Roller mats v skimmers

[becon776]

Think of it this way.....

Roller mats or any type of mechanical filtration has to have that stuff go down your overflow to be collected. What about the stuff that settles inside the display and never makes it to the mechanical filtration?

It will break down in the display adding itself to the water column as DOC's, and that's what the skimmer will remove that the mechanical filtration doesn't.

- when you have good mech filtration... It is good to STORM the tank weekly. I mean stir the sand and violently blow off the tank then change socks next day. or just sit and do nothing with roller mats. I don't even run my skimmer bc all nutrient levels at 0. and trying to build them up a bit before I start dosing N and P.

 

[sixty_reefer]

The mechanics are different but as said there are similar things achieved with both just at different stages not all of course.

yep here’s a good example of an iconic reef that doesn’t have any of the equipment mentioned above just a refugium for export. This will do the breakdown of nutrients in a different way also.

 

[atoll]

- when you have good mech filtration... It is good to STORM the tank weekly. I mean stir the sand and violently blow off the tank then change socks next day. or just sit and do nothing with roller mats. I don't even run my skimmer bc all nutrient levels at 0. and trying to build them up a bit before I start dosing N and P.

Forgive me but it just seems madness to have to dose N&P when you can just manage it. But each to thier own. Whatever works for people and works well can't be denied.

 

[S2G]

I use to be a you must have mechanical filtration person. However, I have a eshopps rectangle sock setup which is a royal pain so I pulled my mechanical to see what would happen. Nothing my levels stayed the same and very little gunk buildup. I take a spare powerhead and blow my rocks off 1x every wk or 2 that's the only time I use mechanical. So in my eyes if it's a VS situation then ime a skimmer wins.

I also like eels & big messy fish. I have a feeling I'd be burning through mats fairly quickly.

A removable chamber to trap debris is the most economical solution in my case.

 

[CuzzA]

Roller mats are being touted as the latest and greatest, all I am asking is, is that really so and what perhaps a skimmer might remove a roller mat won't?

To the first part of your question... Yes. They are the latest and greatest. Filter bags should be changed every other day to prevent break down of nutrients. This requires several bags that need to be stored before being washed with bleach and then hanged to dry. In a price comparison it really boils down to how much you value your time and all the waste water to clean them.

To the second part, as mentioned they remove waste at different stages. A skimmer removes what a bag does not.

I am a firm believer if you want a healthy system it needs to be fed heavily, just like on natural reefs. Lots of food, clean water. But this can only be accomplished with a great nutrient export attack. I think most people will never get their fish to full size maturity, nor will they get them to breed because they are fed just enough to sustain their life. Employing multiple nutrient export techniques allows us to feed heavy and keep the water clean.

I am happy that I will never change or clean another filter bag again... ever. ;)

 

[atoll]

To the first part of your question... Yes. They are the latest and greatest. Filter bags should be changed every other day to prevent break down of nutrients. This requires several bags that need to be stored before being washed with bleach and then hanged to dry. In a price comparison it really boils down to how much you value your time and all the waste water to clean them.

To the second part, as mentioned they remove waste at different stages. A skimmer removes what a bag does not.

I am a firm believer if you want a healthy system it needs to be fed heavily, just like on natural reefs. Lots of food, clean water. But this can only be accomplished with a great nutrient export attack. I think most people will never get their fish to full size maturity, nor will they get them to breed because they are fed just enough to sustain their life. Employing multiple nutrient export techniques allows us to feed heavy and keep the water clean.

I am happy that I will never change or clean another filter bag again... ever. ;)

I use a waterfall ATS, a good efficent skimmer, an Oxydator and a small reactor with Rowa to keep my nutrients where I want them. So yes a combination of nutrient export, oxidation, breakdown, absorption and removal. I also feed heavily at least 4 times a day often more.

 

[Telvis]

I started using a Klir7 for my 210 about a month ago. Still on the first roll of floss and it works like a charm. Less skimmate is also a positive for me. My water is cleaner and my maintenance has been reduced greatly. The Apex auto water change and Klir have made my life much easier. I like easy!

