Requesting: Detailed Instruction on Curing Dry Rock

WannaBSpaghetti

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Hello Experienced Reefers,

The BRS Channel has done a video on this, and I've seen a few threads touch on it, but there is a knowledge gap for me on how to deal with my Rock in the planning stage of setting up a reef tank.

Now, for most walkthroughs and guides one of the first steps after setting up your stand, tank, and sump is to get your rock into the tank. The disconnect is that when I read about purchasing new rock, especially dry, there is a timeframe that doesn't align with the idea of throwing your rock in: The general advice seems to be to let your new rock soak in a tub with a power head and heater (that I guess is for dedicated use in your RODI tubs? Idk) for a month or longer! I'm really glad I didn't pull the trigger and use my tax refund to nab that RSR250 I've been dreaming about, because I haven't even placed an order for rock yet!

So how does this work? Should you start curing before you even get your tank set up? What is the process? How do you best avoid smell? How do you best avoid phosphate leaching? Is it worth it to go with ReefSaver Dry to avoid dead organics? Do you soak in your RO/DI Tub? Does uncured rock help you cycle? Will tossing uncured rock into your DT result in the equivailant of a military grade stink grenade to go off in your living room? You you suggest bleaching the rock before throwing it in your RO/DI bucket? Do you dispose of every drop, clean, and dry the RODI container after having this rock in it?

There just seems to be a lot of unanswered questions regarding exactly how new reefers are to handle curing new rock for a new system, and I think it would be very beneficial for some of the more seasoned reefers who have set up dozens of tanks and purchased hundreds of pounds of rock to weigh in (ha) on the subject.

Sincerely,
Transitioning to Spaghetti
 
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chipmunkofdoom2

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I think the problem is a lot of the rules of thumb we have for live rock come from the days when we actually used to use live rock in this hobby. Even most of the "live" rock in the hobby today is practically devoid of life. So the old rules for curing rock don't really apply.

As to whether "uncured" rock will help you cycle, what does "uncured" mean? Uncured rock used to mean ocean rock, or rock that was harvested from the ocean before it was sent to you. There were tons of organics all over the rock, and the shipping process killed a lot of the sponges and more fragile creatures on the rock, which caused a very hard cycle with a lot of ammonia. BRS Reef Saver rock is technically uncured, but it will not help you cycle at all. Reef Saver is mined from a quarry on land and likely has no organics to rot and produce ammonia, which is what creates a "cycle." Some of BRS's rock that has come from the ocean, such as Pukani, might help the tank cycle, but it depends what died on or in the rock. If you bleach or acid wash the rock, it's not going to help you cycle nearly as much, if at all, as it would if you just put it in the tank untreated.

I would probably pretreat the dry rock regardless. I would do a vinegar bath for a few days, maybe then followed by a bleach bath. I'd then let it soak in deionized water for a day or so, let it soak in fresh saltwater for a day or so, then put it in the tank. I don't think I'd add an ammonia source to cycle the old-fashioned way. I'd add one of the many bacteria-in-a-bottle supplements available and start adding fish. But, I don't think I'd ever start a tank with dry rock again, so take my opinion for what it's worth.

You can use any container you want for cleaning/pretreating the rock, as long as it hasn't contained other chemicals. I personally would not use an RO/DI container or saltwater mixing container for this, as the cleaning process is going to get the container dirty, but you could always clean it.

TL;DR: If you have dry rock, you can do two things, you can pretreat it or not.

If you're going to pretreat it, you're removing all the organics from the surface and inside of the rock, so the rock likely won't start a cycle. After you pretreat and add it to the tank, you'll need to add an ammonia source, or a bacterial supplement. If you add an ammonia source, you need to wait for a month, or until testing indicates the cycle is done. If you're going to add the bacterial supplement, the tank is probably safe for fish right away. Be sure to read the directions if you go this route.

If you're not going to pretreat, rinse the rock off and throw it in your tank. Despite not pretreating, the rock might not produce ammonia. Monitor for 30 days or so for a cycle. If you don't see ammonia, you'll need to add some.
 
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WannaBSpaghetti

WannaBSpaghetti

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I think the problem is a lot of the rules of thumb we have for live rock come from the days when we actually used to use live rock in this hobby. Even most of the "live" rock in the hobby today is practically devoid of life. So the old rules for curing rock don't really apply.

