Return pump recommendation!

[Brew12]

Brew12,
Although the Vectra may be the same motor as the link you provided, I believe it has some dissimilarities.
The power supply which is a primary failure of DC pumps. I am not for certain but I believe the Vectra uses a higher quality power supply. Also a feature often overlooked is the low voltage supplied. eg Jebao 24v , Vectra 36V. I always prefer the higher voltage simply for the fact of lower current draw. Lower current draw tends to heat up less than a 24v hence slightly better reliability. Now, if you are using a high quality 24v then it's a different story, that being said I highly doubt Jebao is using high quality components.
Second on the list of failure would be the controller, hands down Vectra has this feature over Jebao.
Yes you are correct in that it may have far more features than one may need, but the quality is better.
Third comes the pump. Usually pumps on their own are not a concern, except for things such as tolerances between the shaft and bearing as well as rotor to stator. This comes to play when calcification becomes a concern. Take an Eheim motor for an example , I 've gone a year without cleaning, once taken out it did not have a spec of calcium deposit. I can't say that about these new DC pumps yet. This could be part of the motor failures, for which are misdiagnosed for a motor failure.eg(open winding)

Also another spec I would like to mention that nobody talks about and as far as I am concerned is most important, the performance of the pump.
This is where I believe the Vectra stands out. Look at their flow rates vs others of the same pump and you can clearly see others a far more exaggerated.
Without mentioning names , I have seen a test clearly documented on a DC pump which claims a flow rate of 6000l/h and true flow rate was 4000l/h roughly 33% at 55 W. This is insane. As you can see given this spec there are several AC pumps that can come very close or even exceed those numbers.
A quality pump with comparable, if not better flow to some of these DC pumps are the Fluval Sp motors.Not only do they perform well the are just as quiet as some of these DC if not quieter. So all this fuss over DC pumps I truly don't understand, unless you need variable flow.
I can tell you there will be an AC motor coming after the New Year that will be extremely efficient;) and very quiet.
JMO

Agree with almost all of this. This is the type of research I wish more people would do!
Just a few thoughts
I think most motor failures are because of water leaking into the housing or mechanical binding (mostly due to poor maintenance)
The difference in current between 24V and 36V is about 1.1A @ 80W so it isn't too significant in smaller motors like this.
I would also point out that the Vectra pumps have also had flow complaints.
Completely agree that Vectra's have better controllers and that is what you are paying for with Ecotech. Power supplies are probably almost exactly the same between manufacturers.

 

[gcarroll]

The Jebao is a rebranded Waveline, which many people consider a fine pump.

Actually it was the other way around. The Waveline was a rebranded Jebao. That has since changed, as Waveline has separated from Jebao and making their pumps in a new factory. The Reef Octopus pumps were the same way and they also left. Both left due to the fact that the poor reliability of the Jebao led to poor profits. The old Waveline (Jebao built) pumps had a horrific failure rate.

The Vectra uses the same motor as Top Eco and are made by the Shenzhen Hipool Motor Company. You can get the 80W Top Eco for under $100. With the Vectra you are paying for a higher quality controller with nice features. You are not paying for a reliable motor. You aren't going to find a custom built motor for a return pump application for under $500. The setup costs are just too high so many aquarium manufacturers have their products built to the exact same specs at the same factories. Use different color plastics, add a different logo, and without research no one knows any different.

http://www.globalsources.com/si/AS/...-12000L-h-6.5m-PMSM-water-pump/1055227665.htm

ksed already beat me to the differences in the Ecotech and the Top Eco. They also chose to change the magnet material of the rotor to a magnet that would not need to be coated to prevent corrosion. So although they are made in the factory, the Ecotech motor is custom to their specifications. Funny, that everyone is all of a sudden talking about the Top Eco, when the Deepwater BLDC has been out for around 3 years. It is also built in the same factory. The pumps coming out of Shenzhen Hipool Motor Company are a better design than that of Jebao. The Jebao has poor cooling around the rotor. This causes heat to build up there and that heat promotes calcium build up on the rotor. This is why they have to be decalcified more often than any other pump on the market.

See, you are not the only one doing homework! Just some dig a lil deeper! :)

 

[gcarroll]

The difference in current between 24V and 36V is about 1.1A @ 80W so it isn't too significant in smaller motors like this.
I would also point out that the Vectra pumps have also had flow complaints.

