OP
OP
trevorhiller
Reefing Nurse
Fair enough. Sure dogma was a little click-baity— But sometimes that’s how you get people engaged in discourse. I think most understand the gist of this thread even if the examples aren’t “dogma” per se.
Reef Tank Dogma
- Thread starter trevorhiller
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Then there are those of us that kinda stick to those rules of thumb because they have worked well long term.
You may want to think outside the box and be a trend setter. Then you get old and you just want to sit comfortably within it and relax. Maybe with a nice blanket and some coffee.
Tomorrow
Reef catmas
Dont get crabby. You will hurt someone's feelings.
In all honesty I don't know anyone I consider so well versed at this that I would take what they say as dogma about anything.
I tend to go that's nice dear and go and do what I think is best.
There are many whose opinions I value and consider though.
You may want to think outside the box and be a trend setter. Then you get old and you just want to sit comfortably within it and relax. Maybe with a nice blanket and some coffee.
Tomorrow
Reef catmas
Dont get crabby. You will hurt someone's feelings.
In all honesty I don't know anyone I consider so well versed at this that I would take what they say as dogma about anything.
I tend to go that's nice dear and go and do what I think is best.
There are many whose opinions I value and consider though.
EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal
Just another girl who likes fish
"...I think most of what people have listed as examples of ‘dogma’ are really just general recommendations that no one is really militant about..."
*Maybe not on this site, but there are definitely some militant folks on other forums!
*Maybe not on this site, but there are definitely some militant folks on other forums!
OP
OP
trevorhiller
Reefing Nurse
Oh you noticed that too?
EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal
Just another girl who likes fish
Definitely not on any Houston-based site...Oh you noticed that too?
I honestly see very little of that type of "dogma". Maybe because the only site i frequent is here and by and large i think the advice given here is good and not usually given in a "it must be done this way or you fail" approach.
For example i would always advise a new reefer that a skimmer is a very good option. I would never say it is essential and there are countless examples of sucessful reefs without it.
UV sterilizers being another common example. I often see people recommend them, but rarely see them listed as essential(which certainly they arent).
Dburr1014
7500 Club Member
Experiences and a knowledge base take a reefer to the next level. The knowledge base, for the most part, probably comes from internet and books. The experiences, whether bad or good, I think, is where the 'rules of thumb' are formed.
So the learning and experiences go on and on until we get some folks who can prove or disprove what we have come to know as 'rule of thumbs'.
But then, everyone has there own experiences and knowledge from that experience and try to tell others about it. If someone else doesn't agree then they will chastise that person. (unless, of coarse, they are well respected)
Not sure where I'm going with this!? 
So the learning and experiences go on and on until we get some folks who can prove or disprove what we have come to know as 'rule of thumbs'.
But then, everyone has there own experiences and knowledge from that experience and try to tell others about it. If someone else doesn't agree then they will chastise that person. (unless, of coarse, they are well respected)
Not sure where I'm going with this!?
MillennialReefer
Active Member
As someone that's been reefing for over 12 years, there's no correct way of doing anything in this hobby. As long as stability is maintained, the animals are healthy, eating and growing then does it really matter how you achieved it?
dogmae shot down
-you can't remove a sandbed all at once that will rob critical bacteria. -> see seven year running instant sandbed removal thread for proof of concept updates.
-you can't run a pico reef they'll die of coral allelopathy. -> see any current pico reef at nano-reef.com or here in the nanos forum for the last 19 years.
-you can't run a successful reef on high phosphates or high nitrates-> see Rich Ross posts and articles on the matter, Paul B's tank parameters respectively.
-if you don't do X your reef cycle will stall
-> currently getting undone need another year for final proofs.
-you can't dose peroxide into your reef it will kill the filter bacteria
-> see any seneye owner + peroxide doser's posting, there are five in the world lol. Peroxide boosts your tank bacteria vs harms it, dilution makes it a mere oxygen boost to a set of life forms called aerobes
if you removed all your water, and filled with only 3% peroxide brought to seawater salinity, you'd have some issues.
-you can't remove a sandbed all at once that will rob critical bacteria. -> see seven year running instant sandbed removal thread for proof of concept updates.
-you can't run a pico reef they'll die of coral allelopathy. -> see any current pico reef at nano-reef.com or here in the nanos forum for the last 19 years.
-you can't run a successful reef on high phosphates or high nitrates-> see Rich Ross posts and articles on the matter, Paul B's tank parameters respectively.
-if you don't do X your reef cycle will stall
-> currently getting undone need another year for final proofs.
-you can't dose peroxide into your reef it will kill the filter bacteria
-> see any seneye owner + peroxide doser's posting, there are five in the world lol. Peroxide boosts your tank bacteria vs harms it, dilution makes it a mere oxygen boost to a set of life forms called aerobes
if you removed all your water, and filled with only 3% peroxide brought to seawater salinity, you'd have some issues.
future dogma to be addressed:
all reef tank cycling is a for-charge, pay to play event.