As to whether "uncured" rock will help you cycle, what does "uncured" mean? Uncured rock used to mean ocean rock, or rock that was harvested from the ocean before it was sent to you. There were tons of organics all over the rock, and the shipping process killed a lot of the sponges and more fragile creatures on the rock, which caused a very hard cycle with a lot of ammonia. BRS Reef Saver rock is technically uncured, but it will not help you cycle at all. Reef Saver is mined from a quarry on land and likely has no organics to rot and produce ammonia, which is what creates a "cycle." Some of BRS's rock that has come from the ocean, such as Pukani, might help the tank cycle, but it depends what died on or in the rock. If you bleach or acid wash the rock, it's not going to help you cycle nearly as much, if at all, as it would if you just put it in the tank untreated.

I would probably pretreat the dry rock regardless. I would do a vinegar bath for a few days, maybe then followed by a bleach bath. I'd then let it soak in deionized water for a day or so, let it soak in fresh saltwater for a day or so, then put it in the tank. I don't think I'd add an ammonia source to cycle the old-fashioned way. I'd add one of the many bacteria-in-a-bottle supplements available and start adding fish. But, I don't think I'd ever start a tank with dry rock again, so take my opinion for what it's worth.

You can use any container you want for cleaning/pretreating the rock, as long as it hasn't contained other chemicals. I personally would not use an RO/DI container or saltwater mixing container for this, as the cleaning process is going to get the container dirty, but you could always clean it.

TL;DR: If you have dry rock, you can do two things, you can pretreat it or not.

If you're going to pretreat it, you're removing all the organics from the surface and inside of the rock, so the rock likely won't start a cycle. After you pretreat and add it to the tank, you'll need to add an ammonia source, or a bacterial supplement. If you add an ammonia source, you need to wait for a month, or until testing indicates the cycle is done. If you're going to add the bacterial supplement, the tank is probably safe for fish right away. Be sure to read the directions if you go this route.

If you're not going to pretreat, rinse the rock off and throw it in your tank. Despite not pretreating, the rock might not produce ammonia. Monitor for 30 days or so for a cycle. If you don't see ammonia, you'll need to add some.

Thank you for your detailed reply - I never considered the fact that I was reading "tips" from 2010 was partially why I had so much conflicting information. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer, and this has helped me immensely and put my mind at ease on a thing or two.

Thanks!
 

Nathan Milender

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I have also been struggling with this as I obtained a pile of used completely dried out rock. I have a bath tub full of it plus a big rubbermaid. I have been using tap water which goes through the house filtration and has the salt from the softener if it. There could be phosphate, I did not test it. What I can tell you is that it has been going for about 1 month now. The first two weeks produced a strong barn/urine smell I assume was the organic die off. It now smells like clean ocean wihch is surprising as it is still in salt water. My plan (as I finally get my tank near ready to put water in it) is to figure out the aquascape and add it to the aquarium with it's first round of salt water. I am not sure if the switch will make the bacteria re-cycle and switch to salt water bacteria (I never looked up the difference) but I will use one of those bacteria cocktails to help it along, get the chaeto going, and hopefully avoid an algae outbreak. I agree that as I looked into the curing process most if not all of the advice is for actual live rock. In the old days, you could pay a LFS store a premium and put that stuff in your tank ready to go. That is not the same as used dried up rock.
 
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I just got done curing 25 lbs of Caribbean live rock. It all fit into a five gallon bucket so I added a small heater a small/cheap powerhead and filled with my existing tank water (I added rock to an established 175 gal system). After one week I did a 100% water change again with my tank water. And repeating this for 3 weeks until there was no ammonia present, I did a heavy rinse and scrubbing with tank water prior to adding to my tank and everything went fine. I added two bottles of Bio-spira just to be safe after introducing the rock into my tank.

If you are doing this with a new system I suggest doing a fishless cycle in the tank for 3 weeks with some kind of media for bacteria growth, such as sand or preferably a Marinepure product. Use ammonia and a bacterial starter(Dr. Tim’s, Bio-spira, etc). While you’re tank is cycling cure the rock separately in buckets for a 2-3 week period with newly mixed water & add the bacteria to the buckets as well, rinse during every water change. After the third 3rd week most of the crap should be off the rock and it will have a good amount of bacteria present. Add the rock and more bacteria to the tank and you will be able to add fish at this point (if no ammonia is present and the nitrite is very low). Most importantly make sure you have a very good RO/DI system from BRS, I had a hell of time cycling a tank with a subpar RO system that I had, this really matters. Hope this helps, good luck!
 

K7BMG

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Octo.
I am new to reefing as well. Setting up a tank here hopefully within the next two to three months.

I am confused now as I don't understand the need to do the acid bath on dry rock.
Now this may just be a misunderstanding of the term dry rock on my part.
I think WannabeSpaghetti is referencing the same dry rock I have been buying.

