Second New DIY Two Part Recipe with Higher pH Boost

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

hey randy i have a question regarding potency of the sodium hydroxide (recipe 1) in comparison to brs 2 part soda ash.

i currently dose 140ml of brs soda ash daily to maintain 8dkh. how much will i be required to dose in sodium hydroxide (283 grams of sodium hydroxide in 1gal of rodi) ?

my calculation is coming up to the same amount am i correct?

also will it be more beneficial to use calcium hydroxide as cal source and sodium hydroxide as alk source or does calcium hydroxide raises both alk and cal? and if yes to raising both whats the alk raisabilty of kalk? maybe use both in combination if alk can be maintained by both sides without causing a spike.

BRS uses my DIY baked baking soda/sodium carbonate/soda ash recipe, and since this hydroxide recipe is designed to match that one in potency, you should use the same volume as the starting point. The higher pH may boost demand, and thus you may need to dose a bit more.

Calcium hydroxide dissolves a little bit to make kalkwasser (a perfectly fine alk and calcium additive), but it is very weak. It’s fine to use it, but it cannot be mixed into this recipe.

 

[MartinM]

In a previous thread, I posted a true two part DIY recipe:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-diy-two-part-recipes-with-higher-ph-boost.344500/

But some folks may want to just swap the new ingredient into my 2/3 part recipe (as used by BRS, for example).

Here's the original recipe link (which has a lot more discussion on the details and rationale):

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

The new recipe is shown below. It has about twice the pH boost of the original recipe (#1) and should be added to a very high flow area. Initial cloudiness (magnesium hydroxide) is expected, but it should disperse and dissolve. If not, stop using it and figure out why.

Alk part

Add 283 grams of sodium hydroxide to 1 gallon of fresh water. It will get quite warm. Make sure it doesn't soften your container. This solution will contain about 1,900 meq/L of alkalinity (5,300 dKH). BE CAREFUL WITH THIS SOLUTION: IT HAS A pH ABOVE 14. Do not get it in your eyes or on your skin.

Calcium part

Dissolve 500 grams (about 2 ½ cups) of calcium chloride dihydrate (such as Dowflake 77-80% calcium chloride or ESV calcium chloride; see below for substitutes and sources) in enough water to make 1 gallon of total volume. You can dissolve it in about ½ gallon of water, and then pour that into the 1 gallon container and fill it to the top with more freshwater. This solution has about 37,000 ppm calcium.

Magnesium part

Dissolve Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate heptahydrate (3 cups) and magnesium chloride hexahydrate (5 cups) in enough purified freshwater to make 1 gallon total volume. There will likely be a precipitate that forms even if you fully dissolve both ingredients separately. That precipitate is calcium sulfate (calcium as an impurity in the magnesium chloride and sulfate from the Epsom salts). It is fine and appropriate to dose the precipitate along with the remainder of the fluid by shaking it up before dosing.

This solution is added much less frequently or in lower volume than the other two parts. Add 16% as much as the other two parts. Over the time you add 1 gallon of the others, 1 add 610 mL (2 ½ cups) of this solution. You can add it all at once or, preferably, over time as you choose, depending on the aquarium's size and set up. Add it to a high flow area, preferably a sump. In a very small aquarium, or one without a sump, I suggest adding it slowly.

Why use metric for the weight but imperial for the volume? . Do I need to be accurate down to the milliliter when converting gallons to liters to make this?

 

[Miami Reef]

Why use metric for the weight but imperial for the volume? . Do I need to be accurate down to the milliliter when converting gallons to liters to make this?

74.8g hydroxide/L. Is that what you are asking for?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Why use metric for the weight but imperial for the volume? . Do I need to be accurate down to the milliliter when converting gallons to liters to make this?

I do not use imperial for anything. I use US gallons for liquid volume because many people in the US have 1 gallon plastic milk jugs to make the recipes in. I use US cups for solids volume because nearly every home in the US has a measuring cup.