-you cant upcycle reef rocks by sitting them in swirling reef water for 4 mos having never fed or dosed anything (system must be open topped obviously). Water + rocks + room contamination contact cannot self-cycle, it'll be sterile at the end of the wait and unable to move any degree of ammonia as a cycled reef would.
-> lets take bets it will move some ammonia
a second cycling chart is in the works: the unassisted reef tank cycle option. its prologue says your whole home is a filthy, filthy microbial zone of cross vectoring heh.
all reef tank cycling is a for-charge, pay to play event.
-you cant upcycle reef rocks by sitting them in swirling reef water for 4 mos having never fed or dosed anything (system must be open topped obviously). Water + rocks + room contamination contact cannot self-cycle, it'll be sterile at the end of the wait and unable to move any degree of ammonia as a cycled reef would.
-> lets take bets it will move some ammonia
a second cycling chart is in the works: the unassisted reef tank cycle option. its prologue says your whole home is a filthy, filthy microbial zone of cross vectoring heh.
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o2manyfish
Valuable Member
Life is ever evolving - In this hobby there is one person who has had success doing something where 10,000 people have not. And that's because the life we try to maintain adapts to some of the crappy situations we put them in.
To me Micro Nanos are a great example. Life surviving in an enviroment where the stability we strive for is near impossible to maintain. Everytime a door opens, or the AC clicks on, or the heater, or someone walks by and farts and that 1g of water changes dramatically. But there are lots of people proud of their pico tanks who believe their zoa collection is thriving better than any big tanks.... Not realizing that some of the prettiest Zoas have been found where raw sewage dumps into the ocean (true story). And that too is another sign that life adjusts to its surroundings better than we can provide the surroundings (most of the time).
My other favorites are - "No sunlight can ever hit the tank!" As if sunlight is Kryptonite to our aquariums. Sunlight, the same thing that maintains all coral life (photosynthetic) for millenia before they ever came to be collected for Aquaria. It's good enough for mother nature - but its dangerous to my fish tank - Fooey.
And these days there is the - "Corals only thrive under blue light." You need blue light to grow healthy corals. Some of us have been in this hobby for decades not just dozens of months, and successfully kept corals when all we had were old yellow parking lot lights. Yes Blue makes (some) corals prettier. But blue is not the only range of light that keeps corals alive and thriving.
And my final diatriabe -- "Damsels are the Devil." This is the most fish bigotted statement ever. If you believe Damsels are the Devil, then you are amoung the uneducated. It's like being in the south and saying Every White person everywhere has a farmers tan. I'll give credence to the fact that I doubt there is a domino, 3 stripe or 4 stripe damsel that has ever been a pleasant community fish. But Damsels are more than just those 3 fish. Some of the best community fish are damsels -- Clowns for starters, but more specific, Talbots, Kupang, Springeri (True), Stegassi and Starkii - All great fish that do well in a community tank without beating the crap out of everything.
The regurgitation of misinformation is one of the downsides of our modern communications format. Even worse is that people will defend their misinformation (to the hilt) not based on experience or first hand knowledge, but because they read it somewhere. Not knowing that the original author is sitting in his/her's mother's basement, in their PJ's and has yet to advance past the goldfish they won at the last school fair.
Dave B
Old Cranky Reefer
To me Micro Nanos are a great example. Life surviving in an enviroment where the stability we strive for is near impossible to maintain. Everytime a door opens, or the AC clicks on, or the heater, or someone walks by and farts and that 1g of water changes dramatically. But there are lots of people proud of their pico tanks who believe their zoa collection is thriving better than any big tanks.... Not realizing that some of the prettiest Zoas have been found where raw sewage dumps into the ocean (true story). And that too is another sign that life adjusts to its surroundings better than we can provide the surroundings (most of the time).
My other favorites are - "No sunlight can ever hit the tank!" As if sunlight is Kryptonite to our aquariums. Sunlight, the same thing that maintains all coral life (photosynthetic) for millenia before they ever came to be collected for Aquaria. It's good enough for mother nature - but its dangerous to my fish tank - Fooey.
And these days there is the - "Corals only thrive under blue light." You need blue light to grow healthy corals. Some of us have been in this hobby for decades not just dozens of months, and successfully kept corals when all we had were old yellow parking lot lights. Yes Blue makes (some) corals prettier. But blue is not the only range of light that keeps corals alive and thriving.
And my final diatriabe -- "Damsels are the Devil." This is the most fish bigotted statement ever. If you believe Damsels are the Devil, then you are amoung the uneducated. It's like being in the south and saying Every White person everywhere has a farmers tan. I'll give credence to the fact that I doubt there is a domino, 3 stripe or 4 stripe damsel that has ever been a pleasant community fish. But Damsels are more than just those 3 fish. Some of the best community fish are damsels -- Clowns for starters, but more specific, Talbots, Kupang, Springeri (True), Stegassi and Starkii - All great fish that do well in a community tank without beating the crap out of everything.