 

[S2G]

To the first part of your question... Yes. They are the latest and greatest. Filter bags should be changed every other day to prevent break down of nutrients. This requires several bags that need to be stored before being washed with bleach and then hanged to dry. In a price comparison it really boils down to how much you value your time and all the waste water to clean them.

To the second part, as mentioned they remove waste at different stages. A skimmer removes what a bag does not.

I am a firm believer if you want a healthy system it needs to be fed heavily, just like on natural reefs. Lots of food, clean water. But this can only be accomplished with a great nutrient export attack. I think most people will never get their fish to full size maturity, nor will they get them to breed because they are fed just enough to sustain their life. Employing multiple nutrient export techniques allows us to feed heavy and keep the water clean.

I am happy that I will never change or clean another filter bag again... ever. ;)

I don't agree with the idea of all they need is 2-3 bites myself. Filters socks broke me in 6m.

 

[GodZillaReef]

I think it depends on what you would like... Plenty of skimmerless tanks that look nice. I use a correct sized skimmer with filter socks. Feel each does a little bit but doesn't do too much. I also heavy broadcast feed which is when i turn off my skimmer so I think the socks collects so my sump stays cleaner for longer plus i will use a power head to blow the detritus i cant clean out. You could run a roller mat, a fuge or a skimmer Each will do the job of keeping levels within accepted reefing limits.

 

[User1]

Title says roller mat vs skimmers. They are not the same and have different use cases. Neither are actually needed although both are common. The way you should view roller mats as somewhat stated earlier is that it is a time saver. If you use filter socks or filter pads you have to swap them out or remove and clean. The roller mat runs automatically until it is out. Then you replace it.

 

[najer]

Skimmer yes, mat / socks no.
My only mechanical filtration on 550 L water volume is a skimmer.
I have a sump refugium packed with mostly cheato, after the skimmer and also a display refugium with loads of caulerpa.
I also use Sochting oxydators, the only way I can see socks and roller mats is removing particles above X micron.
I wonder how much pod life they remove every day?! ;)

 

[Daniel76]

.

 

[gregcoyote]

I don't own a roller mat, socks, filter wool or any other kind of pre filtration unless you call a skimmer pre filtration which in a way it is. I hear a lot about the latest pre filtration namely roller mat type pre filtration. Most of those who use them report a drastic if not complete lack of skimmate being produced. Just about everybody who reports this downturn in skimmate believes it is a good thing and I can see why. However, is that really the case? I ask because a skimmer as far as I know will remove stuff that perhaps a roller filter might not, I admit I don't really know am just putting it out there By stuff I mean compounds etc already dissolved in the water derived from foods not just bulk food. Roller mats are being touted as the latest and greatest, all I am asking is, is that really so and what perhaps a skimmer might remove a roller mat won't? Of course I expect those using roller mats to sing thier virtues but is there more to it than meets the eye esp scientific reports.

I can only comment from my 28 year old 300 gallon living reef that I have talked about quite a bit. Because of the quantity of life I support, the average filter sock clogged in 24 hours. I relied on a big protein skimmer and larger ATS to pick up debris. But mulm accumulated, so I went with a roller type prefilter. The theory is that by any ways practical, removing debris (prefilter) and long chain proteins (skimmer) from organic processes from the water by mechanical means is helping the ATS and the biology when cleansing the water. So I think using both makes sense.

 

[Shawn Blevins]

I really like my roller mat. It has a small bypass to allow some nutrients/ pods through it. No odor from roller mat either. My skimmer did start producing less so I believe a win win. No cleaning filter socks dumping skimate less often. Agree with earlier poster about what is your time worth when it comes to cost.

 

[Bzar]

Roller mat = constantly changing filter socks. I really don't see how their different then a filter sock you wouldn't have to change.

Fleece roller = fleece filter socks

Change out the sock daily and you have the same thing as a roller mat. The only thing different is you don't manually change out the sock, but rather the entire mat when depleted.

I certainly do not own one(I personally find them gimmicky), but would think that the rotting, decaying matter on the mat would tend to get a bit stinky after a few days?

