"Reef Safe" Vendors

[tripdad]

What it does do is create an atmosphere of judgement. I'll explain. Let's say you implement this plan, all your intentions are good. Now people read about and learn about the program, we all think it's a good idea. Now we are at the show and we see a booth that does NOT have a reef safe sign. Now in reality there may be many reasons but people being people, they will assume the worst and label that booth as being involved with a "bad" individual. So now they get little or no traffic, make little or no money, and can't earn a living? We started with the best of intentions but the world can twist even the best plans in unexpected ways. I agree with the wristbands but think that your naive if you think "a volunteer" is going to stop a determined bad egg. They will not know how to react, engage fast enough. Use professional security only. It limits liability for the organizers, vendors, etc., and they are trained to react. Ditch the booth signs as there are too many possible problems with them. So you can understand me a little bit here's my experience.
As the father of multiples I was educated by those that had gone before about having triplets. There are people who target us, especially us single parents of multiples with a divide and concur strategy. Two individuals approach, each grabs a kid and takes off, what do you do, who do you go after? You still have one child with you to worry about to protect, but two of your kids are being taken, so now, what do you do? My point being that I have faced terrible fears in regards to my children's safety. However, inadvertently trampling on others rights because of my fears is not acceptable. Some parts of your plan are sound, some need rethinking. I wish the world only had good people in it, life would be so much easier.

 

[helen ann]

I do think anyone would disagree about keeping our children safe. offering a lost child area, a safe zone area or handing out wrist bands if parents wanted them would all be really fantastic ideas..

I think the reason for so much push back is the OP is making this all about a individual vendor, how about the thousands of attendees coming through the front doors that nobody knows anything about? That’s who I would be worried about not some vender working his booth with name badge on and hundreds of cameras everywhere.. I mean what are they going to do put up the I’ll be right back sign and go out on the venue floor looking for a victim? IMO forcing vendors to put up safe space/no pervs working here signs just seems creepy and would actually diminish people’s experience at these shows.

There was a very small piece on how this came about, I didn’t make the original post and probably would have modified had I done so but at this point it is what it is. Nothing happened at the show and I hope there isn’t ever an incident. Can’t repeat it enough, I am not trying to stop anyone from doing anything, I just think we should do something but as clearly posted and expressed by many this isn’t a good idea and therefore we move on to other topics of discussion ‍.

 

[MTBake]

What it does do is create an atmosphere of judgement. I'll explain. Let's say you implement this plan, all your intentions are good. Now people read about and learn about the program, we all think it's a good idea. Now we are at the show and we see a booth that does NOT have a reef safe sign. Now in reality there may be many reasons but people being people, they will assume the worst and label that booth as being involved with a "bad" individual. So now they get little or no traffic, make little or no money, and can't earn a living? We started with the best of intentions but the world can twist even the best plans in unexpected ways. I agree with the wristbands but think that your naive if you think "a volunteer" is going to stop a determined bad egg. They will not know how to react, engage fast enough. Use professional security only. It limits liability for the organizers, vendors, etc., and they are trained to react. Ditch the booth signs as there are too many possible problems with them. So you can understand me a little bit here's my experience.
As the father of multiples I was educated by those that had gone before about having triplets. There are people who target us, especially us single parents of multiples with a divide and concur strategy. Two individuals approach, each grabs a kid and takes off, what do you do, who do you go after? You still have one child with you to worry about to protect, but two of your kids are being taken, so now, what do you do? My point being that I have faced terrible fears in regards to my children's safety. However, inadvertently trampling on others rights because of my fears is not acceptable. Some parts of your plan are sound, some need rethinking. I wish the world only had good people in it, life would be so much easier.

Very well said!

 

[Elementalj]

It’s been a while since I’ve posted in these pages and now I see why. Constant conflict over things that should be a simple act of kindness. I am currently under the assumption that some of you if not most have never been on the receiving end of this type of abuse and it shows greatly in your comments. And since this may be my last opportunity to speak before I am expelled I’ll say this. You can conjecture yourselves to death thinking about how these situations could impact the bottom line. The fact of the matter at hand is, to some of you, it’s absurdity to even speak of any opportunity that might create a hurdle for anyone attempting to make a buck. It actually says quite a lot about who and what we are as a group. And before any of you go gasping with offense, I’d suggest you ask a victim how they feel about the idea.

 

[Brandon Smith]

I agree with wanting to wanting a safe environment for everyone at events. Unfortunately in today's world that is hard to do. IT IS A GOOD IDEA. The issue I think everyone is having is how to go about it.

I think the simplest plan of action would be to put a plan in place with the event organizers and volunteers. That way you take away any chance of judgement on vendors that don't volunteer for a background check etc.

 

[helen ann]

Then there is no need for discussion, it was a idea, maybe not the best proposed idea ‍ but it was proposed with nothing but good intentions. I was in NO way trying to interfere with anyone making a living nor was my intention to judge anyone for there past. This was merely something that I felt we should think about. I did a lot of research on whether other trade shows did anything (some do some don’t), researched the whole ‘safe place’ program that fire departments, hospitals and even some subways do, how most(I live in FL so not sure about other stares)indoor kids areas use the arms bands and thought ummmmmmm maybe this is something we should do.

