea is similar to any child safety system used by churches or other organizations to be sure that kids are leaving with their parents and not someone they shouldn't.

 

[revhtree]

I think a "safe zone", in terms for free of child harassment, is a ridiculous and silly concept. So what is supposed to happen, a child is sexually harassed in an event with thousands of people and then heads to a "safe zone" sign? Its just a comical idea. And one that could provide more harm than good.


There are no hard qualifications that makes one eligible to be "child safe'. It is not the same as teaching children to seek out police, security guards or people with actual qualifications. And personally, if you told my child to go to a random adult coral seller rather than MYSELF if they are uncomfortable, I would probably spit in your face and give you some choice words.

Hey man no reason to call anyone or any idea ridiculous or silly.

I applaud the effort to keep children safe from all types of danger including any steps we can make to protect them from child predators.

 

[Crabs McJones]

I'm confused. You guys do realize that Helen's plan wouldn't actually ban anyone, right? It just gives a few added elements of protection for child safety.

I absolutely agree that parents should keep an eye on their kids, but things happen, and it's a cool idea to have some safe areas around the show that kids can go to if they get separated from their parents. The armband idea is similar to any child safety system used by churches or other organizations to be sure that kids are leaving with their parents and not someone they shouldn't.

Correct, that's what I was trying to say above, banning kids, or banning offenders wouldn't help the situation

 

[MTBake]

What would you do with grocery stores, gas stations, playgrounds, ect. Just because an offender isn't supposed to be around kids, doesn't mean they abide by that. Bottom line is a wristband isn't going to save someone. I feel this is similar to the safe passage signs in Chicago. It's just a sign. Sorry, but a sign, wristband or badge isn't going to save someone from somebody else looking to do bad things. This is simply making certain people feel safer while really offering no safety at all. Keep an eye on your kids when out with them. Keep your head up and eyes open and assume anyone can do harm.

 

[Silver14SS]

I'm confused. You guys do realize that Helen's plan wouldn't actually ban anyone, right? It just gives a few added elements of protection for child safety.

I absolutely agree that parents should keep an eye on their kids, but things happen, and it's a cool idea to have some safe areas around the show that kids can go to if they get separated from their parents. The armband idea is similar to any child safety system used by churches or other organizations to be sure that kids are leaving with their parents and not someone they shouldn't.

My guess is bringing up that someone on an offender registry was in attendance muddied the waters. The message of the zones for lost children could have stood on it's own and may have avoided the sidebars

 

[helen ann]

What would you do with grocery stores, gas stations, playgrounds, ect. Just because an offender isn't supposed to be around kids, doesn't mean they abide by that. Bottom line is a wristband isn't going to save someone. I feel this is similar to the safe passage signs in Chicago. It's just a sign. Sorry, but a sign, wristband or badge isn't going to save someone from somebody else looking to do bad things. This is simply making certain people feel safer while really offering no safety at all. Keep an eye on your kids when out with them. Keep your head up and eyes open and assume anyone can do harm.

So, we just do nothing?
No need for armbands at hospitals, as I know when you give birth a parent/child bracelet is given and verified before you can remove that child from hospital, no need for indoor playgrounds to have wristbands, no need for other trade shows to have wristbands, or no need for churches to have them?!?

If an armband can stop one child from being removed from a venue by someone other than a guardian, should we not try?

I find it ironic that people are willing to make lists of bad vendors when a coral deal doesn’t turn out how it should but we are unwilling to try and protect our children.

I could very easily look up every vendor on registry and make a list of convicted child predators and post it as long as I only post the crime but my intent is not to do so.

My only goal is to try and make as safe as we can.

 

[helen ann]

My guess is bringing up that someone on an offender registry was in attendance muddied the waters. The message of the zones for lost children could have stood on it's own and may have avoided the sidebars

My personal experience was to make it real, no one really thinks about it nor do they care unless it happens to them. Was my approach the best ... NO!!! It is 100% going to fix the problem ... NO!!!

But I had to try right?!? If this isn’t something that people want then just like most threads this one too will get buried with the rest.

 

[TheHarold]

Hey man no reason to call anyone or any idea ridiculous or silly.

I applaud the effort to keep children safe from all types of danger including any steps we can make to protect them from child predators.

Fair enough, I guess that was harsh. I just feel like it isn't necessary to have that sort of "safe space" system in fear of child predators. I don't think random vendors (arbitrarily assigned; their only qualification being not having a record) should be involved whatsoever in what seems to be a job for security staff at the event.

There are certainly stands that I would not want to be on said list. Surely you have been to shows and know what I mean. It gets complicated quite quickly.

If you want to increase the price of admission, to pay for more trained security staff, that is a 100% logical and reasonable solution IMO.

 

[helen ann]

Fair enough, I guess that was harsh. I just feel like it isn't necessary to have that sort of "safe space" system in fear of child predators. I don't think random vendors (arbitrarily assigned; their only qualification being not having a record) should be involved whatsoever in what seems to be a job for security staff at the event.

There are certainly stands that I would not want to be on said list. Surely you have been to shows and know what I mean. It gets complicated quite quickly.

If you want to increase the price of admission, to pay for more trained security staff, that is a 100% logical and reasonable solution IMO.

I appreciate your stance and believe me I think maybe extra security would be a good thought and I brought that idea up too and got pushback just as I getting here, show host or attendees do not want to pay for extra security or an increase in ticket sales. So, I started looking at what other communities do and this seemed like a good alternative since this wouldn’t cost anyone anything but who am I to say. ‍

 

[MTBake]

All I'm saying is this won't change much at all. It does not check the background of attendees. And you most likely would not be able to even get the name of everyone that attends an event. Unless attendees have to register and go through a background check. Don't think that'll happen.

 

[Quietman]

I think you could make the whole event child safe. Sponsors tell vendors that they need to sign agreement with language on employee screening . Who doesn't do basic background checks now a days? If vendor does not agree you will not be able to display/sell/sponsor etc. Nor will be allowed to attend as a vendor. Doesn't bring up individuals which gets tricky not creating preferred zones, which is also tricky. And if a vendor wants to market or move product they're going to comply.

I've also got to assume vendors have to comply with some sort of standards of conduct now for major events. Just add a line on felony offenses. Take the specific and hot button issue out of it.

 

[helen ann]

All I'm saying is this won't change much at all. It does not check the background of attendees. And you most likely would not be able to even get the name of everyone that attends an event. Unless attendees have to register and go through a background check. Don't think that'll happen.

The armbands would however prevent that child from being removed from a venue by anyone other than who they arrived with.

But as I stated above, if the reefing community finds this unnecessary then this thread will die off and we all go about our lives.

 

[Johniejumbo]

I’m not a big fan of being overly cautious generally. But I think this idea has some merit. It doesn’t exclude anyone. And offender list only have people who have been caught on them. The burden of safety falls on the parents of children and things like safe zones and arm bands will simply give them one more tool to utilize. Plus it’s a public display of awareness. Like a security camera may prevent theft just by being there even if it’s not on.

 

[sharpimage]

Last show I went to there were maybe 50 vendors and maybe 2,000 people buying coral. You going to screen them as well?

And I have 3 kids under 10, so security is top on my list.
I personally favor much harsher terms on crimes, so I am not some nilly willy, free loading hippie, let every one be kind of person.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Last show I went to there were maybe 50 vendors and maybe 2,000 people buying coral. You going to screen them as well?

And I have 3 kids under 10, so security is top on my list.
I personally favor much harsher terms on crimes, so I am not some nilly willy, free loading hippie, let every one be kind of person.

I don't think anyone is talking about screening the vendors. Did you check the plan? It seems like a real common sense option.