Chemical recipes must ultimately derive from mass based units, such as grams, which all chemists use for chemistry because that is how one understands how many molecules are being used. Grams are provided in all of my recipes for convenience, but are not required since not everyone has a scale. You just need some understanding of the mass per volume of products you are using if you choose to use dry volume, and I have endeavored to provide it in most cases.

 

[becon776]

hey randy i have a question regarding potency of the sodium hydroxide (recipe 1) in comparison to brs 2 part soda ash.

i currently dose 140ml of brs soda ash daily to maintain 8dkh. how much will i be required to dose in sodium hydroxide (283 grams of sodium hydroxide in 1gal of rodi) ?

my calculation is coming up to the same amount am i correct?

also will it be more beneficial to use calcium hydroxide as cal source and sodium hydroxide as alk source or does calcium hydroxide raises both alk and cal? and if yes to raising both whats the alk raisabilty of kalk? maybe use both in combination if alk can be maintained by both sides without causing a spike.

I have found thru using a co2 scrubber that when pH goes goes up so does demand for alkalinity, calcium. And growth

 

[mattgsa]

I was wondering, I have been using this solution for weeks now, and lately, I have started getting this white build-up on the front glass, and I was wondering if it is due to the solution. I can scrap it off, but it comes back in just a matter of hours. Here is a picture.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It sounds like a precipitate of calcium carbonate. Is it everywhere, or just near the dosing location?

Hie high is the pH?

 

[Lionfish hunter]

I

In a previous thread, I posted a true two part DIY recipe:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-diy-two-part-recipes-with-higher-ph-boost.344500/

But some folks may want to just swap the new ingredient into my 2/3 part recipe (as used by BRS, for example).

Here's the original recipe link (which has a lot more discussion on the details and rationale):

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

The new recipe is shown below. It has about twice the pH boost of the original recipe (#1) and should be added to a very high flow area. Initial cloudiness (magnesium hydroxide) is expected, but it should disperse and dissolve. If not, stop using it and figure out why.

Alk part

Add 283 grams of sodium hydroxide to 1 gallon of fresh water. It will get quite warm. Make sure it doesn't soften your container. This solution will contain about 1,900 meq/L of alkalinity (5,300 dKH). BE CAREFUL WITH THIS SOLUTION: IT HAS A pH ABOVE 14. Do not get it in your eyes or on your skin.

Calcium part

Dissolve 500 grams (about 2 ½ cups) of calcium chloride dihydrate (such as Dowflake 77-80% calcium chloride or ESV calcium chloride; see below for substitutes and sources) in enough water to make 1 gallon of total volume. You can dissolve it in about ½ gallon of water, and then pour that into the 1 gallon container and fill it to the top with more freshwater. This solution has about 37,000 ppm calcium.

Magnesium part

Dissolve Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate heptahydrate (3 cups) and magnesium chloride hexahydrate (5 cups) in enough purified freshwater to make 1 gallon total volume. There will likely be a precipitate that forms even if you fully dissolve both ingredients separately. That precipitate is calcium sulfate (calcium as an impurity in the magnesium chloride and sulfate from the Epsom salts). It is fine and appropriate to dose the precipitate along with the remainder of the fluid by shaking it up before dosing.

This solution is added much less frequently or in lower volume than the other two parts. Add 16% as much as the other two parts. Over the time you add 1 gallon of the others, 1 add 610 mL (2 ½ cups) of this solution. You can add it all at once or, preferably, over time as you choose, depending on the aquarium's size and set up. Add it to a high flow area, preferably a sump. In a very small aquarium, or one without a sump, I suggest adding it slowly.

I’m looking to use this for a ph boost. I’m assuming the ph boost comes from the alkalinity part and using a different calcium part will not change the ph boost of the 2 part?

 

[Lionfish hunter]

In a previous thread, I posted a true two part DIY recipe:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-diy-two-part-recipes-with-higher-ph-boost.344500/

But some folks may want to just swap the new ingredient into my 2/3 part recipe (as used by BRS, for example).

Here's the original recipe link (which has a lot more discussion on the details and rationale):

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

The new recipe is shown below. It has about twice the pH boost of the original recipe (#1) and should be added to a very high flow area. Initial cloudiness (magnesium hydroxide) is expected, but it should disperse and dissolve. If not, stop using it and figure out why.