The regurgitation of misinformation is one of the downsides of our modern communications format. Even worse is that people will defend their misinformation (to the hilt) not based on experience or first hand knowledge, but because they read it somewhere. Not knowing that the original author is sitting in his/her's mother's basement, in their PJ's and has yet to advance past the goldfish they won at the last school fair.
Dave B
Old Cranky Reefer
I agree with this right here. My little one is always right.My reef dogma. I have found him to be completely true.
Daddy, the sumps needs cleaning.
Here, let me do it.
All done.
Did I do good?
I’d say the biggest one I’ve seen (from back in the day), you’re going to struggle with anything less than 55 gallons. Nanos are for experts only due to stability issues.
It makes it taste better and once the ich gets garlic breath the fish stay away from it.Haha
garlic helps against ich
I don't know since I don't have a dogma in the fight!
another dogma coming up soon to be shown incorrect: you can starve out a cycle during a fallow period. A set-in, prior full-function cycle is starved if humans/masters of the universe/ withhold fish food in a home setting in a tank packed with organics from a prior fish-in run.
-> show me on seneye one single instance ever documented. this concept goes hand in hand with self cycling.
why is everything thing we're trained about bacteria in reef filtration centered around the doubt/reinforcement mode from all angles
because someone has the peace of mind for sale
a fourth dogma:
sellers of reef gear operate on 100% opposite cycling rules to the trained buyers. that one is true, we support this dogma.
such as-
Nitrite
buyers: you better wait for hard zero proof or you'll stall your cycle. average wait for you, about a month-ish. completion times range; you will never get your tank ready on a known completion date, testing and finesse determines completion date. it ranges tank to tank.
sellers: we never check it and none of our tanks mis a start date at a convention. we certainly wouldn't care if some was detected; we believe Randy's article from 2006. every time we want bioload carried worth $30 grand in frags, we attain that. at home or in a different city, doesn't matter, total timeliness.
Ammonia control
buyers: you must get absolute zero or you'll stall your cycle. expected wait time after dosing bottle bac: one month, it ranges, no two tanks can have a predicted cycle completion date.
sellers: we never check it in our tanks at reef conventions because we've moved over already cycled rocks from styrofoam containers which constitutes complete no-wait skip cycling. that's not in the buyer's option set, as you can see they are patiently waiting a month and dosing more bacteria (convenient, right?) for every perceived stall.
we know reef tanks don't run at zero ammonia, seneye owners know this too, so why would you expect that and wait for it in a cycle relying on the worlds most cheap ammonia test kit to read hard zero
Nitrate
buyers: if your test kit doesn't say some positive degree of nitrate, you're stalled, wait another month.
sellers: we could not care less what nitrate reads in any cycle. If full running reef tanks can be zero nitrate and still retain a cycle, then a newly cycled tank (or skip cycle live rock insta setup) may also show zero nitrate especially if we select to measure with the world's most cheapest available marine nitrate test kit, api nitrate. we dont care, we'll never factor nitrate in a cycle. You will. and you'll buy more bacteria when api commands you to.
-> show me on seneye one single instance ever documented. this concept goes hand in hand with self cycling.
why is everything thing we're trained about bacteria in reef filtration centered around the doubt/reinforcement mode from all angles
because someone has the peace of mind for sale
a fourth dogma:
sellers of reef gear operate on 100% opposite cycling rules to the trained buyers. that one is true, we support this dogma.
such as-
Nitrite
buyers: you better wait for hard zero proof or you'll stall your cycle. average wait for you, about a month-ish. completion times range; you will never get your tank ready on a known completion date, testing and finesse determines completion date. it ranges tank to tank.
sellers: we never check it and none of our tanks mis a start date at a convention. we certainly wouldn't care if some was detected; we believe Randy's article from 2006. every time we want bioload carried worth $30 grand in frags, we attain that. at home or in a different city, doesn't matter, total timeliness.
Ammonia control
buyers: you must get absolute zero or you'll stall your cycle. expected wait time after dosing bottle bac: one month, it ranges, no two tanks can have a predicted cycle completion date.
sellers: we never check it in our tanks at reef conventions because we've moved over already cycled rocks from styrofoam containers which constitutes complete no-wait skip cycling. that's not in the buyer's option set, as you can see they are patiently waiting a month and dosing more bacteria (convenient, right?) for every perceived stall.
we know reef tanks don't run at zero ammonia, seneye owners know this too, so why would you expect that and wait for it in a cycle relying on the worlds most cheap ammonia test kit to read hard zero
Nitrate
buyers: if your test kit doesn't say some positive degree of nitrate, you're stalled, wait another month.
sellers: we could not care less what nitrate reads in any cycle. If full running reef tanks can be zero nitrate and still retain a cycle, then a newly cycled tank (or skip cycle live rock insta setup) may also show zero nitrate especially if we select to measure with the world's most cheapest available marine nitrate test kit, api nitrate. we dont care, we'll never factor nitrate in a cycle. You will. and you'll buy more bacteria when api commands you to.
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Daniel@R2R
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Haha! Great thread!!
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