Refugium Q's

[jdareef]

I am going to be adding a refugium to my system within the next week. A couple of questions; I am using miracle mud as the substrate. Since it will have established water running through it from my DT, do I need to wait for a cycle to take place before adding livestock? If so, how long should I wait to add the livestock?
Thanks is advance,
Joseph

 

[Troylee]

skip the mudd it has ill effects over time.... you can use a deep sand bed but even that i would stay away from... bare bottom is the easiest to clean and maintain... you can also throw some live rock rubble in there with the chaeto or what ever you are gonna use.....
you say your adding this to your system??? is the tank already cycled??? or is the whole sha bang new??? if it's all new yes you need to wait for your cycle to complete...
if the system is already running and has livestock you dont need to remove them to add a fuge......hth..

 

[jdareef]

troylee-
I have researched the mud and I have heard good and bad. Some say that it is a "waste of money" and "does the same thing as a DSB", but haven't heard that it is harmful to your aquarium. Have you had this experience? I agree BB is the easiest to maintain and clean, but I don't think you are required to clean MM(correct me if I'm wrong)? Yes my tank has been established for over a year. I wasn't clear about the adding livestock thing though. I'm not asking whether or not to remove my animals from my DT, I'm asking if I should wait to add animals to the fuge itself?
Thanks for the reply,
Joseph

 

[Troylee]

Mm will release nutrients back into water coloum after x amount of time... Yes I had this exp on a nano I had awhile back....
What livestock are you gonna add to the fuge??? Pods??? If it is tied in with your current tank that has been up and running for a year there will be no cycle....

 

[soccerbag]

I have to agree with Troy. If you are going to setup a refugium (and a lot of successful reefers have them), I would go barebottom and place a powerhead in the chamber to keep the cheato rolling and the detritus off of the bottom. They can be a huge nutrient trap (when sand is in there). Just a thought as you don't want your refugium to lead to more tank maintenance. Live rock (as stated above) would be a good idea and would be a good way to keep the cheato in place....

 

[jdareef]

Hadn't heard that. I'll research it. Thanks for the heads up.
Plants: Caulerpa, Mangroves
Animals: ORA Dragonette, a couple Pipefish, 2 Skunk Cleaner Shrimp, some Naussaris Snails, some Red Leg Hermits, 1-2 Emerald Mithrax Crabs, Pods, maybe a couple Sponges, Tuxedo Urchin, Purple Linckia Star, maybe a Porcelain Crab. There will be LR in there too.
BTW I am aware that the dragonette will probably wipe out any copepods in there. That is OK because copepods are not the reason I am setting up this refugium.
Thanks again for the advice,
Joseph

 

[soccerbag]

Gotcha...didn't realize you were looking to setup a whole ecosystem in there - I missed that in the earlier post. That being the case, you may just want to do a shallow sandbed.....easy to vacuum out the detritus. If you're gonna have pipefish in there, they would NOT appreciate a great deal of flow. Would love to see some pics once you get this done. Sounds like it will be fun fuge......

 

[drainbamage]

In your case I'd use either the MM or a sand bed (not a deep, the caulerpa should accomplish the same as a DSB would) and add the chaeto. There's no need to wait for a cycle as the fuge will be tied into your tank. I would recommend waiting 2-4 weeks (if not longer) before addind your dragonettes and pipefish just to allow a huge 'pod population to develop. Though you aren't worried about keeping 'pods in terms of cultivating them, having some in their before you introduce the predators will make the acclimation much easier for the dragonettes and pipefish giving them a much better environment. Also, do you have plans for preventing the caulerpa from spawning?

HTH some.

 

[jdareef]

Yeah I forgot to mention that earlier LOL. Will I still get the benefits of the refugium you're talking about with this system? I'm looking for a way to keep lower nitrates/phosphates in the aquarium without spending a lot of $$$ in dry goods every month and doing it naturally seemed like a healthy way to go. On top of that it will be a "sanctuary" for the weaker and more difficult animals to reside in. I realize that I will still have to add some media to keep my levels in check. I was thinking about making a build thread of some sort but it's only going to take half a day or so at worst to get up and running. I will keep you posted when I go to set it up.
Thanks a lot!
Joseph

 

[jdareef]

I was actually planning on adding LR from my DT and adding tigger pods to the caulerpa. I'm not too worried about the dragonette needing copepods because it is from ORA. I have heard the complaints about them not eating pelleted foods but I have heard of people having success with cyclopeeze and nutramar ova, which is what pipefish are said can be weaned on to. I plan to wait about a month before adding the pipefish so that the pod population can grow. Unfortunately I don't have that luxury with the ORA dragonette. If I don't claim in by the day after it comes in I will lose my chance to take it home. Hopefully he survives on the pods from the LR until he adapts to the nutramar or cyclopeeze. I didn't have a game-plan yet on controlling the spawning as I wasn't aware that I needed to worry about it. What will come about if I don't take precautions to keep the spawning under control?
Thanks a lot!
Joseph

 

[drainbamage]

If the caulerpa spawns, it undergoes what's called melt. Basically some part, or all of it, disolves into the water column to spread it's cells (I don't know the scientific technical, the experts can chime in if I've butchered it too badly.) Only way I know of preventing this is to put the caulerpa on a 24 hour light cycle. I've kept some in excess of 6 months with 0 spawning doing a 24 hour light on it. This is why a lot of folks prefer using Chaeto over the caulerpa.
Instead of buying tigerpods, since you already have the tank running, could I reccommend putting some aquaclear foam (or similar looking foam) blocks into the tank. Leave these in there until you get your fuge set up, and then transfer the foam. These work great as 'houses' for the 'pods and you'll accelerate the seeding process at a fraction of the price of the tigerpods.

I actually have two wild-caught dragonettes, both of whom eat frozen foods. They'll munch mini-mysis, cyclops, prawn eggs, and H2O Life's Caviar. One thing is I have to throw it pretty much in front of their face, without scaring them, and even then they'll pick a couple pieces out of the cloud. They're both fat as all heck, so they seem to be either coming back and munching on the rest, or finding pleanty of food in the tank.
Do keep in mind with your pipe's, they'll be competition to the mandarin, so while they're compatible, try and make sure you're mandarin is eating more of the prepared foods and there's a healthy pod population still for the pipe's to graze on while you're getting them to eat the prepared as well.
Any and all build threads are good to read through, if you take the time to post one it will be much appreciated!