I knew there would be pushback but honestly quite surprised by the reaction.

My plan wasn’t perfect but I had to try and anyone who knows me knows that my intentions weren’t for anything negative just felt strongly enough about it to open the discussion‍.

Back to your regular scheduled programming.

 

[helen ann]

It’s been a while since I’ve posted in these pages and now I see why. Constant conflict over things that should be a simple act of kindness. I am currently under the assumption that some of you if not most have never been on the receiving end of this type of abuse and it shows greatly in your comments. And since this may be my last opportunity to speak before I am expelled I’ll say this. You can conjecture yourselves to death thinking about how these situations could impact the bottom line. The fact of the matter at hand is, to some of you, it’s absurdity to even speak of any opportunity that might create a hurdle for anyone attempting to make a buck. It actually says quite a lot about who and what we are as a group. And before any of you go clutching your pearls and gasping with offense, I’d suggest you ask a victim how they feel about the idea.

You know I love you right?!?

 

[Brandon Smith]

It’s been a while since I’ve posted in these pages and now I see why. Constant conflict over things that should be a simple act of kindness. I am currently under the assumption that some of you if not most have never been on the receiving end of this type of abuse and it shows greatly in your comments. And since this may be my last opportunity to speak before I am expelled I’ll say this. You can conjecture yourselves to death thinking about how these situations could impact the bottom line. The fact of the matter at hand is, to some of you, it’s absurdity to even speak of any opportunity that might create a hurdle for anyone attempting to make a buck. It actually says quite a lot about who and what we are as a group. And before any of you go clutching your pearls and gasping with offense, I’d suggest you ask a victim how they feel about the idea.

I agree with you. It can be hard to put yourself in someone's shoes if you have never been in the situation yourself. I think as community, the course of action should be how do we implement a plan that would create safe environment. Some feelings may get hurt, sure. Safety is always my priority when I am out with my family or even when I am by myself.

 

[MTBake]

Protecting children is always important. I just don't think this will stop someone that is determined to take a child. Plain and simple. That's why I don't think it's needed. All this does is give some people a false sense of security, imho. A volunteer checking these wrist bands is not up to par. Should be a licensed security guard at least. And interfering with someone trying to make a living is another concern. If one doesn't go through the hoops to get the sign, they will most likely be bypassed by some patrons.

A wrist band will not stop someone from taking a child. Who's to say they don't cut it off and say they never got one when they entered by some volunteers mistake.

The safe area could also lead to a predator scouting those areas.

All this does is make a certain group of people feel safe while offering no real safety at all. That's my issue with it.

 

[Silver14SS]

All this does is make a certain group of people feel safe while offering no real safety at all. That's my issue with it.

I have no idea how effective safe areas, wristbands, etc., are, but security theater is a fascinating topic.

 

[CubsFan]

In the age of smart phones, I’m surprised it’s so tricky to keep track of kids. Kids should be educated on what to do if they get lost and all about stranger danger. They should know phone numbers and addresses. I grew up in the 80s and the only difference I can see now is that you can put a tracking device on your kid.

 

[motortrendz]

I agree that the safe space or even arm band is not a bad Idea in itself. But the fact that 1 person being singled out. Named or unnamed becomes a problem. If they were legally allowed to be there have served their time and completed all programs implemented by a court than there should be no problem with someone tetong to earn a living. If that said person did something sketchy or caught on camera doing something wrong then I ser the need for background checks, kinda. (One bad seed ruining others who have done their time and changed their course.)

I also got the vibe from the first post that it wasnt just about being safe, otherwise the whole background check thing wouldnt have been brought up. I worked in law enforcement for many years. Worked with some of the worst offenders in the state of NJ.. but I can tell you theres also alot of decent people that got jammed up on that list, that are struggling to make their way back to a normal life... most will not get there as they will be judged by the mistakes fromt their past for the rest of their loves(nothing goes away on the internet!) Serious offenders, would not be allowed by law to hold jobs where contqxr with minors exist. Probation will enforce and check into those jobs. And if an offender is found to be violating their court order they will find themselves finishing their time back where they started. You cant always judge a book by its cover and not everyone on the list is, has or ever will hurt a child.
As a father of a daughter, I take that responsibility upon myself to protect my child and if we are out in public i dont let my child dissapear from my sight. That's MY job as a father.

Added security is never a bad thing, not allowing someone to be a vendor bc of their past, who has done everything right since, I feel is wrong

 

[motortrendz]

The other thing I have a question about is you need to know the person's name to have all their info on the registry, I honestly dont know anyone's full name that works for any of my favorite shops.... so obviously theres more to it than is being said.... someone had an issue with someone being there and brought their full information to light which allowed you to search them out. As you also said that they complede a their order therapy and time... who's to sat that the person regretted a mistake they made in the past and is legitimately trying to just be a good person and work to support a themselves, a family or rebuild their life....