Alk part

Add 283 grams of sodium hydroxide to 1 gallon of fresh water. It will get quite warm. Make sure it doesn't soften your container. This solution will contain about 1,900 meq/L of alkalinity (5,300 dKH). BE CAREFUL WITH THIS SOLUTION: IT HAS A pH ABOVE 14. Do not get it in your eyes or on your skin.

Calcium part

Dissolve 500 grams (about 2 ½ cups) of calcium chloride dihydrate (such as Dowflake 77-80% calcium chloride or ESV calcium chloride; see below for substitutes and sources) in enough water to make 1 gallon of total volume. You can dissolve it in about ½ gallon of water, and then pour that into the 1 gallon container and fill it to the top with more freshwater. This solution has about 37,000 ppm calcium.

Magnesium part

Dissolve Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate heptahydrate (3 cups) and magnesium chloride hexahydrate (5 cups) in enough purified freshwater to make 1 gallon total volume. There will likely be a precipitate that forms even if you fully dissolve both ingredients separately. That precipitate is calcium sulfate (calcium as an impurity in the magnesium chloride and sulfate from the Epsom salts). It is fine and appropriate to dose the precipitate along with the remainder of the fluid by shaking it up before dosing.

This solution is added much less frequently or in lower volume than the other two parts. Add 16% as much as the other two parts. Over the time you add 1 gallon of the others, 1 add 610 mL (2 ½ cups) of this solution. You can add it all at once or, preferably, over time as you choose, depending on the aquarium's size and set up. Add it to a high flow area, preferably a sump. In a very small aquarium, or one without a sump, I suggest adding it slowly.

My plan is to mix up food grade sodium hydroxide I bought off amazon according to your recipe. Then mix up brs calcium chloride, 500 grams per gallon? And lastly mix up tropic marin trace elements and magnesium according to the diy tropic marin recipe, I will just leave out the calcium/alk additive (I currently dose all for reef and am very pleased with my trace element levels per icp). Dosing pumps for alk and calcium, hand dose the trace elements every week or so at the same rate I would have dosed all for reef for the given alk demand. Does all that sound right to you? I would hate to screw this up and cause a disaster.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I
I’m looking to use this for a ph boost. I’m assuming the ph boost comes from the alkalinity part and using a different calcium part will not change the ph boost of the 2 part?

That's correct, as long as it is not something unusual, such as calcium acetate.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My plan is to mix up food grade sodium hydroxide I bought off amazon according to your recipe. Then mix up brs calcium chloride, 500 grams per gallon? And lastly mix up tropic marin trace elements and magnesium according to the diy tropic marin recipe, I will just leave out the calcium/alk additive (I currently dose all for reef and am very pleased with my trace element levels per icp). Dosing pumps for alk and calcium, hand dose the trace elements every week or so at the same rate I would have dosed all for reef for the given alk demand. Does all that sound right to you? I would hate to screw this up and cause a disaster.

I think it is more complicated than just adding what you "need". All two part systems raise salinity, and when corrected back to normal, that tends to push everything down a little bit. Over time this becomes significant for ions such as sulfate, potassium, etc.

Either use my DIY part 3, or better yet, using Balling Part C. Both contain a lot of magneisum and so swap out your current magnesium plan.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

I think it is more complicated than just adding what you "need". All two part systems raise salinity, and when corrected back to normal, that tends to push everything down a little bit. Over time this becomes significant for ions such as sulfate, potassium, etc.

Either use my DIY part 3, or better yet, using Balling Part C. Both contain a lot of magneisum and so swap out your current magnesium plan.

Instead of adding the balling c as a 3rd part. Is there any issues with just adding the amount of balling c I would have dosed for the week into the water for my water change? Basically dose my new salt water with what would have gone into the tank since the previous water change. And make the salinity of the new water 35 ppt after adding the necessary amount of balling part c? And I can add tropic Marin k trace elements to the alkalinity part correct without anything precipitating out?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Instead of adding the balling c as a 3rd part. Is there any issues with just adding the amount of balling c I would have dosed for the week into the water for my water change? Basically dose my new salt water with what would have gone into the tank since the previous water change. And make the salinity of the new water 35 ppt after adding the necessary amount of balling part c? And I can add tropic Marin k trace elements to the alkalinity part correct without anything precipitating out?