If you have seen the component's in these Chinese DC pump controllers, any reduction of current would benefit them as heat is the enemy of electronics.

Curious at what flow complaints you have heard of with the Vectra. I am fairly positive that Ecotech would not post fictional flow numbers. Most of the time they insure that the numbers are above what they print. I will admit that they only post the amount of energy consumption that makes it to the pump and those numbers do not account for inefficiencies of the power supply and the controller (approx 10-15%). I give them points though for admitting and explaining why they do it that way.

 

[Roberto CRC]

The Jebao is a rebranded Waveline, which many people consider a fine pump.

The Vectra uses the same motor as Top Eco and are made by the Shenzhen Hipool Motor Company. You can get the 80W Top Eco for under $100. With the Vectra you are paying for a higher quality controller with nice features. You are not paying for a reliable motor. You aren't going to find a custom built motor for a return pump application for under $500. The setup costs are just too high so many aquarium manufacturers have their products built to the exact same specs at the same factories. Use different color plastics, add a different logo, and without research no one knows any different.
http://www.globalsources.com/si/AS/...-12000L-h-6.5m-PMSM-water-pump/1055227665.htm

Wao, this is really interesting, I seem to be seeing a Vectra but in another color.

 

[Roberto CRC]

The subject became very interesting and I like that because it can serve as a base for all those who need to buy a bomb and like to have information on how to select it.

In my case because of urgency, the bad experience with Jebao and that I only have the Jebao and Vectra available. So I ended up buying the Vectra M1 yesterday. Then I hope to give you some review and compare quality a bit versus Jebao.

 

[Roberto CRC]

Here another similar to Vectra http://www.marinedepot.com/search?Category=FIWP&Brand=PL1

 

[Brew12]

Actually it was the other way around. The Waveline was a rebranded Jebao. That has since changed, as Waveline has separated from Jebao and making their pumps in a new factory. The Reef Octopus pumps were the same way and they also left. Both left due to the fact that the poor reliability of the Jebao led to poor profits. The old Waveline (Jebao built) pumps had a horrific failure rate.

Well, with Chinese companies it is very arbitrary on how to look at this. Jebao doesn't build their own motors, either. Jebao is little more than a marketing (pseudo pirating) firm. This is why you will never see a unique Jebao design. Probably has something to do with why their product names are near knock offs of better known products too. :confused: The Wavelines were made at a factory that also made different models of Jebao pumps. Waveline made a design change but licensed their old design to be sold as Jebao and one or two other companies.

I haven't heard that Waveline has changed motor suppliers, but it is possible.

If you have seen the component's in these Chinese DC pump controllers, any reduction of current would benefit them as heat is the enemy of electronics.

This comment is true, I was strictly referring to the motor itself. As I have already said several times, the Vectra controllers are higher quality than Jebao. No argument there.

The pumps coming out of Shenzhen Hipool Motor Company are a better design than that of Jebao.

I think that is a very arbitrary comment to make. I find it hard to get statistics on this to make a good comparison. I do know that I have used a Hipool motor in an industrial application and it was not a good quality. Never having used a motor from the specific manufacturer that Jebao uses, I can't make a direct comparison. I do believe some of Jebao's motors are actually made by Hipool, just not this specific product line.

Curious at what flow complaints you have heard of with the Vectra. I am fairly positive that Ecotech would not post fictional flow numbers. Most of the time they insure that the numbers are above what they print.

There are 1 or 2 threads here on R2R about flow issues with the Vectra's. I haven't seen one from a formal review but I don't know that I have seen it tested, either.

I will admit that they only post the amount of energy consumption that makes it to the pump and those numbers do not account for inefficiencies of the power supply and the controller (approx 10-15%). I give them points though for admitting and explaining why they do it that way.

I really appreciate Ecotech doing it this way. It is far and away the least deceptive method of providing the information.

See, you are not the only one doing homework! Just some dig a lil deeper! :)

Which is fantastic! Keep digging! :D

 

[Brew12]

Here another similar to Vectra http://www.marinedepot.com/search?Category=FIWP&Brand=PL1

There are really only a small handful of actual motor companies in China that make this type of motor so rebranding is very common. The motors themselves are almost identical. The impellers, accessories, and cords tend to be different.
It works the same way with powerheads, but it is less obvious because the cages are much cheaper and can be designed individually. If you ever look at the motor half of any Jebao power head design it won't be hard to match it to one supplier or another.