 

[helen ann]

Protecting children is always important. I just don't think this will stop someone that is determined to take a child. Plain and simple. That's why I don't think it's needed. All this does is give some people a false sense of security, imho. A volunteer checking these wrist bands is not up to par. Should be a licensed security guard at least. And interfering with someone trying to make a living is another concern. If one doesn't go through the hoops to get the sign, they will most likely be bypassed by some patrons.

A wrist band will not stop someone from taking a child. Who's to say they don't cut it off and say they never got one when they entered by some volunteers mistake.

The safe area could also lead to a predator scouting those areas.

All this does is make a certain group of people feel safe while offering no real safety at all. That's my issue with it.

True, then no safe areas are need

I agree that the safe space or even arm band is not a bad Idea in itself. But the fact that 1 person being singled out. Named or unnamed becomes a problem. If they were legally allowed to be there have served their time and completed all programs implemented by a court than there should be no problem with someone tetong to earn a living. If that said person did something sketchy or caught on camera doing something wrong then I ser the need for background checks, kinda. (One bad seed ruining others who have done their time and changed their course.)

I also got the vibe from the first post that it wasnt just about being safe, otherwise the whole background check thing wouldnt have been brought up. I worked in law enforcement for many years. Worked with some of the worst offenders in the state of NJ.. but I can tell you theres also alot of decent people that got jammed up on that list, that are struggling to make their way back to a normal life... most will not get there as they will be judged by the mistakes fromt their past for the rest of their loves(nothing goes away on the internet!) Serious offenders, would not be allowed by law to hold jobs where contqxr with minors exist. Probation will enforce and check into those jobs. And if an offender is found to be violating their court order they will find themselves finishing their time back where they started. You cant always judge a book by its cover and not everyone on the list is, has or ever will hurt a child.
As a father of a daughter, I take that responsibility upon myself to protect my child and if we are out in public i dont let my child dissapear from my sight. That's MY job as a father.

Added security is never a bad thing, not allowing someone to be a vendor bc of their past, who has done everything right since, I feel is wrong

No one said they couldn’t be a vendor.

 

[motortrendz]

True, then no safe areas are need

No one said they couldn’t be a vendor.

You mentioned a few times about having vendors being background checked. And about the signs. It's like a shaming them out... if they can still be a vendor bit with a scarlet letter above their booth. Noone would want to shop there and would shun them out...

 

[helen ann]

The other thing I have a question about is you need to know the person's name to have all their info on the registry, I honestly dont know anyone's full name that works for any of my favorite shops.... so obviously theres more to it than is being said.... someone had an issue with someone being there and brought their full information to light which allowed you to search them out. As you also said that they complede a their order therapy and time... who's to sat that the person regretted a mistake they made in the past and is legitimately trying to just be a good person and work to support a themselves, a family or rebuild their life....

Again, he/she can be a vendor.

You mentioned a few times about having vendors being background checked. And about the signs. It's like a shaming them out... if they can still be a vendor bit with a scarlet letter above their booth. Noone would want to shop there and would shun them out...

on only those vendors that would volunteer to be a ‘safe’ area. based on the feedback here nobody would be shunned.

 

[bluprntguy]

So the vendor didn't do anything, no children were harmed, some people got some nice frags and everyone had a good time.

I'd be more concerned with the fact that school aged children are practicing active shooter drills at school and that gun violence now ranks as the number one cause of death for kids, surpassing car accidents for the first time in 2017. If you are concerned about a reef show that apparently went off without any incidents, it's probably not because you are worried about the kids.

Seems like the only problem is judgmental people that want to punish someone that they think deserves it.

 

[MTBake]

I'm just offering my opinion on the matter. Anyone should expect that when posting on social media. As I said before, if it makes you feel better, then keep pursuing it. Not everyone will have the same views or opinions. Doesn't mean we can't all be friends in the end. You posted you view/opinion and I posted mine in return.

If someone really believes in something, I encourage them to pursue it, just make sure to get input from people outside of your friends and family first. Loads of different view points out there

 

[helen ann]

So the vendor didn't do anything, no children were harmed, some people got some nice frags and everyone had a good time.

I'd be more concerned with the fact that school aged children are practicing active shooter drills at school and that gun violence now ranks as the number one cause of death for kids, surpassing car accidents for the first time in 2017. If you are concerned about a reef show that apparently went off without any incidents, it's probably not because you are worried about the kids.

Seems like the only problem is judgmental people that want to punish someone that they think deserves it.

How am I punishing anyone? How am I judging anyone?

 

[motortrendz]

Again, he/she can be a vendor.
on only those vendors that would volunteer to be a ‘safe’ area. based on the feedback here nobody would be shunned.

And anyone who doesnt would be questioned as a "predator"?
And you ignored my question about how it came to light bc obviously you need more than just joe from joe shmoes corals looked at something bad on the internet. You seemed to know all.about his therapy and his court ordered process.