The dry rock I have purchased is white and bleached out, and supposedly pre-cleaned by what ever method, bleach, acid, both, ETC.
Basically guaranteed clean and free of all detritus hitch hikers and the like. Other than a RO/DI rinse before cure time cleaning is not necessary.

They also sell rock that has been removed from a reef, ocean, reef farm, or a tank and dried but not cleaned.
Obviously one would want to clean this as you referenced and then cured. Again understanding the terminology correctly.

Then of course there's the "live rock", Live Sand, you can take home along with fish and walah insta tank.

To my current understanding I was advised to just take my Dry Rock as is, put it in a container (Brute trash can) or the tank itself add, salt water to cover the rock, a heater and a power head to circulate the water over the rock, and a frozen shrimp or two or Dr. Tims for the ammonia food source. The water should be changed each week or if a skimmer is in use maybe every two weeks and watch for it to cycle out, then add my marine life.

But your saying to clean it again as the proper way?




Nathan,
Am I understanding you correctly here?
You are curing your rock with fresh tap water not salt water?
Clearly you state adding the rock to the tank for its first taste of salt water.
Or maybe you added water softener salt?

With my research so far I have never come across the method you are explaining here.
Though I know there are many methods for the curing process my gut says you may have some issues.
I would get some more advice from more knowledgeable people than a first timer like myself.
I would hate to see you have your animals die off needlessly.

I live by the rule "Same throughout" creates Stability.
Stability overall is the key to a healthy tank.
But hey that's just a rookies .02 cents of thought.
 

cromag27

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Octo.
I am new to reefing as well. Setting up a tank here hopefully within the next two to three months.

I am confused now as I don't understand the need to do the acid bath on dry rock.
Now this may just be a misunderstanding of the term dry rock on my part.
I think WannabeSpaghetti is referencing the same dry rock I have been buying.

The dry rock I have purchased is white and bleached out, and supposedly pre-cleaned by what ever method, bleach, acid, both, ETC.
Basically guaranteed clean and free of all detritus hitch hikers and the like. Other than a RO/DI rinse before cure time cleaning is not necessary.

They also sell rock that has been removed from a reef, ocean, reef farm, or a tank and dried but not cleaned.
Obviously one would want to clean this as you referenced and then cured. Again understanding the terminology correctly.

Then of course there's the "live rock", Live Sand, you can take home along with fish and walah insta tank.

To my current understanding I was advised to just take my Dry Rock as is, put it in a container (Brute trash can) or the tank itself add, salt water to cover the rock, a heater and a power head to circulate the water over the rock, and a frozen shrimp or two or Dr. Tims for the ammonia food source. The water should be changed each week or if a skimmer is in use maybe every two weeks and watch for it to cycle out, then add my marine life.

But your saying to clean it again as the proper way?

if you don't know for a fact your rock was acid bathed the proper way, and/or don't want to risk it (you used the word "basically...", then do it yourself. i have learned to never trust rock i haven't stripped myself. way too many nasties come in with rock. even rock you think may be 'dry' could have pests hidden in it.
 

K7BMG

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if you don't know for a fact your rock was acid bathed the proper way, and/or don't want to risk it (you used the word "basically...", then do it yourself. i have learned to never trust rock i haven't stripped myself. way too many nasties come in with rock. even rock you think may be 'dry' could have pests hidden in it.


Good advice, and I understand your point.
Currently the rock has been stored in a Rubbermaid Brute in a dry environment for some months now while I gather the rest of the gear so I know there are no living creatures like bristle worms that could possibly be alive. But I don't know what could be dormant waiting for re-birth once salt water comes into contact again.
 

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But, I don't think I'd ever start a tank with dry rock again, so take my opinion for what it's worth.

Sounds like you've had a lot of experience starting tanks with various kinds of rock. What was your experience with dry rock that would make you want to avoid using it again? Did you have a specific issues with it?

Just wondering.

Thanks.
 
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Cessna89811

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Before I had purchased my RSR350, I started curing my dirty BRS Pukuni in bleach water for a month. After a month of bleach water cure, I rinsed well and declorinated the Pukani. After that I cycled the rock for over 6 months in a rubbermaid container in my garage. I took my time because I had to paint walls and get the room ready for my RSR350. I added the Pukani to the RSR350 and then did the traditional month + cycling before adding livestock.
 

stAlphonzo

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My recent experience was, if you buy rock like reefcleaners you don't need to cure. I put it in my tank, added salt water, ammonia and bacteria and the cycle started. 3 weeks later and I'm adding clean up crew, etc and close to adding hardy coral.
 

