Semi-emergency... Velvet, Cupramine and moyeri leopard wrasse.

[Velcro]

Hi,
I added a yellow tang to my tank a week or so ago and fish went from fast breathing to covered in white in a day over the weekend. My guess would be velvet. I have moved all fish to hospital tank. I am not able to locally source copper safe. All my LFS has is cupramine. Chloroquine MIGHT be an option if I can source today (I have a potential source), though the leopard wrasse still would need to be separated and treated with copper safe from my understanding.

Is cupramine an absolute no for wrasses? If it is OKAY, should I worry about raising it slower than just the typical instant therapeutic level for velvet?

I should not that I did a freshwater bath on the tangs prior to moving to hospital, and added furan-2 to the hospital tank to prevent secondary infection.

 

[Josh Kraft]

Is there a local reef club in your area that you could ask if anyone has copper safe?

Also, I think most people will recommend copper power over copper safe these days. Which is even harder to get than copper safe (online only iirc).

With velvet, you don't have much time to act, so I would get copper power asap. If you have to go online, copper power 4 oz is amazon prime, but 16 oz is not.

In the meantime, you can do FW dips followed by acriflavine baths until you get your meds.

 

[Velcro]

Is there a local reef club in your area that you could ask if anyone has copper safe?

Also, I think most people will recommend copper power over copper safe these days. Which is even harder to get than copper safe (online only iirc).

With velvet, you don't have much time to act, so I would get copper power asap. If you have to go online, copper power 4 oz is amazon prime, but 16 oz is not.

In the meantime, you can do FW dips followed by acriflavine baths until you get your meds.

Will paraguard baths after the FW dip suffice?

 

[Brew12]

Hi,
I added a yellow tang to my tank a week or so ago and fish went from fast breathing to covered in white in a day over the weekend. My guess would be velvet. I have moved all fish to hospital tank. I am not able to locally source copper safe. All my LFS has is cupramine. Chloroquine MIGHT be an option if I can source today (I have a potential source), though the leopard wrasse still would need to be separated and treated with copper safe from my understanding.

Is cupramine an absolute no for wrasses? If it is OKAY, should I worry about raising it slower than just the typical instant therapeutic level for velvet?

I should not that I did a freshwater bath on the tangs prior to moving to hospital, and added furan-2 to the hospital tank to prevent secondary infection.

Actually, Cupramine would be preferred over Copper Safe for a Leopard Wrasse.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-and-treatment-guidelines-with-chart.283450/

Edit: ooops... looked at the wrong column... .Copper Safe would be preferred but Cupramine can work. Just ramp it up as slow as possible and try to stay on the low end of therapeutic.

 

[Velcro]

Actually, Cupramine would be preferred over Copper Safe for a Leopard Wrasse.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-and-treatment-guidelines-with-chart.283450/

Edit: ooops... looked at the wrong column... .Copper Safe would be preferred but Cupramine can work. Just ramp it up as slow as possible and try to stay on the low end of therapeutic.

Wrasse wasn't showing any signs so I'm just doing FW dip and paraguard bath on the two tangs (they are the only things showing stress, clowns, decorated goby and leopard seem fine) and I'll overnight some copper.

 

[Velcro]

Here are the tangs in the paraguard bath post-FW dip.

 

[Velcro]

Tangs are pretty lethargic after the bath. Yellow has been the same since this morning. Basically in it's side breathing heavy. Kole seems a bit better than the yellow but somewhat more lethargic than this morning. Not sure they will make it.



Ordered copper power next day from Amazon. I'll have it held at local UPS so I can pick it up first thing tomorrow morning. Can't imagine I can do much else until then.

 

[HotRocks]

Wrasse wasn't showing any signs so I'm just doing FW dip and paraguard bath on the two tangs (they are the only things showing stress, clowns, decorated goby and leopard seem fine) and I'll overnight some copper.

Due to the thick mucus coat wrasse have, rarely would they show signs. If your tank is infected with velvet you will want to treat all fish in QT. Otherwise there is a very good chance when you reintroduce your fish back after treatment they will become re-infected. You will want to let your DT fallow for 6weeks if velvet. Ich requires 76 days.

 

[Velcro]

Due to the thick mucus coat wrasse have, rarely would they show signs. If your tank is infected with velvet you will want to treat all fish in QT. Otherwise there is a very good chance when you reintroduce your fish back after treatment they will become re-infected. You will want to let your DT fallow for 6weeks if velvet. Ich requires 76 days.