 

[gcarroll]

Personally, I just try to stick with European products.

 

[Brew12]

Personally, I just try to stick with European products.

If you can afford it, this is the way to go! Buy it once and be done!

 

[mcarroll]

So does Danner make Danner's pumps?

 

[11f150]

Hi friends, I need your recommendations.

In February of this year she bought a Jeta DCT-8000. The pump seemed excellent for the capacity, which is adjustable and is very quiet. However, as 1 month it failed and remains as worked. After trying to work for a long time, I succeeded. Yesterday came a fall again and I realize that I need a new bomb, but I do not know what to buy.

I need you to have:

At least 1800-2000 gph or more.
Adjustable.
Submersible.
Make it good.

What can you recommend?

Jebao I do not know if it was bad luck, but several friends have those same old ones and they still work without any problems. I'm scared to buy another Jebao and have bad luck again.

Regards

What size tank are you using and what overflow?

 

[Moo76]

Hi friends, I need your recommendations.

In February of this year she bought a Jeta DCT-8000. The pump seemed excellent for the capacity, which is adjustable and is very quiet. However, as 1 month it failed and remains as worked. After trying to work for a long time, I succeeded. Yesterday came a fall again and I realize that I need a new bomb, but I do not know what to buy.

I need you to have:

At least 1800-2000 gph or more.
Adjustable.
Submersible.
Make it good.

What can you recommend?

Jebao I do not know if it was bad luck, but several friends have those same old ones and they still work without any problems. I'm scared to buy another Jebao and have bad luck again.

Regards

I can't comment on which pump. Get the one that best suits your needs. Sometimes you get a premature failure. You should always have a backup pump but it does not need to be expensive or duplicate the full water flow of the original.
just needs to circulate water until you get a replacement. Normally decent pumps run for years providing you do some basic maintenance/cleaning.

 

[Brew12]

So does Danner make Danner's pumps?

At least some of Danner's pumps are made in China.

 

[mcarroll]

Same place as mentioned above, or who knows?

And are some actually made in the USA?

(Just curious.) :)

(How do you find this stuff out, BTW!?)

 

[Brew12]

Same place as mentioned above, or who knows?

And are some actually made in the USA?

(Just curious.) :)

(How do you find this stuff out, BTW!?)

I'm not aware of a single hobbyist aquarium motor made in the USA. Not saying there isn't, only that I haven't found one yet.

Some of it I find through research on the internet. Some of it I cheat and ask my motor vendors about. While they mostly deal with larger industrial motors they have lots of contacts throughout the industry.

 

[johanngh1977]

Neverrrr!!! Waveline, the worse costumer service , really crap company...100 times better jebao dcs version...in my own experience i high recomended " REEF OCTOPUS VARIO S-6", after 7 month like a out of box, really good warranty and excellent costumer services...
Good luck and happy reefing!!

 

[FindNem0]

Ecotech. M-1 or L-1.

 

[Ben Seaver]

I personally love Ecotech's stuff. I use their MP40's on my DT. And as I said, if I were going to be building a closed loop flow system, I would most certainly use their product. Fantastic features.

That could actually be a controller problem, also. You may have determined an exact cause so it could be the motor but it could be a problem with the soft start function in the controller.



Most of my filtration occurs in my DT, not my sump. I only have my skimmer and heaters in there. If I lose my return pump I can just move a heater into my DT and I will be good for days.

If you really want reliability at a reasonable price point you may want to reconsider having it controllable. You can get some tried and true AC pumps at a very good price. Of course, I don't know your system so there may be a reason you need it to be controllable.

I feel like an idiot here but you just gave me an "ah hah" moment with putting the heater in my sump. I never thought of that. Get rid of some unnecessary wires in my DT. Good form sir!

 

[alton]

As Aquarist we are passionate about our hobby, it is great we can have a civil conversation. For me I use the M1 because of the controllability, when I do not need controls I use Rio pumps for internal and Pan World for external. I do have an old Pan World setup with valves and unions just in case my M1 fails.