Saltmix Parameters bring on the test results

[powdertang05]

I always felt like if i used IO i was being a jerk to my fish. Learn something new everyday. I guess i'm switching to IO.

 

[jason2459]

Keep in mind many don't like the higher Alk of IO. I have in the past when my tank alkalinity is higher then I desire for one reason or another I will add some muriatic acid to my saltmix to lower the alkalinity of the new IO water change water which slowly brings down my tank alkalinity with out adjusting my normal limewater dosing.

 

[gettaReef]

Keep in mind many don't like the higher Alk of IO. I have in the past when my tank alkalinity is higher then I desire for one reason or another I will add some muriatic acid to my saltmix to lower the alkalinity of the new IO water change water which slowly brings down my tank alkalinity with out adjusting my normal limewater dosing.

A few questions:

If you had the desire to keep your tank at a lower Alk, wouldn't it be preferable to just change to a salt that produces a lower Alk level, compared to using IO salt mix (that needs to have something added to it every batch you make to lower the Alk)? How long did you continue to use IO after you began to keep your system at a lower Alk?

I always wondered what needed to be added to freshly made saltwater to lower the Alk to a desired level and am a little stunned that that additive is muriatic acid (!!). (Note: I have no doubt that you know what you're doing, I am just stating that I am surprised). This does not affect any livestock when adding muriatic acid to your saltmix? Is this the best (or only) additive to use to lower freshly made saltwater's Alk?


Also, what is the ratio of muriatic acid to fresh saltwater to add/dose to decrease the saltwater Alk to the desired Alk level?

And lastly, I have used IORC since I have gotten into the hobby and am interested in switching to just IO; does IO leave the same residue to the mixing barrel that IORC does?

Thank you! I appreciate any information you can share!

 

[jason2459]

A few questions:

If you had the desire to keep your tank at a lower Alk, wouldn't it be preferable to just change to a salt that produces a lower Alk level, compared to using IO salt mix (that needs to have something added to it every batch you make to lower the Alk)? How long did you continue to use IO after you began to keep your system at a lower Alk?

I always wondered what needed to be added to freshly made saltwater to lower the Alk to a desired level and am a little stunned that that additive is muriatic acid (!!). (Note: I have no doubt that you know what you're doing, I am just stating that I am surprised). This does not affect any livestock when adding muriatic acid to your saltmix? Is this the best (or only) additive to use to lower freshly made saltwater's Alk?


Also, what is the ratio of muriatic acid to fresh saltwater to add/dose to decrease the saltwater Alk to the desired Alk level?

And lastly, I have used IORC since I have gotten into the hobby and am interested in switching to just IO; does IO leave the same residue to the mixing barrel that IORC does?

Thank you! I appreciate any information you can share!

I'd rather just keep using IO as it normally maintains my alkalinity at acceptable levels. I'd rather have a saltmix that provides slightly higher Alkalinity levels then where my tank is at so my tank is maintained there. Guess you can say it's part of my calcium and alkalinity dosing. Old water is removed at slightly lower alkalinity levels and replaced with water at slightly higher alkalinity levels.

Only when something happens and my alkalinity is higher then desired will I lower the alkalinity of the saltmix instead of switching salts. I see no reason to spend more money on a saltmix when IO is perfectly fine for me.

Muriatic acid does need to be handled carefully but once mixed into the new saltwater is of no more harm to self or fish.

Adding 1/11,000 of the water volume as muriatic acid will drop alkalinity by 1 meq/l (2.8 dKH)

Over time most all salts will create a build up on the sides of it's mixing container. I do agree IORC does so much quicker. I have some now on my container after a few years of use. But not like I did when I first started out and used IORC which happened very quickly. I stopped using IORC only because the organics in it did not do well with being stored as I've always had new saltmix stored and on hand. Regular IO does not have any significant organics in it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

A few questions:

If you had the desire to keep your tank at a lower Alk, wouldn't it be preferable to just change to a salt that produces a lower Alk level, compared to using IO salt mix (that needs to have something added to it every batch you make to lower the Alk)? How long did you continue to use IO after you began to keep your system at a lower Alk?

I always wondered what needed to be added to freshly made saltwater to lower the Alk to a desired level and am a little stunned that that additive is muriatic acid (!!). (Note: I have no doubt that you know what you're doing, I am just stating that I am surprised). This does not affect any livestock when adding muriatic acid to your saltmix? Is this the best (or only) additive to use to lower freshly made saltwater's Alk?


Also, what is the ratio of muriatic acid to fresh saltwater to add/dose to decrease the saltwater Alk to the desired Alk level?

And lastly, I have used IORC since I have gotten into the hobby and am interested in switching to just IO; does IO leave the same residue to the mixing barrel that IORC does?

Thank you! I appreciate any information you can share!