PhreeByrd

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Times definitely have changed, and we currently have a lot of options for rock. When I started my first reef tank 25 years ago, I did it with a lot of DIY aragocrete rock and a few pieces of nice, mature live rock from the LFS. I would not do that now. Even though I put it through a several-week process of 'curing' in pure water and then saltwater, the rock I cast myself took forever to stop leeching phosphates, even though in the DT it quickly populated with bacteria, sponges, and other life from the real live rock. And that tank went through a long and slow process of some serious uglies. All of these years later, I still have much of that DIY rock in the display, and it's fine now, but I would never go that route again. My LFS still keeps a good stock of nice live rock that's been cured a long time, but it would be extremely expensive to use only that rock to set up a tank of any size.

There really is no 'curing' of dry rock, assuming that we are talking about rock like BRS pukani. It is completely dry and devoid of any life, so there is nothing to 'cure' in the classic sense. As others have pointed out, though, it would take nearly forever to establish the bacterial colonization that's necessary for a healthy, stable reef tank, and even adding all of the bacterial supplements available would still not provide the variety of microbial and other beneficial life that would be present in real ocean-harvested rock. When I did use (BRS) dry rock, I rinsed it in RO/DI water, soaked it in aerated RO/DI water for a couple of weeks (replacing the water every few days), then in clean saltwater for a few days. To give it a bit of a jump start, I then soaked it in tank water saved from a water change for a few days before placing it in the tank. Still, it took about a year before it looked like the rest of the rock in the display.

Honestly, if I was starting from scratch, I would go through a process similar to what I did with the 'new' dry rock, but when I was ready to use saltwater, I would add in a few pieces of well-established live rock from the LFS to populate the dry rock. Adding some ammonia or waste/food products would indeed be necessary to keep all of the bacteria alive and thriving. There really is no reason that you could not just start the display tank with a mix of rinsed dry rock and real, established live rock, and then very slowly add hardy fish to support the bacterial colonization. It probably would be much more rewarding to go that route than to watch your rock sitting in a bare container of water for a couple of months.

With all of that said, I just cannot imagine having a tank started with only dry rock. It would never be what it could have been, and will never be any kind of real representation of ocean life. Unless it's all about instant gratification, going through some uglies is not necessarily a bad thing, and it's certainly not the end of the world. If it is about instant gratification, then this is not a good hobby at all.
 

stAlphonzo

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There really is no 'curing' of dry rock, assuming that we are talking about rock like BRS pukani

The reason for my comment was because of the things I'd read about the BRS Pukani specifically. I understand that there is a lot of dead material on that rock which specifically needs special care, cleaning and curing so it's doesn't leach and cause an endless cycle. My knowledge of it is purely academic though since I've done one saltwater tank so far and used ReefCleaners because of Jeff's claim that his rock is precleaned and free from organics....


I would add in a few pieces of well-established live rock from the LFS to populate the dry rock.

Couldn't agree more with this one. My LFS sells Florida aquacultured live rock. I bought one small piece to help. I might have gotten more, but I didn't realize that they sold it until after my dry rock was ordered. It still helped though.

I probably would have done all live rock if I had the money, though in retrospect, the very slow pace of cycling the dry rock, growing diatoms and waiting waiting waiting for it to stabilize seems like an appropriate exercise for someone just getting into the hobby. If you think you're going slow, slow down a lot more :D
 

saf1

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Well, there are multiple ways to skin this cat (please don't call PETA - no cats have, or will be, skinned) so my suggestion is to do what you are doing. Continue to read until you find a solution that works for you and your product. I went through this back in February with about 150 lbs of dry Pukani of various sizes some small to some large enough to be used in my front yard for landscape (true). It was dusty, dirty, varying shades of white, tan, and brown, with lots of lose debris and old algae, sticks, rock, grass, and corals abound. After researching the rock (my previous tank and rock was back in 2000 when I ordered live rock from Harbor Aquatics back in the day via Fiji) I came to the conclusion that it would be dirty as I noted and possibly leach high phosphates over the course of a year or more. So buyer beware. Knowing this here is what I did more or less.