I think adding part C into new salt water is likely fine, but if you see new cloudiness, it isn’t. lol

I would try Tropic Marin K+ in the calcium part, not the alk part. Ions like iron are less soluble at high pH. Again, look for cloudiness as a bad sign.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

I think adding part C into new salt water is likely fine, but if you see new cloudiness, it isn’t. lol

I would try Tropic Marin K+ in the calcium part, not the alk part. Ions like iron are less soluble at high pH. Again, look for cloudiness as a bad sign.

okay I’ll try k in the calcium and A in the alk, thanks.

 

[Muffin87]

Dear @Randy Holmes-Farley, you are my only hope.
I need your advice adding a trace element additive from Triton to your recipe. I've emailed them twice about this... years apart, and let's just say they haven't been helpful.

This page on the Triton website says the Triton method can be run using ANY 2 part by adding the Triton Infusion additive to the Calcium Chloride solution.
This infusion additive is basically just trace elements (Iodine, Manganese, Vanadium, zinc), plus their chelators, and does NOT contain macro elements (Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium, Sulfur, Bromide, etc.)
According to Triton's own recipe, you'd dissolve 715 gr CaCl2 in 10L RO/DI, then add 100 ml of the Triton Infusion additive.

Here's my problem:
In comparison to Triton's recipe, the calcium solution of your recipe is 1.846x times more concentrated.
Essentially, 1320 gr of CaCl2 dissolved in 10L RO/DI. To which I would need to add 184,6 ml of Triton Infusion Additive.

Do you envision any problems adding trace elements and chelators to the Calcium Part at the higher concentration of your recipe?
The Infusion additive does not contain any macro elements, so no sulfur. So I'd assume there wouldn't be any calcium sulfate precipitation.
If I don't see any precipitation in the form of white particulate, can I assume the increased concentration isn't an issue?

Thanks a lot for this!

 

[becon776]

Ok so just mixed up my 283g of sodium hydroxide and will stay with brs Ca for now as have some left over.
just to be sure (monster thread) i can stay with basically the same dosing amounts. I do understand that if pH increases then alk consumption may also increase which is all for the good. I just want to make sure that affect in alkalinity is about the same between BRS alk part is about the same.

 

[Miami Reef]

Ok so just mixed up my 283g of sodium hydroxide and will stay with brs Ca for now as have some left over.
just to be sure (monster thread) i can stay with basically the same dosing amounts. I do understand that if pH increases then alk consumption may also increase which is all for the good. I just want to make sure that affect in alkalinity is about the same between BRS alk part is about the same.

Which alk part from BRS did you use? If it was Soda Ash, it would be the exact dosage as the hydroxide recipe to maintain your current alkalinity. Still, as you said, demand might increase because of the higher pH effect.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Do you envision any problems adding trace elements and chelators to the Calcium Part at the higher concentration of your recipe?
The Infusion additive does not contain any macro elements, so no sulfur. So I'd assume there wouldn't be any calcium sulfate precipitation.
If I don't see any precipitation in the form of white particulate, can I assume the increased concentration isn't an issue?

I don't see a reason to be concerned if you see no sudden precipitation.

 

[becon776]

The whole process is so trippy. And wisdom gleaned from hard lessons over 2 decades of reefkeeping.
the fine line that is walked. If you can just get some way to get pH up. Alk demand goes up therefore your all addition goes up which further pushes pH up. At some point you find that magical line. But boy when your first starting out or have a new build man even a veteran can struggle to find it. For me I had to do co2 scrubbing to light that fuse. Hoping this new NaOH. Assists with keeping on that line

 

[becon776]

Ok guys proof in pudding the left side of graph is WITH pH scrubbing recirculating thru skimmer. Right side is after changing to this recipe for ALK and using BRS (leftover) for Ca part