While many people agonize over this, IMO, it is not true that there's necessarily any issue using a salt mix with higher (or lower ) alk than your tank, especially if you do small water changes as opposed to large ones.

If the tank is 8 dKH and the new salt water is 12 dKH, a 5% change only boosts the alk to 8.2 dKH.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Here's a calculation I did for someone else:

Be very careful with straight muriatic acid. It can easily burn you, especially your eyes.

The "acidity" (that being essentially negative alkalinity) of muriatic acid straight from the bottle is about 11,000 meq/L.

So adding 1/11,000 of the water volume as this acid will drop alkalinity by 1 meq/l (2.8 dKH).

If you want a drop of 13-7 = 6 dKH, or 2.1 times that amount, you'd add 1/5,100th of the water volume.

13 gallons ~ 49 L

1/5100 of 49 L = 9.6 mL

So I'd add 5 ml and stir well for a few minutes and see what alkalinity you get. Then dose again assuming it seems on the right track.

You'll need to aerate well after adding the acid to blow off the excess CO2 and bring up the pH.

 

[jason2459]

I will add it's also my way of dosing Mg. I do add about 4 oz of Mg to my new saltmix which has been maintaining my Mg in my tank at around 1300 mg/L. I also see no reason to switch to a more expensive saltmix with higher Mg when bulk Mg sulfate/chloride is cheap to get and add.

Some people will go with a different mix due to those parameters which is what this thread is about. Getting an idea of what all these parameters are to be expected at and make those decisions. Some people will mix salt mixes together to get a middle ground. IO and Oceanic added together was a classic mix.

 

[gettaReef]

Thank you both for the info, using muriatic acid to lower the Alk in my waterchange saltwater will work perfect for my purposes; I plan to do this, as Randy was alluding to, only once per year when I perform a 50% or more waterchange on my system, and not the smaller biweekly waterchanges. Thanks again

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you both for the info, using muriatic acid to lower the Alk in my waterchange saltwater will work perfect for my purposes; I plan to do this, as Randy was alluding to, only once per year when I perform a 50% or more waterchange on my system, and not the smaller biweekly waterchanges. Thanks again

Someone I know who did this saw absolutely no deposits from normal IO (which are typically calcium carbonate), presumably from the low pH and lower alkalinity.

 

[VJV]

Thank you both for the info, using muriatic acid to lower the Alk in my waterchange saltwater will work perfect for my purposes; I plan to do this, as Randy was alluding to, only once per year when I perform a 50% or more waterchange on my system, and not the smaller biweekly waterchanges. Thanks again

Maybe you have addressed this before but... why not just use a high quality salt such as Tropic Marin Pro Reef with 7-8dKH and avoid all this trouble (and potential health risks)?

 

[jason2459]

Maybe you have addressed this before but... why not just use a high quality salt such as Tropic Marin Pro Reef with 7-8dKH and avoid all this trouble (and potential health risks)?

Why do you believe IO is a low quality salt?

There are also other salts with lower alk as well. Redsea blue bucket for instance.

I actually like tropic marine and is a fine saltmix but to me its cost is not worth it. To others it certainly seems to be.

 

[dz6t]

In this hobby, price does not correspond to quality.
IO salt is just as good as other higher priced salt.

 

[Orcus Varuna]

I never understand why everyone freaks out over the dKH of salt mixes. In the grand scheme of my system (65 gallons twv) even my weekly 8 gallon water change (with IO) only raises dKH by about 0.3. Or in other words about the same as each of my 6 daily doses of soda ash raise dKH. FWIW I usually run my system between 6.8-7.8 dKH

I just can not justify spending $40-60 more on salt then IO typically costs me. Only time I stray from IO is when I catch a great deal at my lfs. Usually on holidays I can pick up Pro Reef or Coral Pro for $50. Being in FL, IO tends brick from the humidity where as RSCP and TMPR do not. Being that I'm not too fond of using a hammer and chisel I will gladly pay a $15 premium for the "good" salts but definitely not $40+

 

[DMan]

For the most part used IO and switched to Reef Crystals as demand grew. I used other "high end" brands and it was never about the money. It came down to consistenly being able to get IORC. I'd use Tropic Marine and then the LFS all of a sudden wasn't getting any more for whatever reason. Most likely supply. When I need IORC it is always there.

I do appretiate the testing and posting of results everyone does.

 

[Mjl714]

Great read, thanks for this information.

 

[Bayinaung]

This is an awesome effort by OP and others in contributing to this discussion. Thank you for this. Would it be possible for OP to share the spreadsheet in google sheets with the rest of us? Simple lock the sheet from being edited by others. It would be a wonderful reference sheet.

Thanks again!

 

[Katrina71]

@Justin..GO DAWGS!!

 

[Justin....#JAMAS]

@Justin..GO DAWGS!!

thanks