1. Unbox
2. Spread out on driveway and inspect
3. Remove what was obviously visible and within easy access (why work hard and break my back - not like I'm 20)
4. Bring out pressure washer and wash
5. Turn over, pressure wash some more
6. Divide rocks has best I could among 4 or 5 tubs
7. Fill tubs with tap water from yard hose
8. Toss in power head for water movement
9. Add bleach - forget amount but not a lot - and let sit over night
10. Next day empty tub, add fresh water, add more bleach, and let sit over night
11. Repeat step 9
12. Day three empty, refill, add lanthium chloride and sit over night
13. Next day empty tub, add fresh water, add more lanthium chloride, and again sit over night
14. Repeat step 12
15. Empty tubs of water and spread rock back on driveway
16. Pressure wash
17. Flip over
18. Pressure wash some more
19. Rinse rock in pre-made ri/ro water - not critical I believe but since I had it why not
20. Add rock to new tank and aquascape away
21. Add sand
22. Add initial saltwater using ri/ro water
23. Add in dechlorinator to be safe
24. Test water parameters
25. Turn on heater and let sit over night
26. Measure ammonia
27. Calculate amount of ammonia to add for fishless cycle, add and wait 24 hours
28. Measure ammonia to proper measurement, it was spot on
29. Add Dr. Tim's one and only
30. Start day one of cycle

That is more or less what I did. Some use acid (not the 60's sort of stuff) to remove the gunk off Pukani but I didn't want to remove a couple layers of rock I spent money on thus my using bleach. It doesn't really remove a layer. Just whitens and cleans up some of the loose stuff. The key for me was the pressure washing before and after and then sitting in the lanthium chloride to help reduce phosphates. It must have helped because my phosphates are pretty manageable it seems (to me anyway) and all in all it cycled pretty well. This was all in February through March with no lights, skimmer, etc. Just natural ambient light from the room or window along with the heater. It wasn't until April 15th that I fired up the skimmer and lighting for the first time for a couple days before migrating my 40 breeder into the new 210 gallon I set up.

Having said this I would never use Pukani or dry rock again. It is fun to watch biology and mother nature work but hind sight being 20/20 and two children in college it was the safest and most affordable route to go. But....I would use live rock from TBS if I am to ever do this again. The live rock from Fiji was amazing and a nice cycle and experience. So is this one. Just not a fan or dry but say in another 6 months my Pukani will look pretty good I'm sure of it.
 
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PhreeByrd

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The reason for my comment was because of the things I'd read about the BRS Pukani specifically. I understand that there is a lot of dead material on that rock which specifically needs special care, cleaning and curing so it's doesn't leach and cause an endless cycle. My knowledge of it is purely academic though since I've done one saltwater tank so far and used ReefCleaners because of Jeff's claim that his rock is precleaned and free from organics....

I bought a whole bunch of the BRS Pukani several years ago. Something like 150 lbs. It was all very clean and I never found any dead material on it, so apparently my experience was much different. I still have a bunch of it left that I've never used, but unless the quality of what's available right now has changed drastically, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it again. No special care at all was required with the rock I received from BRS.
 

stAlphonzo

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I bought a whole bunch of the BRS Pukani several years ago. Something like 150 lbs. It was all very clean and I never found any dead material on it, so apparently my experience was much different. I still have a bunch of it left that I've never used, but unless the quality of what's available right now has changed drastically, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it again. No special care at all was required with the rock I received from BRS.

That's great to hear, thanks for the follow up. I love the look and porosity of it, but hesitated because of what I'd read. It all worked out anyway since I'm really happy with the ReefCleaners rock but it would be cool to add some Pukani at some point for variety. I could see it making a nice island.
 

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if you don't know for a fact your rock was acid bathed the proper way, and/or don't want to risk it (you used the word "basically...", then do it yourself. i have learned to never trust rock i haven't stripped myself. way too many nasties come in with rock. even rock you think may be 'dry' could have pests hidden in it.
Even the dry rock that already looks bleached white could have pests?
 

K7BMG

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Even the dry rock that already looks bleached white could have pests?

Well you need to know about your rock.
If your rock is bleached white means nothing. Could have been cleaned put into a tank and picked up who knows what.
If you have bleached white rock that you know has been sitting around for a while and truly, completely, DRY, then no, pests will not be a concern.
When I say pests I am talking living creatures not bacteria.
 

Ross Petersen

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Well you need to know about your rock.
If your rock is bleached white means nothing. Could have been cleaned put into a tank and picked up who knows what.
If you have bleached white rock that you know has been sitting around for a while and truly, completely, DRY, then no, pests will not be a concern.
When I say pests I am talking living creatures not bacteria.
10-4. I just purchased a bunch of marco reef rock. I think I'm just going to pre-rinse in vinegar for an hour, then dip in RO/DI water, and then let it cycle in a bucket of RO/DO saltwater for a week or two with some Microbacter 7. I'm on a bit of a timeline to get this up and going (dare I say). Sound reasonable?
 
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