Roller mat = rich mans filter socks.

I say rich mans, only because us normal folks just change out cheap filter socks($5 to $10 socks that are reusable) as opposed to a $200 machine, and $30 mats that have to be replaced when used and not rinsed off and reused.

Rollermats aren't to hard to diy. Built one with a food grade container, eggcrate, zip ties, some pvc, and felt from fabric store.....they can be manual or automatic with little electrical knowledge. Cost like $60 in total and the felt will last forever.

But to the OP. it shouldn't be either or imo....especially if carbon dosing.

 

[johnthehermit]

I have an X Filter, automatic fleece filter which has an adjustable bypass to let pods etc through. The 25 micron fleece lasts around 3 months or so. It doesn't smell. A deltec 1456 sc skimmer running for 12 hours a day. A large sump with a large miracle mud and macroalgae refugium swarming with life and 2 oxidator model As in my DT, they all do different jobs and complement each other. The DT is a 4x2x2, heavily stocked and quite heavily fed reef tank. I haven't needed to use any po4 remover for a couple of years. Any detritus that gets past this settles in the fuge and feeds the life in there, worms, mysids and various pods.

 

[adtravels]

I have pretty much the same system if you check my tank thread, minus the refugium. I actually think I get better quality more consistent skimmate with a roller mat than I ever did without. My sump still needs siphoning every 2 weeks. I use the 32 micron floss with the valves closed.

I have an X Filter, automatic fleece filter which has an adjustable bypass to let pods etc through. The 25 micron fleece lasts around 3 months or so. It doesn't smell. A deltec 1456 sc skimmer running for 12 hours a day. A large sump with a large miracle mud and macroalgae refugium swarming with life and 2 oxidator model As in my DT, they all do different jobs and complement each other. The DT is a 4x2x2, heavily stocked and quite heavily fed reef tank. I haven't needed to use any po4 remover for a couple of years. Any detritus that gets past this settles in the fuge and feeds the life in there, worms, mysids and various pods.

 

[All Mixed Up]

I user filter cups and a bag of filter floss from the hobby store. A handful of floss every 2-3 days, throw the used floss in the trash. A bag of floss is ~$6 and last about 3 months.

No more socks to wash, no filter roller to change, and gives me a reason to look in my sump every other day.

Not really helpful in your debate, just throwing it out that there is more than one way to do things, and not every way works for everyone.

I also run a skimmer.

 

[Mark Novack]

I use a rollermat and skimmer. I can attest that a rollermat is not a gimmick, it's awesome. It's not maintenance free but needs five minutes of attention every few weeks to remove the uptake roll mass which can expand and halt the mechanism. That has not been a problem for me.

 

[CuzzA]

Less skimmate is also a positive for me.

Yep. How many breakdown thread do we see and the top reason is they don't have the time. This hobby, albeit enjoyable, can be extremely time consuming. Between glass cleaning, fragging, cleaning, feeding, equipment maintenance, water making, turf scrubber cleaning, refugium pruning, bulb changing, I could keep going. I value my time and also the ability to leave the system for vacation and find it the way I left it when I return. Without the automation we have today I doubt I would have got back into it. Roller mats, auto water changers, auto feeders that work in conjunction with the system, skimmer neck cleaners, internet controllable solenoids, etcetera all make it possible.

But back to the roller mat and I'll be honest, that was the biggest selling point to restarting a system. It changes how much time you need to put into a system. Less skimmer cup cleanings, fewer sump clean outs, no need for a turf scrubber, no need for a refugium, no more filter bag changes and tank laundry. This one device is a huge time saver. My major tank maintenance happens once a month now. Change filter roll, make water. Filter rolls are nothing more than coolant filter paper which is very cheap if it doesn't have an aquarium manufacture label on it. The device can now be bought for $200 and I'd expect to see the price drop even more with new offerings and competition. Plus the Chinese haven't stole anyone's design yet.

I'll add that while Julian's tank is very nice, he states in the video he has to really stay on top of it, plus it appears most of the inhabitants in his biotype are more dirtier water corals and gorgonians.