All fish are in a hospital tank right now. I'm just FW dipping the ones that look stressed.

 

[Big G]

Humblefish has found that following the Freshwater Dip, if you give the fish a bath in acriflavine product like Acriflavine MS or Ruby Reef Rally, the survival rates greatly increase. I like RRR. It has both an antiseptic and antibiotic quality that really helps fish in distress to fight off bacterial disease from the parasite's wounds.
And +1 on the Cupramine as @Brew12 suggested. However, instead of the two big doses, doing smaller regular doses (every couple of hours) until you reach the lower edge of therapeutic range is a very good plan. Another plus with the smaller doses, you can observe for a copper sensitive fish.

 

[Velcro]

Humblefish has found that following the Freshwater Dip, if you give the fish a bath in acriflavine product like Acriflavine MS or Ruby Reef Rally, the survival rates greatly increase. I like RRR. It has both an antiseptic and antibiotic quality that really helps fish in distress to fight off bacterial disease from the parasite's wounds.
And +1 on the Cupramine as @Brew12 suggested. However, instead of the two big doses, doing smaller regular doses (every couple of hours) until you reach the lower edge of therapeutic range is a very good plan. Another plus with the smaller doses, you can observe for a copper sensitive fish.

So would you wait til tomorrow for the copper boost for the leopard wrasse's sake or dose cupramine?

 

[Big G]

Time is not your friend. Velvet reproduces almost exponentially and is relentless. The damage unseen to the fish's gills can reach a point of no return.
Freshwater Dip will rid the gills especially of some of the parasites. Immediately follow with RRR. And then copper. ASAP.

 

[Velcro]

Time is not your friend. Velvet reproduces almost exponentially and is relentless. The damage unseen to the fish's gills can reach a point of no return.
Freshwater Dip will rid the gills especially of some of the parasites. Immediately follow with RRR. And then copper. ASAP.

Would it be smart to get halfway to therapeutic with the cupramine for now then do a large water change tomorrow and change over to copper boost?

 

[Velcro]

Would it be smart to get halfway to therapeutic with the cupramine for now then do a large water change tomorrow and change over to copper boost?

Bumping... should I dose cupramine at low level until I'm able to do full copper power tomorrow morning?

 

[Brew12]

Bumping... should I dose cupramine at low level until I'm able to do full copper power tomorrow morning?

If you aren't seeing symptoms like rapid breathing, personally I would wait. How long ago did they get transferred to the QT?

 

[Velcro]

If you aren't seeing symptoms like rapid breathing, personally I would wait. How long ago did they get transferred to the QT?

Tangs are definitely looking rough. Going between laying on their side with rapid breathing then swimming around a little bit... rinse and repeat.

 

[Brew12]

Tangs are definitely looking rough. Going between laying on their side with rapid breathing then swimming around a little bit... rinse and repeat.

If they have been in the QT for less than 24 hours I would wait. If it has been more than 24 hours I would treat at a low level.

Remember, the copper won't do anything to help with the current gill damage issues. It is to prevent re-infection. You transferred them away from the previous generation of Velvet so that will help. You want to get copper in the water before the next batch can hatch.

 

[Velcro]

They will have been in QT for about 36 hour tomorrow morning with first dose of copper power. I will wait

 

[Brew12]

They will have been in QT for about 36 hour tomorrow morning with first dose of copper power. I will wait

If you are a glutton for punishment you can move the fish to a bucket with the current QT water and disinfect everything but the HOB filter (assuming your QT is using one). Even better if you can disinfect the HOB and seed a new sponge with something like Biospira. This would effectively act like a transfer and help protect your fish for another 36+ hours as you ramp copper up.

I realize it is a lot of work, but it is a good option imo.

Edit: I'm leaving out a lot of necessary info today for some reason. Glad for the edit feature! I meant to do this at the 36 hour point, not right now. Or as late today as you can if tomorrow isn't an option.

 

[Velcro]

Started copper this morning. Yellow tang is swimming around, but has some red spots and also what appears to be a pretty aggressive fin rot.

I have furan-2 in this hospital tank since the beginning, and I did a fw dip followed by a paraguard bath yesterday.

Any thoughts?